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#624305 - 11/21/20 05:30 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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New BIAB user, first post, please have mercy if my questions are laughable.
After entering a few songs from the Real Book to practice with I began to wonder about key changes. Does BIAB AI recognize these changes on its own and act accordingly or must I alert the program to them? And is this possible?
If so please let me know. You don't have to define the procedure if its doable. Just let me know that it is and I'll figure it out.
Thanks!!!
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#624324 - 11/21/20 06:56 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
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Welcome to the forum.
Yes, you can (and should) set the initial key signature on the main chord sheet, and yes, using F5, you can change it at any measure.
I’m not entirely sure how the program’s AI uses this but I do know it makes a major difference in notation. When you enter notation, the key signature determines the enharmonic spelling of a note (for example, is it G# or Ab). Some folks never change the key signature from the default key of C and the program plays a song with any chords. Whether or not it plays it ‘better’ using the right key signature, I really don’t know. I just write it correctly anyway.
Does that help?
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.
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#624346 - 11/22/20 04:10 AM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12146
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12146
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Welcome also.
Yes, good advice above.
Select the bar that you wish to change the key signature, press function key <F5> and you are presented with a list of options that you can adjust from that point forward for the song.
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BIAB & RB2021(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#624410 - 11/22/20 03:21 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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Thanks guys for the welcome and the advice. That F5 key tip is appreciated. I always make sure I set the proper initial key for the chord sheet. The thing I'm getting at is that though jazz lead sheets give you the key that the song starts in, they don't show the key changes that often occur within the tune. With analysis of the chords a musician can figure out where these key changes happen and use the F5 function to insert the changes. It's a chore but it can be done. What I'm really asking is whether BIAB is doing this chore on its own when you press Generate. Sorry if the question makes no sense 
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#624412 - 11/22/20 03:29 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 7302
Loc: Wauconda, Il.
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Registered: 12/08/02
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I don't think it will make any diff at all in the way it will sound or play. But that is just my experience with it.
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#624422 - 11/22/20 04:52 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
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Registered: 07/12/00
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This is getting more interesting.
First, it is normal that a jazz song does not use frequent key changes. It’s expected that there may be frequent modulations. The bridge key may change but not elsewhere.
Increasingly, I see more complicated compositions just written in C concert, with no attempt to reduce the accidentals by key signatures.
As my earlier reply indicated, I don’t know if it makes a difference for you to enter frequent key signatures in BIAB. The program does use AI but it’s proprietary how it works. We are pretty sure it has a ‘look ahead’ capability to see the possible key change just from the chord progression.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.
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#624474 - 11/23/20 09:18 AM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6808
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 6808
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
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Hello Scott1578, Welcome to the forum and to Band-in-a-Box or BiaB for short.
BiaB relies on the selected style for much of the arrangement feel of a song similar in manner to the way a musician will feel his or her way through a song the first time they are playing an unfamiliar song. Additionally BiaB uses artificial intelligence and a look ahead feature to better interpret the chord sheet. Last there has been some observational feedback from users that midi data in the Melody and/or Soloist tracks is read by the program and used to influence how the BiaB program interprets a chord chart.
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#624514 - 11/23/20 03:49 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Matt Finley]
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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Thanks for that Matt. I think there is some general confusion amongst musicians about what constitutes a true key change. Some think any modulation can be considered a change of key. But I think after reading your comment this isn't necessarily so. Ha ha, you've got me scouring the internet for knowledge on the subject. To date I can't find a dispute to your argument.
Also thanks for the reassurance that BIAB AI looks ahead and I don't have to worry if it will get things mostly right. It's a load off my mind to know that I can just enter my lead sheets and go with it.
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#624515 - 11/23/20 03:52 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: MusicStudent]
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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Thanks MusicStudent, I think you're right.
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#624528 - 11/23/20 04:22 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Jim Fogle]
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for the welcome and the reply. You pretty much echoed Matt's response to my questions. And I take that from yours's and Matt's considerable number of "tweets" that you both understand the program very well. So I trust in what you say. It puts me at ease.
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#624533 - 11/23/20 05:24 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Veteran
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
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Thanks for that Matt. I think there is some general confusion amongst musicians about what constitutes a true key change. Some think any modulation can be considered a change of key. But I think after reading your comment this isn't necessarily so. Ha ha, you've got me scouring the internet for knowledge on the subject. To date I can't find a dispute to your argument.
Also thanks for the reassurance that BIAB AI looks ahead and I don't have to worry if it will get things mostly right. It's a load off my mind to know that I can just enter my lead sheets and go with it. Don't give up so easily. I may not be correct about it making no difference in BIAB whether you set many key changes or not. This really merits further testing. As for those who would consider any modulation a change of key, I do understand. I think this stems from the way jazz theory is taught now, with an emphasis on scales and modes. "In my day" - the early 1960s - we learned it more organically.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.
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#624823 - 11/24/20 03:59 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Matt Finley]
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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Well if you've been playing since the 60's and you think BIAB is doing a decent job at interpreting the changes, that's good enough for me By the way I love the jazz that came out of the 60's and I agree it sounds very organic. As for needed further testing you may be right, but it's not gonna be done by me. I don't want to work. I just want to to bang on the drum all day 
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#624842 - 11/24/20 05:49 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Veteran
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
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Enjoy! I know I do. Every song I’ve written in the last 28 years has been composed using BIAB.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.
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#625137 - 11/25/20 03:51 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Matt Finley]
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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Thanks buddy. That testament is good enough for me! BIAB all the way.
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#625158 - 11/25/20 05:15 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Scott1578]
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Veteran
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21279
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
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I look forward to hearing what you come up with. As Peter Gannon (PG in PG Music) says, have fun.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.
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#625380 - 11/26/20 03:23 PM
[Beginners Forum]
Re: Key changes - hope this subject hasn't been beaten to death
[Re: Matt Finley]
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Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/21/20
Posts: 15
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 !!
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