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Why doesn't BIAB allow and include covers in their programming? I know it would require paying royalties and/or fees, but wouldn't that be worth the increased volume of sales? Inquiring minds want to know. 
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Obviously, if people could buy BIAB and have pre-programmed songs included as part of the package then thousands of more people would buy the program.
I've wondered about this for years.
I know it would take a lot of work, but isn't that what we are paying them to do?
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 08/28/20 12:14 AM.
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Hi Bob
I hear what you say but,
You can already get such software and hardware Karaoke Players.
Then the problem is what version of say a much recorded song like My Way do you want the cover of.
Anyway you can import Midi files into Biab and a .kar file is only a midi, and can have its file extension change from .kar to .mid.
So you all ready have it in a way.
Just my thoughts,
Mike
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But I've already paid for something that should include that. Why would I pay for more?
It's a no brainer that PG should start including covers, ...especially if they want to survive in the future.
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Hi Bob,
There are thousands of free midi covers on the net.
You cold also use mp3 covers and change to wav and import as audio. and let Biab create a chord sheet from it.
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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<< Anyway you can import Midi files into Biab and a .kar file is only a midi, and can have its file extension change from .kar to .mid.
So you all ready have it in a way.>>
I often wonder about this. My Yamaha PSR-s670 has hundreds of 'Styles' that are similar in every aspect to a BIAB SGU Style and even the cheapest Midi keyboard will contain some number of Styles. The keyboard can load a midi style that's a cover for nearly every commercially released song one can imagine and some even can post lyrics. Some midi files are nearly note perfect replicas and can sound incredibly authentic to the original recording. But Midi files can be found everywhere and doesn't seem to have the copyright issue that's much discussed here on the forums with BIAB generated 'covers'.
I understand and honor PG Music's position about posting but my remarks are referencing what's the distinct difference between a BIAB style and a Yamaha, Korg, Casio or Roland style?
<< Why doesn't BIAB allow and include covers in their programming?>>
I can't speak for PG Music policy, but there's no restrictions in BIAB programming I'm aware of, it's only in posting in their forum where they restrict covers. You can create anything you wish with your BIAB software.
Also in midi styles and RealStyles, especially older midi styles, there's on rare occasions recognizable riffs and melody phrases scattered about. The same for RealTrack audio and RealStyle demos. With thousands of hours of RealTracks and demos plus no possible way to search out any specific riff or phrase, It's only when one stumbles upon a recognizable or nearly identical riff or phrase while auditioning a style or track that such an audio snippet is found. With Midi, you are free to edit that midi file or add melodies if you want. You just can't post it here, on YouTube, Soundcloud, Facebook or other sites without copyright infringement issues.
BIAB also includes the capability in the software suite of features that make it possible and easy for users to create, share, sell and collaborate on projects by use of features such as email, UserTracks and Artist Performance Tracks. That's peer to peer interaction and doesn't infringe on any BIAB restrictions of how or what can be done with your use of BIAB.
<< Obviously, if people could buy BIAB and have pre-programmed songs included as part of the package then thousands of more people would buy the program.>>
I totally agree with this and wonder why no BIAB user has not created third party SGU files, paid the licensing fees and created commercial covers to compete with Karaoke CD's. Manufacturing costs should be similar if not less.
Another commercial option would be to offer for a fee, BIAB generated audio tracks for home or small recording studio projects on a site such as Fivrr.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 08/28/20 04:21 AM.
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as Mike says you can get virtually any midi cover you want either free or paid for individually on a karaoke site.
but again, what covers would you include? you'd have to guess what would be popular and as you can import any mp3 and generate chords, then play in what have been called signature licks, it seems like a marketing jump too far for PG Music.
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.................................
<< Obviously, if people could buy BIAB and have pre-programmed songs included as part of the package then thousands of more people would buy the program.>>
I totally agree with this and wonder why no BIAB user has not created third party SGU files, paid the licensing fees and created commercial covers to compete with Karaoke CD's. Manufacturing costs should be similar if not less.
Another commercial option would be to offer for a fee, BIAB generated audio tracks for home or small recording studio projects on a site such as Fivrr.
Notes would know more about this than me but my guess is that the cost of the licenses is prohibitive. However you can purchase Notes' fake book disks and play all the covers that you want. The disk have the exact chord progression as the corresponding fake book and suggest a BiaB style. Just load the SGU and play along.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
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I’m sure the reason is simple PGM has their hands full keeping the programs and content moving forward. They most likely don’t want to deal with that added load and expense not to mention legal issue in multiple countries. Actually the capability is already there just watch the videos that Henry posted it’s really not hard to create your own plus add Notes song files it’s just laying there. Personally I would rather have a take on a song, or my version rather than a karaoke file. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=612321&Searchpage=1&Main=85045&Words=Henry&Search=true#Post612321
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Well, think about what you are asking for. You'd probably want 1000 bluegrass songs. I'd want 1000 funk songs. Mario would like jazz. The southerners would want country. Then break that down into genres. Modern country, old school country, cowboy country.... Isn't the idea of the software that it is supposed to be a writing tool? They advertise it with this statement: "Band-in-a-Box® automatically generates a complete professional-quality arrangement of piano, bass, drums, guitar, and strings or horns." It doesn't say "We'll do everything for you so you can play along with zero effort at all." They do what they do extremely well and a lot of us have put out full CDs of our own work with PG as the backing band. (I am not telling you anything there you didn't already know. You've been around a while.) Everyone wishes for something different to be added or changed. For me it would be the ability to select a section of a track and apply an effect just to that section. Right now to do that I have to pull that chunk out of a track, paste it into a new track, and apply that effect. I don't think I should have to do that. In pro Tools I can select a section and apply effects to just that section. BUT... they never intended for Real Band to replace Pro Tools. Real Band is a very serviceable DAW once you get used to it. I am shocked to know how many of the old school guys never even tried it, though I have never used BIAB, either, so..... Someone had to point out to me that the OGs were using BIAB well before Real Band was ever born, so I understood better why they stick to BIAB once I knew that. I first bought this in 2009 and immediately went to Real Band. I would be lost in BIAB. You can get backing tracks from youtube right HERE.
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well, if they did include covers in the mix, they would have to pay royalties to do that and then the price would necessarily go up to us. I'm cool without the covers.
If I want, I can make my own cover in a few minutes.
I'm not a fan of moving in that direction.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Perhaps an investigative reporter will interview Peter Gannon one day and ask him the question. Even so, there's no guarantee he will decide to answer.
But, the question has been asked in this forum several times with no answer forthcoming so I have my doubts he will answer this time.
I will say though I've noticed not all Band-in-a-Box users only post originals. Many times when I follow a User Showcase original song link I find cover songs residing on the same account along side the link to the original song.
It's not that hard to find cover songs created using Band-in-a-Box. All you have to do is be a little curious about what other songs does a User Showcase link lead to.
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It's a fee folks. Why wouldn't PG just pay it and increase their sales?
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It's a fee folks. Why wouldn't PG just pay it and increase their sales? Can you say for sure it would increase sales? I honestly don't see it as a slam dunk. I really prefer to do my own programming and likely a lot of people here do. I can arrange covers MY way, add choruses, extend solo sections.... It would likely have to be 60/40 in favor before they would take on what would be a monumental task.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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I listen to the original version of Penny Lane just as a test. I then listen to five or six Karaoke versions. Some were a bit better than others but none really sounded like Penny Lane. First where will you get some one to play Piccolo Trumpet? The original recording was an involved process starting out on a four track and many overdubs. This is just an example of one song. I have from time to time been able to use a track or two from a Karaoke file.
If BIAB or anyone else were to make a cover song that followed the original very close, tons of time and money would be needed.
Next question is what do you want left out? The vocal? The guitar? Do you want a piano version of the song? Penny Lane had several piano parts all reduced down to one track.
I have played a lot of cover songs live with my band and never really liked it much. I never thought our versions were normally as good as the originals. It was hard enough just to get a horn section from time to time must less some arcane instrument . It cost too much for the venues we were playing in. We went from a seven piece to a four piece to just me and Louis playing together. And even at that the money we got paid only served to irritate me. There was a time a long time ago that gigs paid real money.
I tried recording some parts and having the band play to a prerecorded track which proved to be pretty difficult even with a click track in the mix.
Backing tracks are very easy for me to play along with by myself. Not so much with a band. Really good studio quality cover tune backing tracks are a lot of work to make and require certain musicians to sound right.
We have Brent Mason playing for us in BIAB and he is a fantastic studio musician. Brent can play blues but it comes out sounding like Brent Mason.
I like BIAB just like it is.
I think if they made cover tunes I would most likely not like them any better than the Karaoke ones.
Best wishes to everyone,
Billy
EDIT...I wanted to see if I had any covers on my soundcloud account. Out of 55 songs two are covers,,,lol
Last edited by Planobilly; 08/28/20 07:33 PM.
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... Penny Lane. First where will you get some one to play Piccolo Trumpet?
Billy I’ve played that part, but it’s HARD.
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If you want to play along with cover tunes download the app called Jamzone on an iPad and turn off the track(s) you want to do yourself. Easy as pie great for covers. https://www.jamzone.com/
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Bob Norton went into detail about this many times on the forum. He checked out what it would cost for him to include melody's and lyrics with his Fakebook discs. It was 2 or 3 dollars PER SONG PER DISC SOLD. Fakebooks have anywhere from 500 to 1,000 songs in them.
You do the math.
Commercial music companies are prohibited from selling melody's, lyrics or song specific licks or phrases without paying royalties. IF they are even available to pay royalties on. Many are not, the rights holder which is usually one of the huge music companies like Sony or Universal can simply say no, we're not selling any rights for that tune.
We keep thinking in terms of the original artist for many 40-50 year old songs but what I've heard lately is they're dead or close to it and the estate cashed out by selling their rights to Sony or Universal and they keep them locked up for their own uses.
Rick Beato has been talking about this a lot lately on his YT channel. He just recently testified in front of Congress about Youtubers having music related vids either taken down or demonetized because the rights holder objected.
A company like PGM is not about to take a risk with copyright issues and it's ridiculously too expensive to pay royalties on thousands of songs for each copy of the software sold.
Want good covers? It's up to you to figure it out.
Bob
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