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#621858 - 11/05/20 09:18 AM [Off-Topic] NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ??
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justanoldmuso Offline
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NEW MACS ??/NEW ARM PROCESSORS ???ANY INFO ??

reading on the net bout this topic.
maybe an announcement this month ?? anyone got info. ?? processor speed etc etc.
it would be interesting if a mac mini arm based was priced for budget buyers.
4 ghz processor plus ssd for 700 bucks say.
with thunderbolt etc.
would be a big sales item imho.

the problem is budget buyers can buy xeon desktops (top intel processor.) based refurbs with win 7 or 10 on , which a user can stuff in multiple ssd's for around 6 or 700 bucks.
these xeons will run a slew of traks and plug ins .
trouble is these powerfull xeon refurbs sell fast.

anyhoo is there an apple announcement in november ??



Edited by justanoldmuso (11/05/20 09:20 AM)
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#621871 - 11/05/20 12:13 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: justanoldmuso]
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Simon - PG Music Offline
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We have one of those ARM development systems in the office (Mac Mini) and we have been doing some testing on it. Can't say a lot about it as I haven't used it myself, but from what I hear BB 2020 is working fine on it.

*edit* I believe these are the specs for it: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/specs/mac-mini-developer-transition-kit-dtk-specs.html


Edited by Simon - PG Music (11/05/20 12:15 PM)
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#621880 - 11/05/20 01:14 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: Simon - PG Music]
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justanoldmuso Offline
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simon. respect and thanks for the reply.
i fully understand if you can only give so much info out.
(eg an NDA in place.)
but my interest is "piqued".
some q's. / metrics that interest me.

1.from totally cold boot, (not sleep mode), how long to boot to desktop in secs.
2. how long in secs to boot from the desktop into biab ?
3. how long in secs to boot from the desktop into apps like garageband and logic pro ?
4. assuming a biab song 3 and a half minutes long with every trak an RT (no plug ins.)
how long to export the stereo song wav , once biab is instructed to do so.
5. is everything snappy and fluid ??



respect.
oldmuso.

simon re dda console more respect lol.


Edited by justanoldmuso (11/05/20 01:19 PM)
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#621881 - 11/05/20 01:42 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: justanoldmuso]
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Pipeline Offline
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Here is a cheap way https://www.tonymacx86.com/ why pay more for the same Intel hardware.
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#621894 - 11/05/20 04:35 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: Pipeline]
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justanoldmuso Offline
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pipeline.
re arm macs.
i'm just trying to keep an open mind.
you make a valid point. i just wish apple would see
the huge untapped market for affordable power machines.
10 ghz mini. lol.

my problem is i see these amazing xeon refurb deals that will blow the doors off for most project studios cos you can load them up with ssd's/ram etc.
example.
https://www.staples.ca/products/2980177-en-hp-refurbished-z440-workstation-gaming-desktop-35-ghz-intel-xeon-1630-v3-500-gb-hdd-256-gb-ssd-16-gb-ddr3-windows-10-pro
600 to 700 bucks.
also hp and dell and lenovo have sometimes amazeing deals
on refurb xeons and i7's etc on their web sites.
this type of machine (as your a reaper/biab/rb user) will be superb for that daw combo, or any daw combo for little money for that matter. they also have 1 yr warranty often.
just gotta test before buying.
you prolly know the mainboards are "industrial quality "often , compared to normal retail fare.
it amazes me that more pg users havent discovered these xeons (or i7's for that matter), and just go buy any old computer
which often costs way more.

see my dilemma ??

btw. thanks for that link. interesting info.
respect.
oldmuso.
ps pg should give you an award for your help on these forums.


Edited by justanoldmuso (11/05/20 04:38 PM)
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#621904 - 11/05/20 05:31 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: justanoldmuso]
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Pipeline Offline
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#621938 - 11/06/20 04:25 AM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: Pipeline]
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justanoldmuso Offline
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pipeline.
(your the man.)
wait. are you saying that people are running mac os on those cheap refurb xeon beasts per your link ??
i was of the understanding people were doing that on new custom pc builds with expensive processors.
(per GS forums.)

what is really odd is any refurb ive bought ive had no win problems with.
my suspician is the people doing the refurb know their stuff.
very fast cold boots also.
that particular hp beast i linked to, i would replace the one non ssd drive with an ssd drive.
so it had 2 ssd's. i think certain refurbs will take 4 ssd's, depending on config.
that xeon has 8 usb 3 ports .

its amazeing. i'm seeing even under 200 buck i5 refurbs.
perfectly good for running biab/rb/reaps as long as one dont go nuts with a slew of over the top cpu hogging plug ins.
ie 250 traks, 250 plug ins lol.

i do like the mac mini. its cute. like the PI.
i'd just like to know some performance metrics.
whats your rig ?(i7/ssd ?)

btw i was reading up on slate digital.
new interface, custom chip engineering ?
one millisecond latency ? kinda knocked me for six.
but outta my budget.
it seems more sub 3 ms interfaces are starting to come out ? good times coming.
whats your read on usb4 ?? wicked transfer speed.

best.
oldmuso.


Edited by justanoldmuso (11/06/20 04:27 AM)
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#621986 - 11/06/20 11:53 AM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: justanoldmuso]
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Pipeline Offline
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i5 SSD 16GB
SSD makes the main difference.
Refurbished are fine, plenty of room in that for more drives, you can multiboot any OS on it.
That will be fine for Biab.
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#621990 - 11/06/20 12:17 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 05/19/20
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Simon - PG Music Offline
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Posts: 443
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
simon. respect and thanks for the reply.
i fully understand if you can only give so much info out.
(eg an NDA in place.)
but my interest is "piqued".
some q's. / metrics that interest me.

1.from totally cold boot, (not sleep mode), how long to boot to desktop in secs.
2. how long in secs to boot from the desktop into biab ?
3. how long in secs to boot from the desktop into apps like garageband and logic pro ?
4. assuming a biab song 3 and a half minutes long with every trak an RT (no plug ins.)
how long to export the stereo song wav , once biab is instructed to do so.
5. is everything snappy and fluid ??



respect.
oldmuso.



I can't comment at all, because I haven't used it at all myself. There are a few benchmarks floating around though: https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/mac/apple-arm-powered-mac-mini-benchmark-developers/
A thing to keep in mind though is that since it's an ARM chip, any existing apps that aren't developed for ARM are gonna be running through Rosetta 2, and that can slow things down (much like Rosetta when Apple moved from PPC to Intel) as now you're having to emulate a CISC architecture on a RISC chip.


Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso

simon re dda console more respect lol.



Word!



Regarding refurb computers, every refurb I've ever bought has been well worth it. Refurb Mac computers, refurb HP desktops and laptops, refurb Lenovo, always good, and much faster and cheaper than something brand new.



Regarding USB4 for audio interfaces, I don't believe it's necessary. Companies have made sub-3ms interfaces on USB2 over a decade ago (Fireface UC as an example)! Certainly the higher data speed is good, but lets do the math - one channel at 24-bit 192khz is around 4.6mbps, and USB 2.0 is around 480mbps, so that's not an issue for a few dozen channels. Going further, at 480mbps a single 24-bit sample takes about 50 nanoseconds to transfer. USB 3.0 cuts those figures by 10, and USB 4.0 would cut it again by 8.

Realistically, you can expect USB2 to have a lot of overhead which can slow things down a little, but the big bottleneck with latency is always gonna be drivers and CPU.
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#622005 - 11/06/20 01:43 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: Simon - PG Music]
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justanoldmuso Offline
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simon.
1.as always spot on.
nice to meet a kindred refurb spirit.
cant beat them.
2.re dda. mic pre's.
its fun to try and build ones own mic pre's.
(on gearslutz is geekslutz forum. )
lots of vintage schems on net .
i just stay away from tubes cos they scare me lol.
for fun google the 5 dollar mic pre schematic.
then go to gearslutz, put in 5 dollar mic pre in search.
hilarious thread where it fooled some engrs in tests
against expensive pre's.
3. usb4. yup good points.

best.
oldmuso.
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#622451 - 11/09/20 06:02 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 443
Simon - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 443
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
simon.
1.as always spot on.
nice to meet a kindred refurb spirit.
cant beat them.
2.re dda. mic pre's.
its fun to try and build ones own mic pre's.
(on gearslutz is geekslutz forum. )
lots of vintage schems on net .
i just stay away from tubes cos they scare me lol.
for fun google the 5 dollar mic pre schematic.
then go to gearslutz, put in 5 dollar mic pre in search.
hilarious thread where it fooled some engrs in tests
against expensive pre's.
3. usb4. yup good points.

best.
oldmuso.



The DDA mic pre uses nearly the same chip as the 5-dollar mic pre (I think the INA217 or similar), just with a bit more filtering and a good power supply (the PSU is in my rack and does all the AC-DC conversion so the board doesn't have any 60hz AC anywhere near it).

I actually built a handful of the 5-dollar mic preamps (with the SSM2019 chip rather than the INA217, but similar enough), but rather than running from a stack of 9v batteries I built some beefy +-15v power supplies and added a switchable pad and high pass - then built them into a couple shielded enclosures (shielded with foil tape on the inside - added nearly 20db noise reduction), and eventually rackmounted a stereo pair with a fat toroidal power transformer.

We put the 4 of them up against everything we had in the studio (which included a pair of API 512C, an LA-610 MKii, an Avalon 737, a Drawmer 1960, a TL Audio CL-1, and the preamps in an SSL Duality) and - there was no winner. They were all equally good. Popular vote were that my slightly-more-than-five-dollar preamps were the most similar to the Avalon, interestingly enough!

Attached a pic of my "5-dollar" preamps.


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#622510 - 11/10/20 03:40 AM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: Simon - PG Music]
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Posts: 351
justanoldmuso Offline
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simon.
holy moly. i used to do diy.
my wife says "do the dishes" lol.
uber nice.
yeh the thing that drove me nuts was the bi polar op amp
power supplies. i think there are chips to do that now.
ps did you see my latency thread and the fact slate digital
under 1ms ??. outside my budget.
best.
oldmuso.
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#622905 - 11/12/20 04:15 PM [Off-Topic] Re: NEW ARM BASED MACS. ANY INFO ?? [Re: justanoldmuso]
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Simon - PG Music Offline
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Thanks! The power supplies I designed for these are a fairly standard dual linear supply, from a centre tapped transformer, 7815 and 7915 regulators and an LM317 for +48v. Nothing too fancy, just trying to make them as clean as possible without introducing any switching noise. I measured EIN at around -120db, which is similar to the aforementioned Avalons and APIs.

Just saw your thread about latency, I'll have a proper look tomorrow.
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