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#607114 - 07/19/20 05:46 PM [Beginners Forum] Tempo and 1st Bar
Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
futurebird Offline
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Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
Hello,

I am a new music student and a new BiaB user. I am working through transposing the song Rodeo by the Futurebirds (I know, nice username). For reference, you can listen to the song here on YouTube.



I have the song almost finished but I'm stuck on some parts.

The song runs at a 111 tempo and 4/4 time (I'm fairly certain). However, I'm not sure how to make the BiaB structure match the audio track. Here is a screen shot:



BiaB treats the first intro bar at a faster tempo than the rest of the song. If I change the whole song to a 111 tempo, it throws off all the timing. What is the "correct" way to represent those first 5 notes or so in this song?

Thanks for looking!

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#607140 - 07/19/20 07:35 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: futurebird]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12305
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
BiaB treats the first intro bar at a faster tempo than the rest of the song. If I change the whole song to a 111 tempo, it throws off all the timing. What is the "correct" way to represent those first 5 notes or so in this song?

Firstly, Welcome.
Zooming in on your screen capture I see the tempo is set at 213 (see screen capture extract below).
It is possible to change the tempo at any bar by selecting that bar and pressing function key <F5>.
Perhaps you have inadvertently set some bars, or the Song main tempo to a different tempo?
Suggest that you set the Song Tempo to 111, and then use <F5> functions to 'Reset ALL Bars' (unless you have other changes within the song). That might hopefully get you back on a level playing field. Hope this helps.


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#607141 - 07/19/20 07:36 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 06/05/12
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VideoTrack Offline
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Incidentally, I checked and you are correct, the song runs pretty close to 111 bpm.
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#607143 - 07/19/20 07:46 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: futurebird]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12305
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
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Another observation, the red underscore showing at the start of each bar below the bar number, indicates that you have some type of bar change going on for every bar of the song.
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#607145 - 07/19/20 08:12 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
futurebird Offline
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Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
Currently the first bar lines up with the audio files first bar:



If I change the tempo in the Song Settings dialog, it kicks the first bar over like so:



If I then reset the first bar everything gets out of sync, the BiaB drums don't match up to the audio file anymore.

I didn't change each bar, could this be an effect of the Audio Chord Wizard?

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#607147 - 07/19/20 09:18 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: futurebird]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12305
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
I didn't change each bar, could this be an effect of the Audio Chord Wizard?

Probably.
I usually write my own material and therefore I don't profess to be an ACW power user, but there are many here who are. Hopefully someone will step in.
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#607168 - 07/20/20 03:34 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
futurebird Offline
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Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
I did manually set all my own bar lines to keep time with the audio track. Perhaps this is why the red lines appear?

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#607169 - 07/20/20 04:23 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: futurebird]
Registered: 06/05/12
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: futurebird
I did manually set all my own bar lines to keep time with the audio track. Perhaps this is why the red lines appear?

Certainly, that will be related.
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#607268 - 07/20/20 05:27 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
futurebird Offline
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Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
In the Audio Chord Wizard video tutorials, the red lines appear in their examples as well.

Which brings me back to that opening section. Where would you start counting the first bar? Would it be when the guitar starts or when the rest of the band comes in on the cymbal crash? If the former, and you start counting the beats in the first bar, and the tempo is 111, I count 1 and 2 and 3 before I hit the next 111 tempo section. Does this mean the song is not in 4/4 time but 3/4?

Or should I be counting it 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and?

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#607293 - 07/20/20 09:33 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: futurebird]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12305
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
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The time signature for the song is definitely 4/4, with a BPM of around 111.

If you select any bar (perhaps other than the first bar) and press <F5> it will launch the Bar Settings window. This will show you what changes the ACW has made to BiaB for that bar. Perhaps it will show that the tempo has changed, etc?

Hopefully someone with experience with the ACW will be able to assist further.
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#607294 - 07/20/20 09:48 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: futurebird]
Registered: 03/26/04
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Tobias Offline
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Clue: The first note in this song is on the down beat of the 3. The first cymbal crash is the first down beat of the first measure. The song file you are using does not have enough silence at the beginning to accommodate a 1 - 2. So, hit play and immediately start counting 3 - 4 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4. . .
This means in the ACW you will drag the cymbal crash to beat one of the first bar. Then, when you edit/create the song in BIAB chord sheet you will EDIT-INSERT BARS - insert at least one bar. Or to help keep your eyes and head straight insert 4 bars so that the cymbal crash is on beat 1 of bar 5. Now, on bar 1 insert a chord and mute all instruments. On bar 4 type in a chord on beat 3 by using a comma then the chord. I would also put a chord on beat one of bar 4 and have that play drums only. That will give some sort of 1 - 2 count just before beat 3 and 4 so you know where to come in when you play along on your instrument.
If you want your audio to align (for the most part) with the chord sheet you will need to go to Audio Edit and move the audio track over. I've only found the way to do this is by guessing several times and using undo several times. You can make a back up song file first for security.
But, I'm still using BIAB 2016 version. So 2020 might have better options.
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#607332 - 07/21/20 07:57 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: Tobias]
Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
futurebird Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 5
Thank you thank you Tobias!

This helped tremendously. It did not occur to me that the song would or could start in the middle of a bar with silence.

As soon as I inserted a bar before that first note of guitar, it moved the audio track further to the right to accommodate. Now everything lines up correctly at the same tempo throughout (more or less).

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#607740 - 07/24/20 04:52 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Tempo and 1st Bar [Re: futurebird]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6131
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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You've received some great suggestions so far, particularly the advice to get the correct first bar setting. I use the ACW a lot and I'll share the steps I use that I think simplify accurately setting bars and tempo. I've attached a screen shot for clarity of the buttons I use.

. I find it very useful to set bar one before opening the ACW in the Audio Editor Window so I do it first. This is helpful when counting the following bars of the song.
To set Bar One before opening the ACW, set the cursor at the exact position you think is correct for Bar One. Rt. Click with your mouse and select the last selection, Mark this as Bar 1 of the song (e.g. for imported audio with a long lead in)
This action can only be done prior to opening the ACW or with the ACW closed because this selection in not available once the ACW has been opened.
Setting Bar One first syncs the first measure with the first bar and makes aligning all of the following bars in the song a lot easier.

. If you know the song's tempo or have a good guess, set it as the Master Tempo from the Audio Menu Tool Bar. In your song, you know it's 4/4 at 111 bpm. Use these settings for your song.
. To accurately set the first bar in the ACW, Open the ACW and check the Snap option Button. Mouse click Bar 1 (the snap option selects bar 1 accurately and Bar 1 was previously selected in the step above before opening the ACW), hit the L key
. Deselect the Snap Option
. Start the song and manually set bar 2 by hitting the L key
. Restart the the song and manually adjust the Bar 2 selection for accuracy if necessary. Observing the wave form is helpful determining bar 2's location.
. Select the Auto Marking Button. The ACW will populate the remainder of the song's bars based on the tempo of the first two bars. This is useful and faster than manually setting each bar because you can play the song, stopping to fine adjust bars that may be off a bit. Continue to the end of the song.
. play through the song and ensure the bar settings are accurate.
. With the Bars set accurately, activate the Analyze Button to determine the Chords of the song and populate the Chord Chart.
. Once I'm satisfied with the ACW tempo, bar settings and chord selections, I equalize the Tempo using the Equalize Tempos Button.
. I vary from the ACW tutorial video at this point and turn off the ACW and close the Audio Edit Window. You can choose to leave the ACW and Audio Edit Window open and resize the window with the Chord Chart to continue editing the tempo and Chords. It a personal preference to do it either way.

You are correct guessing the red lines on the bars are set by the ACW. If you have completed the steps I've outlined including Equalizing the tempos, these markers are unnecessary. It's most likely you've made no other Bar Changes at this point of the song and if that's the case, you can use F5 to open the Bar Settings window and select Reset all Bars to erase all of the red markers from each bar in one step. If some bars have been edited, to retain the red markers for those bars and to only erase the red markers set by the ACW analysis, I use the Audio Chord Wizard... Utilities selection from the Audio Tool Menu and select the Erase Tempo Map Button followed by ensuring the Master Tempo is set correctly using the Set Master Tempo Button from the Audio Tools Menu at the top of the screen.

Hope the steps I do analyzing with the ACW are useful to you and others.







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Edited by Charlie Fogle (07/24/20 04:54 AM)
Edit Reason: Add screenshot
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