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Covid 19; Is ignorance or indifference putting more lives at risk? A light hearted introduction to the topic; Old Crow Medicine Show - Quarantined (Official Video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gD1B0X2SWw&list=PL3r_j6sKne0ee5iNX0-U6oszcpaY70asP&index=3&t=0sI don't know about you, but I'm tired of people acting as if it didn't exist, or speaking of it in the past tense as if it weren't still happening. According to Bing, the US death toll today is 192,082. I was an early adopter of masks. As soon as I found some to order I placed an order for 3 boxes. 1 for me, 1 for my son and 1 for my ex-wife. We never leave home without them. So what do you think? Ignorance or indifference?
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Punk attitude is the problem. That whole "Nobody ain't gon' tell ME I gotsta wear a mask!!!" Combined with the ignorance factor of "How is this mask going to protect me?" Well, dumbass, the mask is to protect us FROM you by not allowing your exhaled breath to travel far enough for us to inhale it. You don't know if you are a carrier or not. You can spread a virus without having symptoms yourself. But that is this angry generation that thinks they know it all despite that being 180 degrees off. (If any of that generation Y is confused, 180 degrees off means "you have it backwards".) Just like how you can contract shingles from someone exposed to chicken pox though that person doesn't have chicken pox.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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2. Send it to us.
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How many responses until this post gets banned?
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How many responses until this post gets banned? It's amazing how little time it took for someone to suggest a ban about a topic on an international pandemic that affects every living human being on the planet even though it included a relevant musical song addressing the problem. Free speech does appear to be a problem in 2020's "cancel culture".
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Covid 19; Is ignorance or indifference putting more lives at risk? A light hearted introduction to the topic; Old Crow Medicine Show - Quarantined (Official Video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gD1B0X2SWw&list=PL3r_j6sKne0ee5iNX0-U6oszcpaY70asP&index=3&t=0sI don't know about you, but I'm tired of people acting as if it didn't exist, or speaking of it in the past tense as if it weren't still happening. According to Bing, the US death toll today is 192,082. I was an early adopter of masks. As soon as I found some to order I placed an order for 3 boxes. 1 for me, 1 for my son and 1 for my ex-wife. We never leave home without them. So what do you think? Ignorance or indifference? Both and a refusal to listen to the experts and getting counsel from unqualified people.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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I own a farm. We spray dangerous chemicals almost every day. I have Dupont Hazmat suits and half face respirators our guys wear every day. So wearing a mask is so normal for me I never gave it a second thought. I have to pass government hazmat test to prove I understand how and why to use the equipment.
Having to wear PPE to the supermarket was a new thing and I knew from the beginning the information regarding mask wearing, these little blue mask were pretty poor protection. I had Green N95 mask of the type doctors use in the ER. It is what I use for everyday stuff.
I don't have any control of anyone else's ignorance or indifference, real or perceived. If you wear a mask or not I am going to protect myself. I also did not need the government to tell me to put one on. I am a old guy and I do not want to contract Covid-19.
I have no expectation people in general would have any idea what a nanometer is or how small a viron is, or what sort of mask will do what but they should see that doctors wear mask to protect them self all the time. So what is the big deal?
I know people who think Covid-19 does not exist. I also know people who think the earth is flat. With the number of folks who can not read the front page of a newspaper, in any language, I don't find it strange that they may not believe something they can nor see exist.
I know my employees have gotten sick and one died. The hospital said he had Covid-19 and I have no reason not to believe them.
On this particular issue I am neither ignorance or indifference but it is very east to become complacent. I hope we can all put this pandemic behind us sooner than later. There seems to be good reason to think a vaccine will be produced. There is no guarantee this will ever happen and if we don't get a vaccine we will adapt.
Best wishes for everyone,
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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bobcflatpicker, for me one of the saddest things is realizing how many people in the USA have allowed something as basic as a mask to be a political statement. If we had had a national policy on masks and social distancing from the beginning we could already have this pandemic under control and 100,000 Americans could still be alive.
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The first thing I noticed when I started wearing a mask was how many people looked at me like I was some kind of freak. At least that's changed.
For the record, I hate wearing a mask. I'm old, I'm fat, I've had open heart surgery just a couple of years ago, I have high blood pressure, I have breathing problems. If someone was going to try to claim a medical exemption as an excuse to not wear a mask then I have a whole list of reasons I could use to try to get out of it.
Still, I wouldn't even consider going out in public without a mask, and I try to stay at least 10 ft. or more from anyone around me.
One of my sisters birthday was a couple of weeks ago. My other sister was coming up to see her and they both wanted to come over to visit. My sister with the birthday did warn me that she'd started going back to church recently after the initial phase of the pandemic. I told her that I'd rather they didn't come over until after the pandemic was over.
She's exposing herself to hundreds of people 3 times a week and anyone else she goes around gets that same exposure. Not only would I be exposed to the mass amount of people she comes into contact with but I would also be exposing my son to the same.
It's not rocket science to slow the spread of Covid. Avoid crowds, wear a mask in public and practice social distancing. It's not a guarantee but it significantly increases your chances of protecting others and yourselves.
Just because we have some fools in leadership positions doesn't mean we should emulate them or listen to the nonsense that comes out of their mouths.
Science first. Politics doesn't even make it into the top 10.
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 09/07/20 11:51 PM.
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The only reason I didn't title this post "Is ignorance or apathy putting more lives at risk?" is because I didn't want to get the stock answer of "I don't know and I don't care".
I saw where some famous sports figure was trying to defend playing sports during Covid and he said "If I die, ...then I die". Somehow I don't think he'd be using those words if he or a loved one were dying from Covid.
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I know people who think Covid-19 does not exist. I also know people who think the earth is flat. Even more shocking, some people think that Stevie Nicks can sing!! Your mention of a farm brought her to mind, with with that voice that sounds like a sheep and all.... If she wasn't hot, she would have NO male fans. And she is like 71 now and STILL hot.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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Our good friend of 25 years died of Covid last month after three miserable weeks on a ventilator. He was fit (we mountain bike raced together for years), smart, well educated, science based and did all the right things to avoid infection. He apparently contracted it from a non mask wearing person while he was at a PT visit. His wife appealed three times to the hospital CEO to let her and their adult children be at his bedside. He was a great father and athlete whom I never heard say an unkind word.
His wife now wears a mask that says on it “I lost a loved one ... I wear this mask to protect yours.”
I know this forum is supposed to be music related so I’ll mention that his son once played drums in a band of note and that he sang in a church choir that was frequently invited to perform at many venues.
That’s all I have to say.
Bud
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I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
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The only reason I didn't title this post "Is ignorance or apathy putting more lives at risk?" is because I didn't want to get the stock answer of "I don't know and I don't care".
I saw where some famous sports figure was trying to defend playing sports during Covid and he said "If I die, ...then I die". Somehow I don't think he'd be using those words if he or a loved one were dying from Covid.
Bob, it is ignorance. We have a generation of kids that did not learn any history, have no manors, have been told their whole lives that they are special, never had a somewhat major disappointment, think everything should be free, and like most of us when we were at that age think they are invincible. The difference is when we were kids we could not kill people by breathing on them!
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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You can't cure stupid.
My bro-in-law's family decided to take the advice of a real estate salesman instead of the medical experts in contagious diseases. Wife, son, and son's fiance all got COVID. Wife thought she was going to die in an isolation ward while it took everything she had just to breathe. She now has permanent organ damage. The jury is out on whether the organ damage of son and fiance will be permanent or just take years to heal.
My bro-in-law says, "I was stupid."
Last edited by Notes Norton; 09/08/20 03:01 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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I heard a MLK quote today that I'd never heard before.
"The time is always right to do what is right."
This is true in so many areas of our lives. To stay on topic, if people would just start avoiding crowds, wearing masks and practicing social distancing it would save tens of thousands of lives.
It's not a political statement, ... just an easy defense to the modern day plaque we are currently facing.
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In The UK It's disgusting to see so many people ???? Protesting against lockdown, protesting against climate change and all the rest of it.
Many covidiots here believe it's all one huge hoax devised by worldwide governments. Illegal parties taking place all over the country and the virus is on the increase again. People like those morons will be the first to bleat when they're locked up in their homes again. Myself and my wife have barely left our garden for the last 6 months, yet, people like our neighbours ignored the lockdown since day one, going out & about several times a day. The police here need more power to arrest thoughtless scum and fine them heavily.
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West Virginia University becomes the latest school to backtrack on in-person classes after a spike in Covid-19 cases https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/08/us/west-virginia-university-coronavirus-trnd/index.htmlI don't know why schools keep trying to re-open. It's a bad idea now and it's only going to get worse as fall and winter sets in. Wake up folks! We're in an international pandemic and things aren't going to go back to normal until next year sometime, ... maybe not even then. We missed the boat to put a lid on this in Jan or Feb when we were told it would magically disappear and some people actually believed that nonsense.
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Think about how how many lives could have been saved and how many fewer families would be dealing with the loss of a loved one, maybe even the bread winner of that family, if we hadn't pretended the threat wasn't real and responded sooner.
Maybe we should give more than a second thought to who we put in charge of decisions that affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people.
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How many responses until this post gets banned? It's amazing how little time it took for someone to suggest a ban about a topic on an international pandemic that affects every living human being on the planet even though it included a relevant musical song addressing the problem. Free speech does appear to be a problem in 2020's "cancel culture". I did not suggest a ban.
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I was waiting for the chorus of virus denying “patriots” to show up. They haven’t yet, surprisingly.
The MLK quote has been my Skype Instant Message banner message for the better part of the past couple of years, BTW.
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Re Schools going back......In Scotland they went back a few weeks before the rest of the country which is normal. Within a few days many many young pupils were tested positive. We were told by the government young children couldn't carry the virus. They were proved wrong. How can people be called so called experts when the virus is less than a year old ????? English schools returned last week and ALREADY thousands of pupils were affected. When ours went back, my daughter was disgusted to see dozens of parents with young kids 5 years old upwards congregating outside the school gates in groups many with a [*****] in the gob what is that teaching their children ?, NONE were wearing masks inside the school none of the teachers were wearing masks. The problem is that authorities were too lenient from the beginning. MPs were frequently flouting the lockdown rules and of course that encouraged the covidiots to do the same. The police had no real guidance on what powers they had from the start and that's one of the things that could have improved matters greatly. Back in April when the virus was at its worst, thousands of people not just nationwide but worldwide ignored social distancing and beaches were crammed packed. This trend continued all summer. People have shown how stupid they are more and more with the result that thousands of new cases are being registered here daily, not just weekly.
Sorry for waffling on but I feel really disgusted about they way selfish morons are behaving these days
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Here in Hong Kong, we're finally starting to open up again. As a teacher, I'm nervous. We've done well so far, but South Korea did well too and they're in trouble now. Here, of course, everyone wears masks. People still remember SARS and are basically on-board. My thoughts go out to all who have suffered or lost friends from this terrible disease.
Last edited by lambada; 09/08/20 07:52 PM.
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How many responses until this post gets banned? It's amazing how little time it took for someone to suggest a ban about a topic on an international pandemic that affects every living human being on the planet even though it included a relevant musical song addressing the problem. Free speech does appear to be a problem in 2020's "cancel culture". I did not suggest a ban. My bad Scott. You have my sincere apology.
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If more politicians in this country were thinking about the next generation instead of the next election, it might be better for the United States and the world. -Claude Pepper, senator and representative (8 Sep 1900-1989)
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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“I lost a loved one ... I wear this mask to protect yours.”
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Most of us here are retired, obviously older and many of us have underlying conditions as well as simply age that makes us much more aware of all this. As retired folk, we do not have the pressures of working, raising a family etc.
Setting the virus aside for a moment, look at the economic side of this. Government stimulus is already beginning to run out. That's the only thing that has kept us out of a second Great Depression. They're not opening schools out of stupidity Graham, it's pure economics plus the actual quality of the education, the social development of children being able to interact with other kids plus all the teachers. That is extremely serious and very important. There are already plenty of articles now showing that remote learning at home is simply not working. We're risking a lifelong stunting of the kids social, economic and psychological growth.
That's just the kids, look at the parents who depend on schools as day care centers so they can go work. The schools don't open, what are they supposed to do? I'm asking for a serious answer to that question. I'm also asking for a serious answer to the question are we as individuals willing to risk a real, serious second Great Depression? A true depression is way worse than the various economic slowdowns from the dot com bubble crash, the real estate crash and other recessions.
You need to really think about these things and the ramifications of simply shutting things down for another six months or a year or however much longer it takes. The reality is this virus is going to be infecting and killing people for years and years so what is the path going forward? There is no immediate panacea coming.
Already about 30% of people are not going to line up to take a vaccine when one becomes available and I don't blame them. Ask yourself, do you want to be the first after it appears the trials may have been rushed? It normally takes over four years to develop and test a new vaccine and we're talking six months? We're looking at a another year at least before a vaccine begins to show a real result in controlling this and that's only "beginning to show" not some sudden "OK, we're all back to normal now". That's not happening so back to my earlier points. When should the schools reopen, when should everybody go back to work because there is not going to be any big change in the situation a year from now compared to what we have today.
These are very tough decisions with no easy answers or correct answers for that matter. It's the lessor of two evils. Keep everything shut down until we get the all clear signal which will take years. The world goes into the economic toilet, children get no education, they're set back years and may never catch up, our savings are gone our retirement plans get cut way back and we're all screwed. Or, everything goes back to normal but virus cases spike, deaths spike and we just have to eat it and like it.
Bob
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Bob, that seems quite the didactic statement! I’m assuredly not prepared to “eat and like” the fact that my good friend very recently died of Covid-19 and that thousands upon thousands of other deaths are yet to come. I’m far from ignorant re the economic issues you articulated; however, I think that it needs to be always tempered by constant recognition and mention of the loss and suffering of so many victims -- and ways to mitigate that (I'm not implying you don't feel that way) it just seems to so often get lost when things turn to economics.
It doesn’t have to be all or none. The situation is IMO contextual. If we had nationwide "opening protocols" based on science (in lieu of 50 states left to improvise) the situation would be far better. My county has, per capita, the highest rate in my state. Should not openings, mask wearing, etc., be tempered by those data relative to a county with 1/10 the rate? Suggesting that w/o wholesale opening up we are economically going down the toilet appears to dismiss what has happened in other countries ... countries that didn't go into mass denial, took action, and in many (but not all cases) are now in infinitely better shape than the USA.
Bud
PS Apologies to all for the non-music related post!
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It is obvious that education for children is an important issue, not only for the kids but for all of us.
We already have approximately 32 million adults in America who are considered to be illiterate; about 14% of the entire adult population cannot read.
It is also obvious that people MUST work. Nearly 80 percent of American workers (78 percent) say they’re living paycheck to paycheck. Without any money to feed your children, school is secondary at best.
It is also obvious that there is a certain amount of risk sending many thousands of kids to school. Who will educate your children if they bring Covid-19 home and you die?
At the end of the day it is parents responsibility to secure an education for their children. If the government can not or will not provide "safe" schooling parents must do so. This idea of cradle to grave protection from the government for every issue that comes along is not viable.
There are a lot of retired people, grand parents, and others who could take on the responsibility of teaching kids. Parents can teach at night when they come home from work. Hire private teachers when that is possible and pool resources with neighbors. This is actually already happening at the moment. Smaller groups, less risk, and a lot more work.
We can also just let people die, perhaps not a very pleasant option but a viable one. It is certainly what we do with other problems we are not willing to address. Tens of thousands of people in this country will die of drug addiction this and every year. Who is up in arms over that? Hundreds of thousands are homeless all over the country. Obesity, diabetes and other preventable conditions are all very common. 47,171 people committed suicide in 2017.
Yes it is unconscionably and beyond belief the pain and suffering caused by the death of those already pass from this pandemic. We can not change not even one death that has happened. We can effect the future by acting responsibly.
Humans are designed to survive these pandemics. We survived the "black death". It only killed half the population of Europe.
No country is having an easy time with this pandemic. There are no easy answers. This is a very unpleasant subject to be talking about anywhere and perhaps more so here on this forum. But... If you want to know how this relates to music, ask the next musician you see where he is working currently.
Best of luck to all of use,
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 09/09/20 11:27 AM.
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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It doesn’t have to be all or none. What I found odd about that is the implication that there is such a thing as acceptable losses. Open up the schools and send everybody back to work in crowded offices because "not that many" people will die. Where's the line where it becomes "not too many"? In Vietnam apparently that was about 58,000. in World War 2 it was about 407,000. So in this context, people should be welcomed to shoehorn into every bar in the country because, lord knows, "IT'S OUR RIGHT" to drink and drive? And spread the most heinous virus we have known in our (yours and mine) 70-ish years of life? Who accepts the responsibility when that mother of 5 who is given the choice "Come back to work NOW or lose your job forever" dies from Covid 90 days later? THIS is the mentality that is going to make this worse before it gets better.  This CEMENTHEAD wants to send kids back to school WHILE ADMITTING they are going get sick. "Acceptable losses". This is NOT the flu and all the morons who compare it to the flu should be lined up against a wall and shot. Until THEY have Covid, on what do they base that assessment? I had to go get dog food yesterday. As I was in line paying, the guy in front of me did not have a mask on. I asked him why. He said he didn't need it. I dropped my stuff, stepped up chest against chest and said "I say you DO need one. And I am going to kick you out of the store myself if this cashier doesn't." He glared at me and left. I then asked for a manager. The manager came out and I asked why they have a sign on the door demanding masks. He said what I though he would say. And I asked. Then why was your employee here happy to wait on a customer who defied that demand and was willing to put all the rest of us at risk? More importantly, is this the norm? You post a sign but don't enforce it? I think maybe this kid needs a week off without pay, and if you don't I will follow up the ladder until YOU are unemployed. Your serve." HE tried to duck me by saying "I'll handle it sir." But I did not relent. I said "I'll wait right here and see HOW you handle it. And this is a public place. You can't force me to leave. Feel free to call police and we can all talk about why you refuse to enforce the governor's order that customers must wear masks. Still your serve." And he glared at me and told the cashier to take the rest of the day off. I am going back tomorrow. If she's there, it starts again. When I am at risk because others are rude and inconsiderate, I will stand my ground. Every time. To be honest, I kind of wish the customer I told off had become ignorant and stood up to me. That would not have ended well for him. Why can't everybody cooperate? "Acceptable losses" my a**.
Last edited by eddie1261; 09/09/20 11:45 AM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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I rather be living poor, than well off six feet under.
The good part is that a lot of bright minds are working day and night to find a cure and I believe we are getting very close to understanding and beating this monster.
P.S. One of the best investments I made when this thing paralyzed schools, I bought my son e-reader and connected it to a big public library. Since March, he read dozens of books outside of school curriculum. I am very proud of him.
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 This!
Last edited by eddie1261; 09/09/20 11:41 AM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Eddie,
It turns out that you and I are more alike than we thought, ... except for musical tastes.
Your points are very well stated and in my not so humble opinion, correct.
People who think their "freedom" to not wear a mask outweighs your right to expect others to follow easy and basic protocols during an international pandemic infuriate me.
If it wasn't for the Covid deniers and people who refuse to wear a mask, we could drastically reduce the number of deaths and infections.
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Bob, this is a generation who has never been taught about respect. A very selfish generation who has never heard the word "no". If need be, I am happy to give respect lessons. I didn't live through 18 months in a war zone so some idiot could kill me by sneezing on me here in the US.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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Bob, this is a generation who has never been taught about respect. A very selfish generation who has never heard the word "no". If need be, I am happy to give respect lessons. I didn't live through 18 months in a war zone so some idiot could kill me by sneezing on me here in the US. Eddie, you are putting too much blame on the young people. Young people ALWAYS behave recklessly. You did. I did. We know that. The vast majority at Sturgis were not young people! The vast majority who attend rallies unmasked are not young people. And on and on! The blame lies with the old people in charge and the "grownups" who follow them even when they say stupid things like "it will disappear like magic" and "it is no worse than the flu".
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I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Agreed Mario. And once they make the determination there's no way to prove it either way. By that logic if 2 gangs shoot it out and 50 people die and they test positive for Covid, they blame Covid and not the gang gunfight. And ironically that clip[ was from Illinois, where most of the gang related shootings happen.
Current 2020 tally in Chicago is 2914 shot, 496 killed. But according to that Beetlejuice looking mayor, they have it all under control.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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2. Send it to us.
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............... But according to that Beetlejuice looking mayor......................
ROTFLMAO!
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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A house divided cannot stand. The cable channels have lost it. We look to alternative journalists for relief and find a goat rodeo -- people tripping over each other to be first with the next sensational story, truth be damned. Elected reps have drifted so far from the original purpose of government that they can be considered generally useless, if not harmful. Then a real crisis comes along and the chickens come home to roost. The official story now seems to be Chinese bio-weapon. That be the case, they can simply keep releasing the virus where ever and when ever.
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The official story now seems to be Chinese bio-weapon. Really? Sounds like you're getting your "news" from some place even wackier than cable!
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that Beetlejuice looking mayor Have you looked into a mirror lately?
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that Beetlejuice looking mayor Have you looked into a mirror lately? Daily!! I'm GORGEOUS!!!!
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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Re the Covid fatality count. It was said months ago by CDC I think that just to "attempt" to keep that count consistent nationwide, if someone dies and they have Covid in their system then regardless of what else they have, it's counted as a Covid death. That's fine but news reports NEVER say anything about that so yes I agree, the death count reports are over hyped and should be put into context. The other thing is the false positive case numbers. Have any of you seen the NY Times article from last week about that? Here's the opening teaser: The standard tests are diagnosing huge numbers of people who may be carrying relatively insignificant amounts of the virus.
Most of these people are not likely to be contagious, and identifying them may contribute to bottlenecks that prevent those who are contagious from being found in time.https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.htmlIt's not behind a paywall, just hit the Continue arrow in the right of the popup window. The article is long and detailed and to me it's absolutely astounding in it's implications. It has not been picked up by anybody, not on the right, not on the left and I really don't get it. Bob
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The official story now seems to be Chinese bio-weapon. Really? Sounds like you're getting your "news" from some place even wackier than cable! Yeah, and being spread by no less than former heads of the CIA and MI6, Mike Pompeo and Richard Dearlove. https://news.sky.com/story/former-head-of-mi6-says-theory-coronavirus-was-made-in-wuhan-lab-must-not-be-dismissed-as-conspiracy-12021693As the story is told, the virus project was in the hands of the bio-weapons research labs in Fort Detrick, MD., and Madison Wisconsin. When the program was closed around 2000, it was transferred to the Wuhan lab with the goal of making the virus more contageous. That connection becomes worth investigating when the role of China in spreading the disease is considered. https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/ From the Article: According to a New York Times study of cellphone data from China, 175,000 people leave Wuhan that day. According to global travel data research firm OAG, 21 countries have direct flights to Wuhan. In the first quarter of 2019 for comparison, 13,267 air passengers traveled from Wuhan, China, to destinations in the United States, or about 4,422 per month. The U.S. government would not bar foreign nationals who had traveled to China from entering the country for another month.-------------- Call these whacky theories if you want, John. As for me, at my age and condition, I am taking every precaution, and, not as much as you might think, for myself, but more to avoid contracting the virus and spreading it to someone whose life is ahead of them.
Last edited by edshaw; 09/10/20 02:01 AM.
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Questions...
How many lost lives is a fair price to pay to keep us out of a depression?
For those promoting going back to normal, would you volunteer to be executed by lethal injection or any another method of your choice next week if your death would save the economy?
If not, do you feel it's fair to ask others to do that?
Do you want the children to go back to school, and when granny dies, know it was their fault and live with that guilt?
Since an estimated 1/3 of even young and asymptomatic people are ending up with permanent organ damage (heart, lung, kidney, brain) does the price of our future health care burden justify a premature opening?
When the gov't gives the upper 5% trillions of dollars in tax cuts is it wrong to spend trillions to keep the unemployed due to a shut down alive?
It's been revealed that Trump knew how severe this disease was from day one and intentionally downplayed it for 6 weeks telling us it was nothing to worry about, now we have 1/3 COVID cases and deaths in the entire world, and we certainly don't have 1/3 of the world's population. We don't even have 1/3 the population of China. Doesn't the responsibility of the price of relief fall squarely on his shoulders? Shouldn't he give his entire fortune up before asking anyone else to give up a dollar?
Why aren't we taxing the rich to save the economy? People like Bezos, Gates, Buffett and the rest of the upper 5% could lose 90% of their fortunes and it wouldn't affect their life style one bit. After all, without a working class who can afford to buy their products?
Why do we allow "news" outlets to give 'pants on fire' lies disguised as news and not have a big flashing "OPINION" banner over these stories. Shouldn't the public and the opposition be able to sue the 'news' for bald faced lies and after so many losses, have them lose their license? Free speech doesn't give you the right to bear false witness.
This goes to government as well. Shouldn't habitual liars be kicked out of office? Our governor fired the person running the COVID statistics in our state because she refused to 'fudge the figures' and drastically reduce the number of sick and dead. Didn't the wrong person get fired?
Shouldn't our leaders be fact checked and if caught intentionally trying to deceive the people who put them in office shouldn't they be fired? They are our employees and isn't that what a good boss does?
My sister-in-law almost died because she believed Trump's intentional lies and her son and his fiance were also in the hospital fighting for their lives.
Questions, just questions.
Insights and incites by Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 09/10/20 03:01 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Well said, Notes. Well said indeed!
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The official story now seems to be Chinese bio-weapon....
Yeah, and being spread by no less than former heads of the CIA and MI6, Mike Pompeo and Richard Dearlove. The articles you linked don't actually say the idea that a "Chinese bio-weapon" is the "official story." Richard Dearlove was the head of MI6 from 1999 to 2004. He offers his personal belief that the virus is a made in a laboratory. This goes against the British intelligence community, which has declared it not man-made. He's careful not to say it's a "bio-weapon": "I am not saying anything other than it was the result of an accident and that the virus is the consequence of gain-of-function experiments that were being conducted in Wuhan, which I don't think are particularly sinister." The article also says the US intelligence community doesn't think a "Chinese bio-weapon" is the most likely explanation: The US intelligence community took the unusual step of releasing a statement to say it concurred with the consensus view that the disease was not man-made, but spies are investigating whether the virus might have been held in a laboratory and leaked accidentally. Since the virus lacks markers that indicate that it was created in a laboratory, most scientists also consider "Chinese bio-weapon" as the unlikely explanation for the virus. That's not to say that it's impossible that the virus is man-made, or that it can't be part of a Chinese bio-weapon program. But the article doesn't support the conclusion that "Chinese bio-weapon" is the "official story" for the virus. In fact, it says the opposite. The second article you cite gives a long list of lies that China gave about the Corona virus. However, nowhere does it suggest that virus is a "Chinese bio-weapon". That said (and most importantly): Thumbs up on looking out for others! Stay safe. 
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I don’t know about your part of the world but here in my part of the world the incidence of common cold and flu has greatly reduced this year. They say that this is the effect of social distancing (including masks) and increased hygiene such as hand washing.
So it seems there are benefits in treating COVID with respect. Albeit I miss the freedom and carefree way of life.
My thoughts
Tony
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Bob, that seems quite the didactic statement! I’m assuredly not prepared to “eat and like” the fact that my good friend very recently died of Covid-19 and that thousands upon thousands of other deaths are yet to come. I’m far from ignorant re the economic issues you articulated; however, I think that it needs to be always tempered by constant recognition and mention of the loss and suffering of so many victims -- and ways to mitigate that (I'm not implying you don't feel that way) it just seems to so often get lost when things turn to economics.
It doesn’t have to be all or none. The situation is IMO contextual. If we had nationwide "opening protocols" based on science (in lieu of 50 states left to improvise) the situation would be far better. My county has, per capita, the highest rate in my state. Should not openings, mask wearing, etc., be tempered by those data relative to a county with 1/10 the rate? Suggesting that w/o wholesale opening up we are economically going down the toilet appears to dismiss what has happened in other countries ... countries that didn't go into mass denial, took action, and in many (but not all cases) are now in infinitely better shape than the USA.
Bud
PS Apologies to all for the non-music related post!
I agree about contextual, but then you speak of nationwide protocols which I actually believe the CDC has provided. Our country runs a specific way and the States have a lot of power that the federal government does not or cannot infringe upon. Education is a state run enterprise with every state having different rules and requirements, a national plan doesn't make sense in a state like Wyoming with cases in the single digits each day compared to a state like California with thousands daily. Countries that did not shut down at all had no worse or better outcomes, generally speaking. Many studies recently have shown that the shutdowns have caused some much worse conditions and problems than the virus has, suicides spiking, domestic violence spiking etc. Just an opinion no better or worse than anyone else's.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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Questions...
It's been revealed that Trump knew how severe this disease was from day one and intentionally downplayed it for 6 weeks telling us it was nothing to worry about, now we have 1/3 COVID cases and deaths in the entire world, and we certainly don't have 1/3 of the world's population. We don't even have 1/3 the population of China. Doesn't the responsibility of the price of relief fall squarely on his shoulders? Shouldn't he give his entire fortune up before asking anyone else to give up a dollar?
Dr. Anthony Fauci in response to a question about Trump's conduct at the beginning: “I didn't get any sense that he was distorting anything. I mean in my discussions with him, they were always straightforward about the concerns that we had. We related that to him. And when he would go out, I'd hear him discussing the same sort of things.” Trump banned incoming flights from China on January 27, yet on February 24 Nancy Pelosi was seen in a video, since deleted from her Twitter account, encouraging people to visit San Francisco’s Chinatown for a New Year’s Celebration. No masks, no social distancing, no regard for the virus she now claims the president should have been doing something about at the very moment she stood in a crowd. despite what the president may have known in January and February, the science behind social distancing and mask-wearing wasn’t being pushed at the time. The World Health Organization declared the virus a global pandemic on March 11, and the president responded the next day by banning incoming flights from 26 European nations in an effort to slow the spread. Within a week we were all locked at home watching “Tiger King,” as part of a 15-day initiative to flatten the curve, give or take 180 days. The problem with all of this is that many things stated on "news" programs are opinion, which was not always the case. Once people decided to make the whole thing political any idea of getting a straight answer about anything went out the window. Just yesterday every Senate democrat voted against the Senate's version of a stimulus bill. Why? Because it didn't include things that have nothing to do with stimulus or helping people. Nothing will ever get done at this rate. Having said all that I respect everyone's right to have their own opinion, I served 20 years on the Navy in my way to try to defend that right. So don't take anything I have said here as an attack.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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Dr. Anthony Fauci in response to a question about Trump's conduct at the beginning: “I didn't get any sense that he was distorting anything. I mean in my discussions with him, they were always straightforward about the concerns that we had. We related that to him. And when he would go out, I'd hear him discussing the same sort of things.” We all watched the VIDEO of day after day as Dr. Fauci had to phrase everything so carefully to keep from upsetting his boss while his boss kept downplaying the danger and suggesting incredibly stupid things like injecting bleach. Now we have audio recording of trump admitting he intentionally played down the danger while Americans DIED! Can you even imagine withholding reports of a hurricane because you don't want to panic people? This pandemic has already killed almost 200,000 Americans! Trump banned incoming flights from China on January 27 Another inconvenient FACT is that ban still allowed 40,000 people to travel here from China! They brought COVID in in great numbers. yet on February 24 Nancy Pelosi was seen in a video, since deleted from her Twitter account, encouraging people to visit San Francisco’s Chinatown for a New Year’s Celebration Another FACT...Pelosi is not president! despite what the president may have known in January and February, the science behind social distancing and mask-wearing wasn’t being pushed at the time. Another inconvenient fact...Yesterday he held a rally with thousands of unmasked people who were NOT social distancing! The problem with all of this is that many things stated on "news" programs are opinion, which was not always the case. Once people decided to make the whole thing political any idea of getting a straight answer about anything went out the window. No, there are plenty of facts available but some are just too hard-headed to heed them! No doubt there has been a lot of political stuff but in 2020 it ceased to be political and instead is CRIMINAL as trump continues to let Americans die because he won't support a unified scientific approach to solving this problem. Just yesterday every Senate democrat voted against the Senate's version of a stimulus bill. Why? Because it didn't include things that have nothing to do with stimulus or helping people. Nothing will ever get done at this rate. The rejected GOP "stimulus" bill cut out money for a second round of stimulus checks that were included in an earlier GOP proposal. And it doesn't offer new funding for cash-strapped states. Oh and Republican Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., voted with Democrats in opposing the bill The Dems passed a comprehensive bill in MAY but the senate refused to even vote on it!
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I do have to say that I'm not at all surprised by the revelations in Woodward's book about trump lying about Covid from the beginning. If I found anything surprising it would be that anyone would believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
We've almost became numb to the lying since it's now expected on a daily basis about every subject. It's a sad time for our nation.
An international pandemic killing hundreds of thousands of people, police brutality at unprecedented levels, race riots in the streets, peaceful protesters having tear gas and flash bangs used on them to move them back so trump can have a photo op in front of a church, our wounded and fallen veterans being called "losers and suckers", our Generals being called "babies and p*****s", our country taking a back seat to the world on climate change, etc.
We never would have tolerated this kind of behavior before from the oval office. Why are we tolerating all of this now?
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To start with, I'm a +50 year registered independent, moderate voter. I lean a little left on social issues and a little right on fiscal ones. I don't like either extreme.
I'm the swing voter both parties try to woo and I've criticized and/or applauded politicians from both sides of the divide.I've posted these before and got a lot of flack. Both FOX and MSNBC give over 50% lies. Don't believe either one. From Politifact, a Pulitzer prize fact checker that treats and/or trashes both left and right sides equally. They are simply fact checkers, not fake news agents or news agents of any kind.  Add the numbers up. Can you trust either FOX or MSNBC to tell you the truth? Those who trash CNN and NPR need to wake up. You are the victims of fake news. I understand they disagree with FOX and MSNBC a lot, but remember FOX and MSNBC both lie a lot. CNN and NPR are quite reliable. They have the best truth scores. Also from Politifact:  I believe nothing left of The Atlantic or right of The Hill. These two lean left and right but are basically reliable. You can believe what you want, but if you choose to believe a source that feeds you over 50% lies, you are being played. <...>Having said all that I respect everyone's right to have their own opinion, I served 20 years on the Navy in my way to try to defend that right. So don't take anything I have said here as an attack. First of all, thank you for your service to our country. According to Trump are you a loser or a sucker? My daughter and grand-daughter are both currently serving as is my son-in-law, they have done tours in the middle east combat zones and not one of them is a loser or sucker. They are patriots serving our country (without begging out due to ficticious heel spurs). My daughter and son-in-law are lifers. I resent Trump's comments and his continued trashing of those who gave the ultimate sacrifice and the Gold Star families. If Pelosi or Obama called service men or women losers, what would you say to that? @edshaw Do you really think the Chinese would develop a bio-weapon and let it loose on their own population? I find that very hard to believe. The fact is Trump lied for 6 weeks and mega-thousands of people died directly because of that. IMO that's mass murder. Meanwhile the politicians were adjusting their stock portfolios putting their financial gains in front of the lives of their constituents. Trump lied, people died. Trump was a super-spreader of this virus because he told us; not to wear masks, it's a hoax, it'll disappear by may, it's just the flu, and so on. Trump fired the pandemic team experts before the virus hit. Trump ignored the medical exports and instead told us to do stupid things like inject bleach into our veins. This is not what I think is presidential action. Sorry to be so political, but this about the virus, and this was botched by the people in charge. I can't discuss it without being political.
I have no vendetta against either party, I have voted for Democrats, Republicans and 'third party' candidates in the past. The fact is this administration failed to protect the people they are responsible for protecting.
You can quote all the FOX talking points you like, but remember when FOX news pundits are fact checked, 60% of what they say ranges from "Mostly false" to "Pants On Fire" lies. Seek the truth, not what supports your chosen candidate. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Off-Topic
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,820
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,820 |
Everybody keep your damn politics to yourself. This is a music site not a political forum site.
Administrators please close and lock this thread.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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Forums66
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