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#627486 - 12/04/20 03:55 AM [RealBand] Is 2021 Worth the money.
Registered: 11/26/16
Posts: 377
jonel Offline
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Registered: 11/26/16
Posts: 377
PG Music are charging quite a hefty upgrade to just go from 2020 to 2021 with seemingly little to show that it is worth it. But RB going 64 bit just might.

Any opinions please?

Thanks

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#627497 - 12/04/20 05:43 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
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Loc: Pawling New York
Rob Helms Offline
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Actually it is the same upgrade as any year. As far as the value. I think so, based on several things I would pay $179 for a package of 202 new RTs (not including the RTs in 49 pak and Xtra Pak) and the new styles. The other things are 64 bit RB, and the new Chord drag feature. These are cool.
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#627577 - 12/04/20 10:43 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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There are several updates I think make upgrading worthwhile. Here are some that come to mind:

01) The audio editor can now be used on any track.
02) Hi-Q or high quality pitch and time stretching algorithm is available for RealTracks and RealDrums rendering.
03) 16, 24 and 32 bit audio is supported. The rendering default is now 24 bit.
04) Audio rendering is faster and more efficient.
05) Mute and solo mixer settings are song preferences instead of global preferences.
06) When rendering separate track audio files flat and center settings can be used for each track instead of the mixer settings.
07) A track setting enables BiaB to automatically fix "bad" notes in a RealTracks chord so the chord matches the chord sheet. A user can also use the audio editor to manually fix a chord in a audio file.
08) Either the default midi synth or a plugin midi synth can be selected on a per midi track basis.
09) Multiple plugin windows can be open at the same time.
10) You can now copy and move audio from track to track the same as you midi.

Especially when it comes to audio, there is much less reason to move to a DAW other than personal preference. Many things users previously used DAWs for can now be done in BiaB. Not only is there more audio functionality but rendered audio and audio playback will sound better.

My personal opinion is this release is one of the best and most important releases. Improving the audio engine opens to door to a lot of feature improvements and changes that were not previously possible.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (840) RB (Build 6) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#627616 - 12/04/20 12:49 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 56
saxgentleman67 Offline
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Half off seems like a good deal to me.

But I'm not sure about paying the same amount... $200 to get all the style paks ever made?

That's as much as I'm paying for the upgrade to Ultra-Pak plus.

How important are the style paks?

I am planning on using BIAB to record tracks to use as backing tracks for jazz saxophone for professional release.

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#628210 - 12/06/20 12:28 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: saxgentleman67]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: saxgentleman67
Half off seems like a good deal to me.

But I'm not sure about paying the same amount... $200 to get all the style paks ever made?

That's as much as I'm paying for the upgrade to Ultra-Pak plus.

How important are the style paks?

I am planning on using BIAB to record tracks to use as backing tracks for jazz saxophone for professional release.



That's a personal choice question.

If you normally find a style that matches a song then no, you likely don't need the style paks. After all, they are additional styles that use existing material.

If you can find a style that feels right for a song after you switch out some RealTracks I'd still say no you don't need the style paks.

However, if you find styles that, as soon as you hear them they inspire you, or lead you in a direction you hadn't planned then I'd say yes. The styles in the style paks are inspiring. They have a different sound and feel from the standard styles. This is not a put down of the standard styles but the reason style paks exist is to inspire and offer additional choices. Standard styles exist as a basic building block.
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Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (840) RB (Build 6) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#628298 - 12/06/20 07:03 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7971
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Pat Marr Offline
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If you already have BIAB 2020, just get the PlusPak for $99

It comes with the new version of BIAB and RB, plus ONLY the new real tracks and styles. Plus some bonus styles.



Some of the more expensive packages include ALL of the previous styles and realtracks... but if you already have them, why pay more to buy them again?


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#628347 - 12/07/20 02:21 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
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Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
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i bet the RT to midi is a program change not on the actual RealTrack itself. or the installer updates old RTs.

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#628369 - 12/07/20 06:13 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 12/06/11
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Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
MountainSide Offline
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Pat, that's a very interesting question! In order to get the midi tracks for previous RT's, does one have to buy the full 2021 version paks or does the PlusPak (with the 2021 BIAB) have the engine to add midi tracks to all previous RT that I might have?

Hopefully one of our beta testers or PG direct can clarify this.

Jeff
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#628389 - 12/07/20 06:50 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 10/25/08
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Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
i bet the RT to midi is a program change not on the actual RealTrack itself. or the installer updates old RTs.


You might be right Bob. My comprehension takes a few passes through the same information before I "get it"

;-)

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#629694 - 12/12/20 02:37 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 56
saxgentleman67 Offline
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Posts: 56
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
If you already have BIAB 2020, just get the PlusPak for $99

It comes with the new version of BIAB and RB, plus ONLY the new real tracks and styles. Plus some bonus styles.

Some of the more expensive packages include ALL of the previous styles and realtracks... but if you already have them, why pay more to buy them again?



I have 2016 Pro, so I was initially just going to go to 2021 BIAB Ultra Pak Plus....thinking that was enough. But then I saw the offer to get all the extra style paks.

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#629699 - 12/12/20 02:42 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 56
saxgentleman67 Offline
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Posts: 56
Very useful response Jim. I will probably eventually get them all...but I think maybe later is better than sooner. I really havn't used the program much at all yet. Probably better to see what's there first. I am hoping that the move from Pro to Ultra Pak Plus will give me greater freedom and flexibility.

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#629754 - 12/12/20 06:09 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Jim Fogle Offline
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saxgentleman67,

Updating from 2016 to 2021 is a B-I-G jump. I can't even think of all the program changes that have been made in five years.

The most basic purchase is the 2021 Program update. This only includes the programs, no add-ons. But there have been substantial changes to the program from 2016 to now.

One big update is the program has a new audio sound engine. Not only can you use 24 bit audio but you can also use different audio sample rates. Audio renders are much faster.

Another big update is the algorithm used to change audio pitch and tempo is new. RealTracks can be time or pitch shifted more than before with less artifacts.

Both Band-in-a-Box and RealBand are available as 64 bit programs. That makes them compatible with modern plugins.

PG Music offers a no payment now, four monthly payments plan that's worth looking at.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (840) RB (Build 6) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#631229 - 12/18/20 09:20 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 953
Simon - PG Music Online   content
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 953
I personally think 2021 is very much worth the money, as there are a ton of great new features (especially the Utility Tracks and higher quality time stretching)! Of course, I might be biased. Please see my signature...


Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
If you already have BIAB 2020, just get the PlusPak for $99

It comes with the new version of BIAB and RB, plus ONLY the new real tracks and styles. Plus some bonus styles.



Some of the more expensive packages include ALL of the previous styles and realtracks... but if you already have them, why pay more to buy them again?



I'd be careful recommending this, as the PlusPAK really only works when upgrading from the previous year's UltraPAK - it can get messy when a customer upgrades to the PlusPAK from Pro or MegaPAK, as all the previous Realtracks aren't there for the new styles to work with...


Edited by Simon - PG Music (12/18/20 09:20 PM)
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#631243 - 12/19/20 02:54 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 10/03/17
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Loc: Ohio
DSM Offline
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My favorite is the utility tracks!

...Deb

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#631829 - 12/22/20 07:19 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/08/06
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Rob Helms Offline
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I thought this was a RB question now i'm confused
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#631902 - 12/22/20 02:07 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
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rharv Offline
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Rob,
From RB patch release

New - program will now let you save audio tracks as Utility Tracks when saving to an MGU or SGU
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#631915 - 12/22/20 03:39 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/08/06
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Rob Helms Offline
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Very weird
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#631997 - 12/23/20 01:49 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
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Bob Calver Offline
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maybe someone can explain why after taking a BIAB song into RB with all the extra flexibility, extra tracks, all the regeneration possibilities - midi, midi supertracks and RTs, and easier editing without complicated workarounds RB offers , you might want to take it back into BIAB?

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#632015 - 12/23/20 05:38 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Bob Calver]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
maybe someone can explain why after taking a BIAB song into RB with all the extra flexibility, extra tracks, all the regeneration possibilities - midi, midi supertracks and RTs, and easier editing without complicated workarounds RB offers , you might want to take it back into BIAB?


One opens a BIAB project in RB that was carefully constructed using Multi Styles extensively only to learn RB doesn't recognize Multi Styles...

One opens a BIAB project in RB that was carefully constructed with frozen tracks perfect for the project only to learn RB doesn't recognize and preserve frozen tracks. Back to BIAB to export....

BIAB's more fully featured than RB. It is much better to construct tracks and styles in BIAB than RB if you're into a project and find tracks lacking as the project progresses.

BIAB's StylePicker is better and more efficient than the StylePicker in RB.

BIAB's ACW is better and more efficient than RB's.

Projects evolve and BIAB does many things better at track construction than RB or any other DAW. I don't think it's at all unusual to get tracks into RB only to find they are not completely satisfactory for the project and BIAB is the right tool for that job.
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#632031 - 12/23/20 06:32 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
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Rob Helms Offline
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Charlie, I have a question regarding frozen tracks, are not all tracks in RB actually “Frozen” since they don’t regenerate unless you specifically want to?
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#632067 - 12/23/20 10:00 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
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MarioD Offline
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Of course it is worth the money. It is free when you purchase BiaB!
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

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#632090 - 12/23/20 12:03 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Rob Helms]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
Charlie, I have a question regarding frozen tracks, are not all tracks in RB actually “Frozen” since they don’t regenerate unless you specifically want to?

That's correct but that's not the frozen tracks of BIAB.

When a BIAB file is saved with frozen tracks and subsequently opened in RB, RB doesn't import the BIAB frozen tracks but generates a new version of that instrument. Obviously those frozen BIAB tracks can be saved and imported but unless one knows to do that, they get a new variation of the BIAB song project rather than an exact copy.

So to answer Bob's question why someone would return back to BIAB after moving their project to RB for further processing, not knowing that RB doesn't work with BIAB Multi Styles or BIAB frozen tracks would prompt at trip back to BIAB to correct those situations.
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#632103 - 12/23/20 01:11 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
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Bob Calver Offline
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thanks Charlie - i understand - i think. most of the stuff i record is simple so multistyles don't really come into the picture. every time i've changed styles in BIAB at a particular bar during the song, the change has carried over to RB and that has been the sum total of my need for changes in BIAB.

and if i don't like part of a RealTrack i just regenerate that bit in RB. i never bother to freeze BIAB tracks because once i'm in RB i can do anything i like by regenerating and then saving as a seq file. or even gfenerate an alternative track and cut and paste whole sections. i know also that fx settings are not supposed to travel across to RB from BIAB but i edit them with the mixer in RB.

i used to use PowerTracks in the days of midi only and just made a midi file from BIAB that i opened in PT. no problems of regeneration there. but i still stick to the work flow i'm used to.

i realize i'm not exploiting the full capability of BIAB but the new RealTracks are my main reason for upgrading not the extra capabilities like utility tracks.

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#632110 - 12/23/20 01:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
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Bob Calver Offline
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just a query charlie - once you've gone back to BIAB to 'get it right' where do you go from there? surely not back to RB? won't the same problem arise?

or is it that people go to RB, realize they shouldn't have done, go back to BIAB with the extra tracks they've generated in RB (which you can only do now with the new utility tracks when you save your RB file as an sgu or mgu but presumably you can do that now without leaving BIAB anyway) and then to a DAW like Reaper?

RB seems a redundant step in the situation you describe. and if you've opened an mgu or sgu in RB to find it doesn't work the way you want why not go back to the original BIAB file you opened in RB?

i can't see anyone making the same 'mistake' of going to RB twice so an 'escape route' of saving to utility tracks seems unnecessary. in the situations you describe the obvious workflow is BIAB to DAW and maybe then use the BIAB plugin. or am i missing something else?.

merry christmas everybody!


Edited by Bob Calver (12/23/20 01:41 PM)

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#632116 - 12/23/20 02:46 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
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rharv Offline
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Bob,
I think the difference is you and I move to RB before trying to get any 'final tracks' in BiaB.
Not everybody works like that.

I use BiaB to get the chords, possible style and song structure.
Then open in RB (like you) and get my final tracks there, where we have more control.

I have never tried to finish a song in Biab, and doubt I could at my current skill level with it.

That said, moving to RB and opening a nearly finished SGU file and seeing it regenerate it all would happen one time here.
Knowing to export it after that, or drag/drop, would be learned real quick-like.
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#632120 - 12/23/20 02:59 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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<< just a query charlie - once you've gone back to BIAB to 'get it right' where do you go from there? surely not back to RB? won't the same problem arise? >>

Actually moving projects is quick from BIAB to RB, so that's what you would do. Once you've opened a project in RB and found your frozen BIAB tracks did not transfer over, from that point on you normally compensate and export saved tracks to import into RB thereafter. The first time is a real letdown though but it's an easy task to return to BIAB and export the frozen tracks.

RealBand is not meant to replace BIAB nor is BIAB meant to replace RealBand. They both have their unique features and together although they are two different programs, they are one powerful tool. That being said, I'm of the opinion that some users aren't totally familiar with BIAB features that allow tracks to be more unique, complex, fuller and dynamic before they are moved over to a DAW and many things they are doing manually in their DAW, BIAB can do quickly, professionally and automatically saving them a lot of time and editing.

Going back to BIAB to correct issues or change a track to match within a project that's moved over to RB or another DAW is likely not that unusual. In my case, many times i've left a project for a few days and when I get back to it, the song doesn't sound nearly as full or exciting as I perceived it when I stopped work on it. Fresh ears do wonders showing warts that have been overlooked. wink
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#632122 - 12/23/20 03:02 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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<< That said, moving to RB and opening a nearly finished SGU file and seeing it regenerate it all would happen one time here.
Knowing to export it after that, or drag/drop, would be learned real quick-like. >>

Lol, there you go.
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#632154 - 12/23/20 06:27 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Bob Calver]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
maybe someone can explain why after taking a BIAB song into RB with all the extra flexibility, extra tracks, all the regeneration possibilities - midi, midi supertracks and RTs, and easier editing without complicated workarounds RB offers , you might want to take it back into BIAB?
To share with a Band-in-a-Box for Mac user perhaps?
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (840) RB (Build 6) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#632185 - 12/24/20 12:39 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
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Bob Calver Offline
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no one size fits all! glad to hear BIAB and RB are working for everyone regardless of your workflow patterns.

my musical horizons are set by years of playing live with small folk groups or electric bands and to a large extent that's what i get with BIAB and RB with the opportunity to get the band members to play their part again if i don't like it.

as rharv says if you're used to finishing in RB - and those of us brought up on PowerTracks probably are - we know our way round that program much better than we do BIAB.

i'm looking forward to upgrading but will probably leave it to the last minute as patches are still coming through

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#632241 - 12/24/20 08:17 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 12/19/20
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grandad_paul Offline
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One thing I noticed with RealBand 64-bit 2021, is that the audio effects (compressor, distortion etc.) still only work for 16-bit tracks.

That's a bit disappointing when BIAB is now 24-bits internally, as we have to sample and edit at 16-bits in RealBand 2021.1


Hopefully, a future update can fix that. To be fair, as a retired developer myself, its a bit awkward to have duplicate effects for 16/24; some users will want to use 16 and some 24. Perhaps they decided to leave that thorny issue until after the Xmas rush.

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#632247 - 12/24/20 09:28 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
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Bob Calver Offline
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which audio effects are you referring to? 32 bit plugins won't work with a 64 bit host unless you use jbridge. i'm not sure what effects you mean - i thought the pgmusic built in fx had been upgraded to 64 bit.

maybe someone cleverer than me can say whether the bit depth of the audio affects the plugins that work. i thought it was the 32 or 64 bit nature of the host application.

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#632282 - 12/24/20 12:27 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: grandad_paul]
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MarioD Offline
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Can't you use third party VST plugins?
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

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#632337 - 12/24/20 05:01 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 12/19/20
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
grandad_paul Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/19/20
Posts: 3
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
which audio effects are you referring to?


Bob,
I'm referring to the built in effects in RealBand, under the Edit | Audio Effects menu:

Compressor
Gate
.......
.......
Hum Filter

With a 24-bit track the Audio Effects pop up a message saying they only work for 16-bit tracks.

I might be doing something wrong, but the only solution I could find was switching back to 16-bit tracks.

Having sampled an acoustic guitar or vocal at 24-bit, a bit of compression will help....then you hit your head on the 16-bit wall!

-Paul

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#632369 - 12/25/20 05:04 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1323
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1323
Loc: UK
if you press the fx button on the track can you use the plugins that come up? are you using the edit menu and choosing audio effects?

i would have thought the plugins that come up with the fx button should work. please try it and if they don't it's a bug that needs fixing

3rd party plugins should still work.

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#632464 - 12/25/20 07:04 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
saxgentleman67,

Assuming money is pretty tight, I would select the program update package for $49 US. That gets you the latest 32 and 64 bit Band-in-a-Box and RealBand programs, all the 32 and 64 bit varieties of the DAW plug-in and updates until the next (2022?) product release. I would also order a hard copy Band-in-a-Box user manual (about $15 US).

This will allow you to concentrate on learning all the program changes made since 2016, take advantage of the pitch, timing and harmony advances while using your existing content. Even without the additional content you will be busy learning for a long time.

As you learn to use what you purchased in 2021, save a little each month so you can purchase the UltraPAK next release at the 2021 to next release upgrade price.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (840) RB (Build 6) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#632592 - 12/26/20 12:43 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 215
Loc: Lowell, MA
Funkifized Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 215
Loc: Lowell, MA
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
If you already have BIAB 2020, just get the PlusPak for $99

It comes with the new version of BIAB and RB, plus ONLY the new real tracks and styles. Plus some bonus styles.



Some of the more expensive packages include ALL of the previous styles and realtracks... but if you already have them, why pay more to buy them again?



I agree that I don't want to pay for all the RealTracks that I have already. However, I'm on BIAB 2019. Would I still be looking at the PlusPak?
_________________________
Band-In-A-Box for Windows
Version 2021 (833)
64 bit application
RealBand 2021 (3)
Windows 10 Pro
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.70GHz
16.0 GB (15.4 GB usable)

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#632642 - 12/26/20 06:23 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: Funkifized
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
If you already have BIAB 2020, just get the PlusPak for $99

It comes with the new version of BIAB and RB, plus ONLY the new real tracks and styles. Plus some bonus styles.



Some of the more expensive packages include ALL of the previous styles and realtracks... but if you already have them, why pay more to buy them again?



I agree that I don't want to pay for all the RealTracks that I have already. However, I'm on BIAB 2019. Would I still be looking at the PlusPak?
No. The PlusPAK only adds 2021 content. You have 2019 so if you purchased the PlusPAK you would be lacking content added in 2020.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (840) RB (Build 6) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#632654 - 12/26/20 07:34 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 215
Loc: Lowell, MA
Funkifized Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 215
Loc: Lowell, MA
So, that clearly begs the question: what's the workflow that one should use to avoid going back and forth between BIAB and RB? How does one make up for the fact that RB doesn't do anything with Multistyles and won't import frozen tracks?
_________________________
Band-In-A-Box for Windows
Version 2021 (833)
64 bit application
RealBand 2021 (3)
Windows 10 Pro
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.70GHz
16.0 GB (15.4 GB usable)

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#633161 - 12/29/20 10:00 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Band-in-a-Box and RealBand are companion products, they each are capable of things the other is not. The easiest way to account for those differences is to do what you can first in Band-in-a-Box, render the tracks to waves, then move both the SGU file and rendered waves to RealBand.

Maybe I'm wrong but I've always believed the main benefit of importing a SGU file to RealBand is you have access to the chord sheet to (1) see where your at in the song and (2) in case you want to generate additional tracks.

It looks like the second reason may not apply with multistyles.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (840) RB (Build 6) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#633202 - 12/29/20 01:38 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1323
Loc: UK
Bob Calver Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 1323
Loc: UK
just thinking out loud but what happens if...........

you freeze tracks in BIAB
open the file in RB - tempo and bars should match
delete all the regenerated tracks (which would leave the chord sheet and part markers i think!)
re-open BIAB and select DAW mode and drag and drop the frozen tracks (and multi style changes) into the RB song...........

would that work? you'd still have to add reverb etc to the tracks in RB but would that be a simple workaround?

can't see any need to go back to BIAB if it works

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#635426 - 01/09/21 04:31 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 03/01/18
Posts: 53
BIABman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/01/18
Posts: 53
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
There are several updates I think make upgrading worthwhile. Here are some that come to mind:

10) You can now copy and move audio from track to track the same as you midi.


This one seems pretty basic. Only achieved now with 2021?


Quote:
Especially when it comes to audio, there is much less reason to move to a DAW other than personal preference. Many things users previously used DAWs for can now be done in BiaB. Not only is there more audio functionality but rendered audio and audio playback will sound better.


Do you feel RealBand is now on par with or better than Reaper?

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#635726 - 01/11/21 08:03 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7477
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Compare RealBand to Reaper? Why? How? They perform different jobs.

RealBand compliments Band-in-a-Box. RealBand offers features Band-in-a-Box doesn't have while Band-in-a-Box has features RealBand doesn't have. Both RealBand and Band-in-a-Box work with PG Music content like RealTracks and SuperMidi.

Reaper includes programming by script which allows users to mold the DAW to fit particular case uses and extend it's features.

I don't see how it's fair to either product to compare them. And, the question veers off topic.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (840) RB (Build 6) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#635816 - 01/11/21 02:54 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Funkifized]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6400
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6400
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Funkifized
So, that clearly begs the question: what's the workflow that one should use to avoid going back and forth between BIAB and RB?


In my opinion, for accompaniment users, there's little if any benefit to move a project to RB. A very complex arrangement consisting of dozens of instruments mixed, panned and audio leveled can be programmed and rendered taking little time to complete. Constructing a song in BIAB by programming the arrangement similar to how one contructs the song form and chord progression into the Chord Chart yields a professional quality render that the BIAB algorithm has anticipated instrument changes such as solo intro's and endings, instrument mutes and return to normal status, the same as the Chord Chart anticipates and reacts to shots, holds, rests, drum fills, Part Markers and chord changes. The result is that BIAB selects part appropriate audio or midi and provides smooth transitions, avoids abrupt beginnings and cut off's and also many other automated actions and create nice, complex arrangements that normally don't require any post editing.

The same is true of composing except users have developed a workflow that prompts them into thinking they have to have a high degree of individual instrument manual control.



Originally Posted By: Funkifized
How does one make up for the fact that RB doesn't do anything with Multistyles and won't import frozen tracks?


Complete those actions in BIAB and export the audio out to RB.



Edited by Charlie Fogle (01/11/21 03:27 PM)
_________________________
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2021:RB 2021, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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#636169 - 01/13/21 05:09 AM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6400
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6400
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Bob Calver
just thinking out loud but what happens if...........

you freeze tracks in BIAB
open the file in RB - tempo and bars should match
delete all the regenerated tracks (which would leave the chord sheet and part markers i think!)
re-open BIAB and select DAW mode and drag and drop the frozen tracks (and multi style changes) into the RB song...........

would that work? you'd still have to add reverb etc to the tracks in RB but would that be a simple workaround?

can't see any need to go back to BIAB if it works


Bob, there's a better method that requires less importing/exporting back and forth between you may want to try.
There are steps to create a BIAB song and open the saved file in RB with the individual frozen tracks saved with or without Fx applied to the tracks.
The process freezes the track, names the track and saves the track to the song file folder. In versions of BIAB prior to 2021, the Mixer tracks display both the blue snowflake symbol and also the changes the track color to orange. It's possible to confirm the saved track is identical to the current BIAB Mixer track. The saved tracks can be imported into any DAW that can use WAV or WMA audio files.

There are additional benefits to opening the BIAB song file in RB. In versions prior to 2021:
The saved files are named to match the Legacy BIAB Mixer Channels. (Bass, Piano, Drums, Guitar, Strings, Melody, Soloist and Audio)
In RB, the first 8 BIAB can be converted to regular tracks and the frozen saved files can be imported to the matching RB first 8 BIAB tracks at the top of the tracks sheet.
In RB, the chords and part markers are imported correctly.
In RB, the underlying midi tracks are imported.

Opening a BIAB project in RB that's been prepared and saved in the BIAB project before opening it in RB provides the following in order:

The first 8 tracks will have the frozen and saved BIAB project tracks and they will be loaded in the BIAB Legacy Name order. (B,P,D,G,S,M,S,A)
The tracks starting at track 9 will have the new generated instruments from the BIAB project followed by
The underlying MIDI instrument tracks.


This isn't a workaround but a BIAB feature that's been available for recording audio since at least 2014 when I became aware of it. It works with both Windows and Mac systems.

Best of all. It literally is no harder to implement than freezing tracks. All of the freezing, naming, saving and track marking (snowflake and color change) are automated by BIAB.

Individual tracks can be selected from a single track to all of the BIAB Mixer tracks. In 2021, Utility Tracks can also be selected with a bit of effort.
This process works with MIDI, RealTracks or Audio.
This process allows the creation of Stems and sub-mixes from within BIAB with no requirement of a DAW.

___________

To use this process:

Once a track is ready to be frozen and ready for export, rather than freeze the track in the normal manner,

Right click on the track: Track Actions| Save as Performance File (WAV,WMA)

That's it for BIAB. BIAB automates all of the rest of the actions! I've added a Screenshot of the BIAB project save folder. Note the files are saved in the BIAB Legacy Name format and in their listed order.

In RB, converting the BB tracks to regular tracks and importing the frozen saved tracks are the only additional actions that are necessary for the initial project setup to be as I described above.








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Edited by Charlie Fogle (01/13/21 05:26 AM)
_________________________
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2021:RB 2021, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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#636259 - 01/13/21 02:52 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 20597
Loc: Mi., USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 20597
Loc: Mi., USA
You save your RB SEQ files in the same folder?
Your image shows a SEQ file created a half hour later than the others .. just curious how it got there

Also, what's a 'terst'? (ducks and runs)

./\../\../\../\... made it this far, I don't think he can reach me now
_________________________
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here

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#636277 - 01/13/21 05:33 PM [RealBand] Re: Is 2021 Worth the money. [Re: jonel]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6400
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6400
Loc: South Carolina
Terst is a level 2 test that is erased once a folder is dropped into a thread to demonstrate an action.

All of the files in the folder were created in BIAB and can be imported into RB or any other DAW that can accept WAV or WMA files...
The files in this folder were imported into RB after I opened the BIAB file in RB.

I saved the RB SEQ file into my Terst folder to make erasure a single click process.



Edited by Charlie Fogle (01/14/21 02:41 AM)
_________________________
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2021:RB 2021, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Today!

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Both of these free updates for your 2021 version include the latest DAW Plugin 3.7.23 too!

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Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac: New Features and 202 RealTracks Videos
Band-in-a-Box® 2021 - RealCharts for all RealDrums!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2021, we added over 300 additional RealCharts (with accurate Drum Notation and MIDI to trigger drum sounds) for RealDrums.

That's right... this means that now ALL the RealDrums have RealCharts!

With RealCharts, you can use the notation for MIDI drum parts too - great for copying to a Utility Track!
(Watch this video for a full demonstration of Utility Tracks.)

Learn more about RealCharts for RealDrums with drum notation.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Feature: Utility Tracks

Have you ever wanted to use more than 5 tracks when creating your Band-in-a-Box® song? Great news.... with the new Utility Tracks added in Band-in-a-Box® 2021, there are 16 more tracks!

These can be used for audio and/or MIDI! Generate RealTracks to the Utility Tracks where you can listen to AND edit them and view the RealCharts as MIDI. You can also record to these tracks (MIDI or audio), and import your audio for further editing or to harmonize it.

We explain all the great ways to use the Utility Tracks in this video.

Read more about this feature: Windows | Mac.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac Review – Users' Dreams Come True

Read all about what "Dr. Dave" Walker thinks of his latest copy of Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac with his review, Band-in-a-Box for Mac 2021 – Users' Dreams Come True.

"2021 is a big leap forward to the best Band-in-a-Box for Mac yet! If you have been putting off upgrading, or even if not, NOW is the time to upgrade! And if you haven't got it yet, you owe it to yourself to get Band-in-a-Box 2021.

Maybe the most important point from all the talk about this version is that PG Music is listening to you, their customers. So if you have a feature that you really want in the program, write to them or chat from their web site. Let them know and yours just might be the next feature added."
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Thanks again Dr. Dave for your enthusiastic feedback, we're thrilled that you love what we've done with Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac!

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