You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#624305 - 11/21/20 05:30 PM [Beginners Forum] Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Scott1578 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
New BIAB user, first post, please have mercy if my questions are laughable.

After entering a few songs from the Real Book to practice with I began to wonder about key changes. Does BIAB AI recognize these changes on its own and act accordingly or must I alert the program to them? And is this possible?

If so please let me know. You don't have to define the procedure if its doable. Just let me know that it is and I'll figure it out.

Thanks!!!

Top
#624324 - 11/21/20 06:56 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Welcome to the forum.

Yes, you can (and should) set the initial key signature on the main chord sheet, and yes, using F5, you can change it at any measure.

I’m not entirely sure how the program’s AI uses this but I do know it makes a major difference in notation. When you enter notation, the key signature determines the enharmonic spelling of a note (for example, is it G# or Ab). Some folks never change the key signature from the default key of C and the program plays a song with any chords. Whether or not it plays it ‘better’ using the right key signature, I really don’t know. I just write it correctly anyway.

Does that help?
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#624346 - 11/22/20 04:10 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12146
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12146
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Welcome also.

Yes, good advice above.

Select the bar that you wish to change the key signature, press function key <F5> and you are presented with a list of options that you can adjust from that point forward for the song.


Attachments
Post attachments only available when logged in
_________________________
BIAB & RB2021(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#624410 - 11/22/20 03:21 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Scott1578 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Thanks guys for the welcome and the advice. That F5 key tip is appreciated. I always make sure I set the proper initial key for the chord sheet.

The thing I'm getting at is that though jazz lead sheets give you the key that the song starts in, they don't show the key changes that often occur within the tune.

With analysis of the chords a musician can figure out where these key changes happen and use the F5 function to insert the changes. It's a chore but it can be done.

What I'm really asking is whether BIAB is doing this chore on its own when you press Generate.

Sorry if the question makes no sense smile

Top
#624412 - 11/22/20 03:29 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7302
Loc: Wauconda, Il.
MusicStudent Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7302
Loc: Wauconda, Il.
I don't think it will make any diff at all in the way it will sound or play. But that is just my experience with it.

Top
#624422 - 11/22/20 04:52 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
This is getting more interesting.

First, it is normal that a jazz song does not use frequent key changes. It’s expected that there may be frequent modulations. The bridge key may change but not elsewhere.

Increasingly, I see more complicated compositions just written in C concert, with no attempt to reduce the accidentals by key signatures.

As my earlier reply indicated, I don’t know if it makes a difference for you to enter frequent key signatures in BIAB. The program does use AI but it’s proprietary how it works. We are pretty sure it has a ‘look ahead’ capability to see the possible key change just from the chord progression.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#624474 - 11/23/20 09:18 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6808
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6808
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Hello Scott1578, Welcome to the forum and to Band-in-a-Box or BiaB for short.

BiaB relies on the selected style for much of the arrangement feel of a song similar in manner to the way a musician will feel his or her way through a song the first time they are playing an unfamiliar song. Additionally BiaB uses artificial intelligence and a look ahead feature to better interpret the chord sheet. Last there has been some observational feedback from users that midi data in the Melody and/or Soloist tracks is read by the program and used to influence how the BiaB program interprets a chord chart.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (814) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 2004, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#624514 - 11/23/20 03:49 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Scott1578 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Thanks for that Matt. I think there is some general confusion amongst musicians about what constitutes a true key change. Some think any modulation can be considered a change of key. But I think after reading your comment this isn't necessarily so. Ha ha, you've got me scouring the internet for knowledge on the subject. To date I can't find a dispute to your argument.

Also thanks for the reassurance that BIAB AI looks ahead and I don't have to worry if it will get things mostly right. It's a load off my mind to know that I can just enter my lead sheets and go with it.

Top
#624515 - 11/23/20 03:52 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Scott1578 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Thanks MusicStudent, I think you're right.

Top
#624528 - 11/23/20 04:22 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Scott1578 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the welcome and the reply. You pretty much echoed Matt's response to my questions. And I take that from yours's and Matt's considerable number of "tweets" that you both understand the program very well. So I trust in what you say. It puts me at ease.

Top
#624533 - 11/23/20 05:24 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Originally Posted By: Scott1578
Thanks for that Matt. I think there is some general confusion amongst musicians about what constitutes a true key change. Some think any modulation can be considered a change of key. But I think after reading your comment this isn't necessarily so. Ha ha, you've got me scouring the internet for knowledge on the subject. To date I can't find a dispute to your argument.

Also thanks for the reassurance that BIAB AI looks ahead and I don't have to worry if it will get things mostly right. It's a load off my mind to know that I can just enter my lead sheets and go with it.
Don't give up so easily. I may not be correct about it making no difference in BIAB whether you set many key changes or not. This really merits further testing.

As for those who would consider any modulation a change of key, I do understand. I think this stems from the way jazz theory is taught now, with an emphasis on scales and modes. "In my day" - the early 1960s - we learned it more organically.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#624823 - 11/24/20 03:59 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Scott1578 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Well if you've been playing since the 60's and you think BIAB is doing a decent job at interpreting the changes, that's good enough for me smile By the way I love the jazz that came out of the 60's and I agree it sounds very organic.

As for needed further testing you may be right, but it's not gonna be done by me. I don't want to work. I just want to to bang on the drum all day laugh

Top
#624842 - 11/24/20 05:49 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Enjoy! I know I do. Every song I’ve written in the last 28 years has been composed using BIAB.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#625137 - 11/25/20 03:51 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Scott1578 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Thanks buddy. That testament is good enough for me! BIAB all the way.

Top
#625158 - 11/25/20 05:15 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Scott1578]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I look forward to hearing what you come up with. As Peter Gannon (PG in PG Music) says, have fun.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#625380 - 11/26/20 03:23 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Scott1578 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
grin!!

Top


PG Music News
The Band-in-a-Box® 2021 49-PAK for Windows!

Don't forget to boost your Band-in-a-Box® purchase with the 2021 49-PAK for only $49!

What will you get when you add the 2021 49-PAK to your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 order?
-40 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks
-Instrumental Studies 14: Country Rock Blues Shuffle Soloing
-Look Ma! More MIDI 6
-MIDI SuperTracks Set 33: More Bass
-14 Bonus RealDrums "Singles"
-Artist Performance Set 10: More Celtic Flute with Geoff Kelly
-MultiStyles PAK 1
-"Rediscovered" RealTracks Styles
-Instrumental Studies 15: Minor Jazz Blues Guitar Soloing
-Look Ma! More MIDI 5
-MIDI SuperTracks Set 32: Jazz, New Age and Gospel Keys
-RealCharts for all existing and new RealDrums

The 2021 49-PAK is now included in the 2021 UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition!

Watch the video summarizing the 2021-49PAK.

Visit the product page.

Band-in-a-Box® Resource: Downloading Your Purchase

Did you know... when you order your copy of Band-in-a-Box® from our website you will receive the installation files to download your order, even if you're having it shipped!

You can access these files within the My Products section of your online account.

Downloading the program is such a convenient way to get started with Band-in-a-Box®! To learn more about how to download your purchase, please review the written tutorials we've created for Windows and Mac.

RealBand 2021 Includes 64-bit PG DX Plugins Presets!

Download the latest update for RealBand 2021 to addpresets for 64-bit PG DX plugins!

Release notes (build 3c, Jan 7 2021):
-Fixed: Running 32-bit realband.exe (Version 2020) is now supported.
-Added: Presets for 64-bit PG DX plugins.

The Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows® Special ENDS January 15th!

IT'S YOUR LAST WEEKEND TO SAVE UP TO 50% ON YOUR BAND-IN-A-BOX® UPGRADE!

We've extended our SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Upgrade purchases until January 15, 2021, so there is still a little time left to save up to 50% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows Upgrade!

Customers LOVE Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows with over 50 new features, plus the 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, Artist Performances, Bonus RealDrums "Singles," RealDrums transcriptions, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 10, the 2021 Free Bonus PAK, and 2021 49-PAK!

We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2021 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks) upgrade it to the 2021 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

Learn more about all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows

If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!

Xtra Styles PAK 10 & MultiStyles PAK 1 - Special Extended to January 15th!

NEW Add-ons for Band-in-a-Box® 2020 - and we've extended our Xtra Styles PAK and MultiStyles PAK Special until January 15th!

Xtra Styles PAK 10 with 50 styles each for Country, Jazz, Rock-Pop, and Folk Celebration! These carefully crafted RealStyles include lo-fi acoustic guitar hip hop, triple-guitar garage rock, a barbeque boom-chick jam, slidin' lazy country blues, bolero and bossa nova fusion, a Gypsy and stride ballad, praise break organ jazz fusion, surfin' folk rock, barn dance old-time stomp 'n' clap, an acoustic folky blues jam, and so much more!

Introducing MultiStyles PAK 1! 30 MultiStyles containing 120 styles - that's a total of 150 Styles! We've included 10 MultiStyles each for Country, Jazz, and Rock-Pop. Our jazz greats MultiStyle allows you to switch between piano and guitar comping, or select from two different solos. Our Jamaican groove selecta allows you to switch from ska at one section to reggae, island groove, or reggae with sax solo at another. A Tex-Mex country MultiStyle allows you to switch between a regular-time and double-time feel. And that's just the beginning. There's so much more in store! Once you dive into these professionally-mixed MultiStyles, you'll wonder how you ever made due with only two substyles per song! Use one substyle for a softer intro, another one for a restrained breakdown, then throw in a different and energetic middle-eight, or change it up with a solo. The possibilities are endless!

And they're ON SALE until January 15th!

Xtra Styles PAK 10, and ALL our Xtra Styles PAKs, are on sale for $29 (reg. $49) each! Haven't purchased Xtra Styles yet, but now you want them all? The COMPLETE collection of Xtra Styles PAKs 1-10 with over 1,600 RealStyles can be yours for only $199 (reg. $349)! There's also an option to purchase the newest Xtra Styles PAKs 9 & 10 for Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for a bundle price of $49, if you missed out on our previous special! www.pgmusic.com/xtrastyles.php?os=mac

Purchase MultiStyles PAK 1 for only $19 (reg. $29)!

Windows user? Click here for your OS specific product announcement.

Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows Today!

We've updated our Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Windows version to address a few user-reported program issues and requests. Band-in-a-Box® 2021 users can update for free here.

Have you been using your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows purchase and not applied any patch updates yet? Make sure you download the latest free patch update to access some great Bonus "Half-time" and "Double-time" RealStyles!

Total of new styles is:
-111 new RealStyles
-80 new RealTracks variations.
-27 new RealDrums variations.

This includes:
-variations of existing 16th-based bluegrass.
-variations of existing celtic and train beat styles.
-new styles with both 8th-based and 16th variations.
-16th-based samba variations.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows - Special Extended to January 15th!

SALE EXTENDED TO JANUARY 15TH!
Save up to 50% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows Upgrade during our special!

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows is here, with over 50 new features, 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, Artist Performances, Bonus RealDrums "Singles," RealDrums transcriptions, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 10, and more!

We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2021 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks and the just-released MultiStyles PAK 1) upgrade it to the 2021 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!

Learn more about all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows.

Forum Stats
33739 Members
67 Forums
67750 Topics
580012 Posts

Max Online: 2537 @ 01/19/20 07:09 AM
Newest Members
Robert444, gschuh, piezke, terencehort, Fisherman65

33739 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
VideoTrack 284
Matt Finley 192
Jim Fogle 139
MarioD 136
Pipeline 136
MusicStudent 127
Al-David 122
Bob Calver 117
Janice & Bud 115
CaptainMoto 114
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays