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#606836 - 07/17/20 06:31 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Guitarhacker]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9526
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
As I mentioned there is much more to it than that ... at least for me. High end aids can be programmed in multiple ways to help you. Multi-band eq and compression, the left and right aid communicating via bluetooth, the ability to analyze the sonic environment and adapt and phone apps to let you change the program as needed. Only you know what sounds "right" and that requires communicating with an audiologist beyond simply boosting some high f and leaving it at that. A lot of audiologists tend to focus on manipulating variables that relates to speech. That's fine. But I need to hear a ride, a high hat, a kick drum kick, vocal sibilance, the ring of a snare, squeaks on an acoustic guitar, etc.

Pardon the ramble...it's just that my audiologist literally changed my life. I suspect my loss is greater than yours so I can likely be ignored smile

Bud


What aids are you using and what was the cost? I have high freq loss in the 4k range....and tinnitus in that same range. Sounds like crickets. I've never been bothered by the tinnitus. But it does mask the highs. I find I have to pay attention to my mixes lest they become too crispy on the top end for normal listeners.

Too many really, really loud bands, and gunfire without using the proper protections.

I just ordered a set of Axil buds..... good noise reduction and enhancement to 6x as well as bluetooth music from the phone. Can run either of the 3 modes or any combination. Figured I'd give it a try.


The brand is Oticon. The brand on high end aids is not IMO as important as having an audiologist work with you to program them and change the programs when needed. They are expensive, yes, but that frequent consultation has to be factored in. BTW, I have tinnitus also. Mine is a 6-8k “teapot” sound and is a function of target practice many years ago, 60’s festivals/concerts and small engine equipment.

Oh, my audiologist limits me to 80 dB exposure. So no live music. I have a phone app to check db’s when listening to music, etc. She says it’s to keep what I’ve got smile

Bud

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#607274 - 07/20/20 06:03 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7790
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
rockstar_not Offline
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Posts: 7790
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Bob,

Just so you know I'm not blowing smoke - I worked for Westone labs for 5 years. I ran the hearing protection product line business the last 2. Westone is one of the largest suppliers to the hearing aid industry with custom fit earpieces and audiology supplies. They also invented in-ear monitors, designed and manufactured the first models of in-ear monitors by Shure and Ultimate Ears.

If you have a good set of closed back headphones, I can almost assure you the method I will take you through will give you significantly more satisfaction listening to music than through your hearing aids. If you have a good set of in-ear monitors, it will be even better.

Our comptroller had a significant mis-matched hearing loss (significantly different losses left vs. right ear). I did this for him for several of his favorite CDs (I re-recorded them going through the 'upside down HL curve EQ sets' that I created from his HL curves.

He did not have a DAW, though I showed him how to set everything up in Tracktion - the only truly free DAW at the time - so that he could go through his CD collection and re-record his collection specifically for headphone listening for him.

He loved it - said it moved him to tears. It's a lot of work to get it tweaked in, but if you understand how to use a graphic EQ and have a DAW that will let you apply separate right and left graphic EQs in series, it can be very worth it.

This is a technique that you will use WITHOUT your hearing aids. Unfortunately even very high end models do not have the processing power dedicated to music (even though you probably have several 'programs' for music listening) nor fidelity in the speakers used, to give satisfaction listening to music.

I will do this for free, if you would like. Send me a PM

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#607312 - 07/21/20 04:21 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 916
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 916
Loc: UK
wow, thanks Rockstar and Janice and Bud. I'm still awaiting my next consultation when i'll find exactly what my hearing aids are programmed for.

good news is that they are Oticon like Bud's although being National Health Service ones they may be lower spec.

I'll be in touch once i know more about the aids Rockstar but i'm overwhelmed by the support i'm getting.

just a quick update re Bud's comments. i soloed a realdrums track and listened without hearing aids. the high hat was there and so were the cymbals, but with the aids the high hat was better balanced - more volume but not excessive and the cymbals more vibrant.

with all the help i'm getting i'm beginning to feel a lot happier and less anxious. thanks guys!

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#607398 - 07/21/20 04:40 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7790
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7790
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Bob, any of the major hearing aid companies the NHS will have will have similar capabilities. This includes all the Scandinavian, German and Swiss based companies, and Starkey from the USA.

In order for me to do what I'm speaking of, get your Hearing Loss curves for each ear. HL curves for short.

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#608337 - 07/28/20 07:02 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 916
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 916
Loc: UK
I had my consultation with the audiologist today. I asked some basic questions but in essence these digital hearing aids have been programmed to boost the frequencies where my hearing is affected with the appropriate db boost for the different frequency bands. Each ear is programmed separately.

Basically, the audiologist says when i listen to music i will be hearing near enough what a normally hearing person hears.

As my hearing loss is mild to moderate the aids are not programmed too drastically. Apparently the big problem with aids and music is that when aids need to accommodate more severe hearing loss they can assume part of the music in some frequencies is background noise and suppress it - hence the need some times for a music setting. I don't need that as the problem won't arise.

I have to say that now i'm used to the hearing aids commercial tracks sound better - crisper but not over bright and with things such as high hats more to the fore rather than lost. My own mixes too sound better but as good as the mixes are they don't make up for lack of talent.

My biggest problem is my lack of musical ability not my ears. However thank you to everyone who posted advice and helped me through a worrying period. Thank you all not just for the technical advice but the friendliness and concern from all of you.

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#619171 - 10/15/20 09:45 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 916
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
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Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 916
Loc: UK
I thought i'd resurrect this thread to let everyone who gave me such good advice and encouragement know how i'm doing.

as someone said above i had not noticed the decline in my hearing. Commercial tracks do sound better as mentioned in the previous post. when i listen first thing in the morning without my aids i notice just how much i was missing.

my own mixes do sound better and i don't feel the need for exciter plugins as much as i used to. i realize i was trying to compensate for my ears not correct a genuinely dull mix. now just a touch (based on Matt's invaluable advice to turn it up until you can hear it then back off!) is all i use.

the lack of talent is still a problem but i thought all of you who were so kind, helpful and encouraging would like to know how things are progressing.


Edited by Bob Calver (10/15/20 09:45 AM)

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#619182 - 10/15/20 12:56 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 197
Simon - PG Music Offline
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Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 197
Some great info in this thread! It's something I've been concerned about myself, as I have some tinnitus (hereditary, thanks Dad) up in the 8-9khz region. I still have relatively normal hearing range for my age at least, but I've been trying to take care of my ears over the last half decade, trying to limit anything over 80db or wearing ear plugs and in-ear monitors.
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#619277 - 10/16/20 06:13 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9526
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9526
Loc: GA USA
I use an iPhone app to check exposure. My audiologist said to not exceed 80db avg at any time if I want to retain what’s left of my hearing.

There are several high rated accurate apps available. I also have it on my Apple Watch.

Bud

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#619290 - 10/16/20 08:41 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20659
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20659
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Bob, thanks for giving us an update. The information in this thread could be helpful to anyone, though there is a higher probability musicians may benefit more than most.

The advice Bob said I have given is not in this thread, I think, so I’ll summarize it here. When I use a plug-in, such as an exciter Bob mentioned, my general guideline is to turn up the plugin until I can just hear its effects, and then back off halfway.
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#620729 - 10/26/20 05:28 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7790
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7790
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
I use an iPhone app to check exposure. My audiologist said to not exceed 80db avg at any time if I want to retain what’s left of my hearing.

There are several high rated accurate apps available. I also have it on my Apple Watch.

Bud


FYI. Unless you have a calibration procedure for your particular phone model and the response curve of the mics in your phone are known, the accuracy of these apps is nearly useless for protecting your hearing from further loss. Reference NIOSH reports from the 2014 NHCA conference for the pitfalls of trusting apps. You would be much farther ahead using an inexpensive SPL meter that has a known calibration. Parts Express and Amazon have some rather inexpensive ones that will be much more accurate than your phone app

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#620783 - 10/27/20 06:07 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: advice plesae on mixing with newly diagnosed hearing loss [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9526
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9526
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: rockstar_not
Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
I use an iPhone app to check exposure. My audiologist said to not exceed 80db avg at any time if I want to retain what’s left of my hearing.

There are several high rated accurate apps available. I also have it on my Apple Watch.

Bud


FYI. Unless you have a calibration procedure for your particular phone model and the response curve of the mics in your phone are known, the accuracy of these apps is nearly useless for protecting your hearing from further loss. Reference NIOSH reports from the 2014 NHCA conference for the pitfalls of trusting apps. You would be much farther ahead using an inexpensive SPL meter that has a known calibration. Parts Express and Amazon have some rather inexpensive ones that will be much more accurate than your phone app


Old data. Six years in tech world development is enormous - 2014 from a tech perspective is the ice age smile Some of the latest apps are used in a variety of professional applications. Simply search on decibel meters for IOS and include 2020 in the search.

Bud

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