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#604457 - 06/29/20 11:42 PM [Other PG Music Programs] The Modern Jazz Pianist: Renee Rosnes’ advanced harmony
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 200
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 200
Loc: Europe
There’s this obscure PGMUSIC app that’s called the Modern Jazz Pianist. Installing it on Win10 gave me weird results with chords being spelled wrongly, but if you drag the midis in Biab, you see the chords

Anyway, the playing is off the charts. Miles Black is great, wonderful, but, truth be told, the real star is the amazing Renee Rosnes.

If people are intrested in discussing some of the harmony going on, I’d like that. I’ve been trying to figure some things out.

One of the most amazing things is this little blues called Lexicon, a deftly reharmonized 12 bar blues.

On bar 76 (first four bars of F7) she goes into this mind blowing arpeggio that reads F, Gb, B, D, that is 1, b9, #11, 6. I thought, that’s a nice diminished dominant, like F13b9, right?
But in the left hand she plays F quartal voicing, reading: F, Bb, Eb, that is 1, 11, b7. The combination is no longer compatible with F13b9, the diminished dominant chord, becuse there is no natural 11 there.

So I wondered, what if she spells out locrianNat6, which is the second mode of harmonic minor?
I know Renee Rosnes has played with Joe Henderson and Wayne Shorter, is influenced by Herbie Hancock and Richie Beirach. Hancock and Shorter are, to me, the Parkers and Coltranes of our generation.

I have never even considered the LocrianNat6 chord as being something other than the II-chord in a minor II-V, where, truth be told, you just play harmonic minor over the whole progression. I heard Beirach talk about the harmonic minor scale a lot. I didn’t understand, cause I always associated harmonic minor with minor blues or simplified and dull-ified arabic music. It never sounded “modern” to me. Now, all of a sudden, it does.

I dig Mark Levine’s harmony and piano books and most of what I know is derived from these books. And Mark Levine largely dismisses the harmonic minor scale. Most musicians in the intermediate amateur realm are Levinites, like me. And we never play harmonic minor, since our religion forbids the use of it on weekdays, as well as on weekends, smile

If anyone is as mind-blown as I am over this wonderful PGMusic set and especially Renee Rosnes’ playing, please, share what you learned from it.

It’s way over my head, out of my league, above my pay check, a different ballpark altogether, but intrigues me.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
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#604475 - 06/30/20 05:28 AM [Other PG Music Programs] Re: The Modern Jazz Pianist: Renee Rosnes’ advanced harmony [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20300
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 20300
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
This came out several years ago, as part of a series. I did buy The Latin Pianist and learned a lot from seeing what the piano played. Just recently, on Dzjang’s recommendation in another thread, I bought The Modern Jazz Pianist.

Wow.

I don’t play piano. I’ve read all the common theory books, though, including Mark Levine’s (mentioned above) and for the most part understand the theory. But this Modern Jazz Pianist is in another league. I’m still trying to understand some of what I hear and see.

Highly recommend for advanced jazz musicians. You will have your head blown, so take it in small doses.
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BIAB 2020 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition CC, Notion; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#604482 - 06/30/20 06:39 AM [Other PG Music Programs] Re: The Modern Jazz Pianist: Renee Rosnes’ advanced harmony [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 6822
Loc: Chicago
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 6822
Loc: Chicago
Renee Rosnes, who's that? crazy




Ok, now I see. ...Sorry, I am not even qualified to listen to this stuff much less discuss it. grin
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Dan, BIAB2020
"...My goal is not to create backing tracks for my music, but rather to get more of me in my music."
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#604484 - 06/30/20 06:46 AM [Other PG Music Programs] Re: The Modern Jazz Pianist: Renee Rosnes’ advanced harmony [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 02/04/17
Posts: 353
RayL Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/04/17
Posts: 353
Another interesting way to approach this question is via chord substitution.
There's an F7. If you were comping, you might augment that by playing a ii-V to dress the chords up. Now it's Cm-F7.

So, instead of doing that substitution with your left hand (the harmony) do it, or imply it with the right hand (the melody line).

Look at those notes as if they go with a quartal Cm voicing (F-Bb-Eb, no root). You have F, Gb, Bb, B, D, Eb
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RayL

MacBook Pro mid 2014 2.5GHz Intel Core i7 16GB RAM MacOS Mojave 10.14.6
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#604498 - 06/30/20 08:04 AM [Other PG Music Programs] Re: The Modern Jazz Pianist: Renee Rosnes’ advanced harmony [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 200
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 200
Loc: Europe
@Musicstudent: never saw this video, wow... how intense is that.
I am not worthy, either, by the way. Much as I dig it. Amazing!

Jerry Coker, Mark Levine, the Berklee Books, Coltrane changes... don’t cut it, this stuff is way beyond all that.

What comes closest is the reharmonization book by Randy Felts. Though he sticks to the church modes, his theory on parallel voicings moving in unexpected ways (reharmonization using bass lines) sheds some light.

I saw a YT vid on “sounding like Robert Glasper”. It talked about unexpected resolutions (cm7-F7 resolving to Bmaj or A maj instead of Bb...), parallel voicing moving in whole steps, minor and major thirds, harmonizing a simple melody with parallel voicings.

Last, but not least, I read something on Wayne Shorter were it is said that Shorter changed the chords in unexpected ways: Bbmajor replaces Bb7 as the dominant to Ebmaj. And then he extends Bbmajor to Bblydian or lydian augmented.

If you consider bII7 (a tritone sub) and replace that chord with phrygian or lydian (augmented) it begins to make sense.
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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#606093 - 07/11/20 10:50 PM [Other PG Music Programs] Re: The Modern Jazz Pianist: Renee Rosnes’ advanced harmony [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 200
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 200
Loc: Europe
Wouldn’t it be like a dream come true if Renee Rosnes and Miles Black could talk us through some of the harmony of this wonderful disk? A video or a text. I’d be more than willing to pay for that.
That disk is so special and so mind blowing. I know that’s the harmony of Tom Harrell and Herbie Hancock and I’d love to know more about it. And, though I really try, I don’t understand it.

Something like this:

The Modern Jazz Pianist, pt2,
Renee Rosnes and Miles Black masterclass
Renee and Miles talk you through the harmony used in part 1 of the Modern Jazz Pianist.
In the first part of the video Renee and Miles unravel the chords and underlying harmony of some of their compositions.
In the second hour they shed some light on the improvisation part: which scales, pentatonics, arpeggios they use and how they practised that material to get to the level they are at.


Hey, a man can dream, can he not?
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

Top
#608456 - 07/29/20 05:37 AM [Other PG Music Programs] Re: The Modern Jazz Pianist: Renee Rosnes’ advanced harmony [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 58
Loc: Florida
etcjoe Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 58
Loc: Florida
Can anyone here recommend the Piano Master Class and Jazz Piano Master Class programs from PG Music as well as any of the other master class or master solo's programs either Piano or Guitar?
_________________________
2020 Audiophile, Windows 64 Bit, Cubase Pro 10.5, Cakewalk Sonar Platinum (now Cakewalk by Bandlab). A bunch of other stuff.
Guitar player extraordinaire.

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#609987 - 08/09/20 07:10 AM [Other PG Music Programs] Re: The Modern Jazz Pianist: Renee Rosnes’ advanced harmony [Re: Dzjang]
Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 200
Loc: Europe
Dzjang Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 11/05/16
Posts: 200
Loc: Europe
@etcjoe

The Jazz Piano Masterclass is wonderful.
Essential Jazz Guitar Is a real gem for guitarists: it’s only comping, but really sophisticated in the Jim Hall-Ed Bickert style.

Have fun
_________________________
Biab, Kontakt, Sampletank and lots of nice libraries, from Fluffy audio to Abbey Road drums.
Check out these great contemporary Jazz Styles: www.jazzstylezz.com
https://soundcloud.com/jazzstylezz/tracks

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