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#619721 - 10/20/20 08:39 AM [RealBand Wishlist] WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST APP TO HELP PG USERS BUY COMPUTERS.
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 396
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 396
WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST UTILITY FROM PG.

this wish , came about for several reasons.
1. buying a new computer to run recording studio software is often fraught with pitfalls and a "hope and pray" scenario for a lot of people.
2. many recording forums have thread after thread of problems whereby often a user new to daw's/recording has bought an underpowered computer that actually wont meet the users day to day needs.
3. personal experience trying to help people over the years.

just the other week i was helping yet another friend agonising over the computer buying decision.

so i'm suggesting a SIMPLE STANDALONE TEST APP from PG with a small executable.

(the idea is an expansion of the pg action>>test audio performance feature in realband.
i would be happy to pay a little bit extra for BIAB/RB to have this.)

here are the basic specs.
(imagine a user takes the small app on an sd card or usb drive to a local friendly computer
store.)
1. boots up computer looking to buy.
2. runs from sdcard or usb drive the APP.
3. the app runs very fast.
4. the app issues a detailed on screen report. eg.
such things as max possible track counts, input max in conjunction with playback counts at various sampling rates,
and possible plug in counts max, assuming low cpu useage plug ins.
eg a report might look like this .
"this computer at 44.1 khz will allow recording 8 simultaneous input channels while playing back 24 tracks with xx number of plug ins each."that type of idea. ie.
it might include a table showing anticipated performance at various sampling rates.

lets look at the benefits.
1. helps the users computer buying decision.
2. might cut down on the no of calls to pg support.
3. it might help a user in the audio interface buying decision.
for example "oh wow, i can record xx tracks at a time with this computer " type of idea.
"so maybe i should buy that other multi input interface". etc etc.

would other pg users find this usefull ??
possibly this might cut down the number of interractions with pg support where a user is wondering why there are problems on a low power rig that cant handle the load etc etc.

yes i'm aware that some stores dont like in store testing.
so i just walk away, and only deal with those stores that WILL let me test.
its amazeing if you think about it that a car dealer will allow a test run, but some computer dealers wont.
(new user note, at a computer shop, just time how long the computer takes to boot up from cold. NOT from sleep mode, but from turning on the power. also note how fast different apps boot up and fluidity etc etc.if apps take awhile to boot up , this is often a clue of problems maybe,you want snappy response.)

of course at the dealers i wouldnt expect to load in plug ins and RB etc etc.

as we move into the future and people upgrade their rigs this type of test utility could be rather usefull as pg add more features to biab/RB/powertracks etc.
(of course we all know that recording lots of inputs concurrently on a slow machine can lead to problems while also running lots of plug ins/traks playing back in real time. at high sampling rates.).

to any "naysayers " i say its kinda a "trial and error" approach currently in buying a computer dont you think ??
do you have a better idea to protect the buyers of new computers ??
ie particularly for a new user , who visits a store, and buys some machine that might or might not meet their needs or have the power "oomph" for now and the next few years.
not all of us are wealthy enough to buy a new computer often.

its just a basic spec , but i'm sure you get the idea, and i feel would help a pg user immensely in shopping for a new computer to run biab/rb/powertraks etc etc and their other
daw softwares etc.

for example maybe biab/rb will run happily on a persons current computer, but what about if/when (per the wishlist) biab itself is expanded to run many more realtraks channels ?
eg 16 like some users want, myself included ??

TECH SOS FORUM benchmark thread elucidates more on this idea once the buyer has the computer home and BIAB/RB are installed or just running from the biab external usb drive.
for example a "what if concept" could be introduced. sort of AI idea.
eg one has a song , and the user enquires to the benchmark utility BEFORE starting the song "what if i record 16 tracks at a time and playback 24 at a sampling rate of 88.2"
"is that possible ?? " then RB reports back.
get the idea ??
of course sandboxing problem plug ins could be another feature etc, as well as various stats mentioned in the benchmark thread. cpu useage etc etc.

all comments appreciated.

respectfully.
muso.
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#623541 - 11/17/20 08:15 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST APP TO HELP PG USERS BUY COMPUTERS. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2104
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
sslechta Offline
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Registered: 12/27/13
Posts: 2104
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
+1
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#625992 - 11/28/20 01:28 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST APP TO HELP PG USERS BUY COMPUTERS. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 5571
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 5571
Loc: Akron, Oh
I don't understand what that limited amount of testing would accomplish. Are you going to stand there and download VST instruments so the store computer has everything you do at home? That's when the buggy stuff starts showing up, when you introduce outside software, do a lot of key transposition, tempo changing, etc... You'd need to tie that computer up for hours testing it trying to break it. Unless you are in a really small town with a shop that is a computer version of a mom and pop grocery store, I can't imagine they would allow that.

So because I don't know where you live, all I can say is that there isn't a store within 250 miles that would allow someone to bring software in from outside and load it on a computer. Not because they are nasty and hate customers, but once you do that, use it, load and delete a bunch of software, that computer legally has to be sold as used. Not to mention the risk of introducing a virus or malware that then spreads to any computer on their network.

But, as usual... whatever. I can just say that if it was my store I wouldn't allow it. Just invest in your music and buy the battleship. Intel i9 or i10, 64gb of RAM, beefy video card, SSD for the OS drive, at least one 2TB storage drive... A Volkswagon is never going to outrun a Porsche 911.


Edited by eddie1261 (11/28/20 01:30 PM)
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#626755 - 12/01/20 04:04 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST APP TO HELP PG USERS BUY COMPUTERS. [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 396
justanoldmuso Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 396
eddie.
so just let "titanic" hit the iceberg ? no early warning system ?

what i'm suggesting is no different eddie than computerised early warning systems in various industrial sectors. eg nuclear power apps, manufacturing, defence etc etc.
its done all the time. so why not for music apps ?

just peruse any recording forum and youll see the problems. repeatedly.
this is why some music apps are starting to build in security features to protect users.
like sandboxing problem plug ins. reporting certain performance stats etc.
for example reaper daw that i use has features reporting , amongst other things, cpu use of a particular plug in.
various daws are starting to incorporate "safety features", because it cuts down on interactions with support teams etc etc.

(no i'm not suggesting at the store one dl's lots of plug ins. or a complex situation. just a very very simple app that detects potential problems with a computer run off a usb stick. )

best.
muso.
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#626803 - 12/01/20 10:35 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST APP TO HELP PG USERS BUY COMPUTERS. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 5571
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 5571
Loc: Akron, Oh
Muso, apparently you have not worked in IT. A scaled down version on a USB stick is not real world testing, but I also don't think I am ever going to be able to explain why. You don't learn to hit a 95 mile fast ball by hitting a 60 mile fast ball. Because I have a feeling that even if they did this, and your in-store tests were fine, the second you come home, do far more than a demo in store (and again, I don't know if you live in a town of 850 people where everybody knows everybody and nobody locks their doors where something like a test of an extremely niche, non-standard software programs like this would even be allowed) and see a crash, you'd be right back here complaining about the software.

I am done with this. You just don't get it and I don't have the energy to keep posting why.
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#627506 - 12/04/20 06:22 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST APP TO HELP PG USERS BUY COMPUTERS. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5884
Loc: Pawling New York
Rob Helms Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5884
Loc: Pawling New York
Muso, I think your idea has some merit, you could at least see if a system has the basic minimum needs. However Eddie is right in a real world sense. You won’t know until you try to load audio.

The biggest problem, and one I have wrestled with, it since this is a hoppy and not a vocation I always seem to buy on the lower end of things. If you by a faster computer, with a decent amount of ram and a better hard drive it should work.

I have a old tired laptop with 8 gig or ram and a 1 TB drive it does alright till I really load it down. If I add 16 gigs of ram and clone to a SSD drive it would be golden.

Lastly it sometimes is not the computer but the configuration of the said system, and many times to free third party plugins, and cheap sound cards that cause audio to fail.
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#627566 - 12/04/20 10:06 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST APP TO HELP PG USERS BUY COMPUTERS. [Re: Rob Helms]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 396
justanoldmuso Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 396
Rob Helms.
(merry xmas to you, eddie, and all pg users and staff.)

please allow me to clarify. cos maybe i didnt make myself clear possibly.
my initial post in this thread must be read in conjunction with my post in the pg tech sos forum, in the daw benchmark thread i posted that included security feature ideas.
so i will put everything together again in this new post.

ive had many discussions with fellow musicians other than myself over the years about software to assist them re identifying potential daw problems. many of them supported these ideas. let me explain please.
THE IDEAS have 3 phases.
1. PHASE 1. in store pre-sales , a "simple" test. in case the computer has some problem or other.
2. PHASE 2. on boot up first time of biab or realband , a report as to possible max performance possibilities. eg max traks/max plug in instances/ max inputs at various sample rates.
and identify potential sound device problems etc etc. basically an expansion of the RB action/test audio performance metric/ idea.
3. PHASE 3. in day to day use. an early warning system BEFORE a system becomes overloaded and crashes.
as well as sandboxing certain problem plug ins. plus when a user loads a brand new plug in, possibly warning if a potential problem might arise with it . etc etc.
(as i said before eg reaper, and other daws have started incorporating various reporting/security features.)

rob, let me explain further please.
and youll see the background to my thinking.

in a previous life (lol) , i worked in industry with teams of techs on "big iron" computer acquisitions.
sometimes that would cost an organisation many millions.
the acquisition normally proceeded in several phases.
1. sending out our requirements to tech vendors.
2. analysis of vendor submissions.
3. selection of a shortlist.
4. in depth hands on testing of each vendors technology that made the shortlist.
5. selection of a successfull vendor.
6. installation of chosen vendors tech.
7. rigorous monitoring of chosen vendors tech, once installed. ie performance audits etc etc.
i wont bore you with all the rest. suffice it to say, it was a rigorous controlled process.

now obviously i'm not suggesting the above in this situation.
just some features to try and protect people new to this crazy song creation world. lol.

all i'm suggesting is a teeny small microcosm of standard tech acquisition procedures that occur in various industries every day.
i also predict you will see more safety features built into apps and OS's. as time goes on, cos people are demanding fewer tech problems/optimum up times.

frankly i'm not going to bother posting any more in the wishlist forums. as it doesnt seem people are too interested in supporting the wishes ive posted. which has surprised me.

as there is no more i can say, i will not comment further.

once again. merry xmas.
best.
muso.



Edited by justanoldmuso (12/04/20 10:13 AM)
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#627772 - 12/04/20 07:11 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: WISH FOR A PG COMPUTER TEST APP TO HELP PG USERS BUY COMPUTERS. [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 5571
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 5571
Loc: Akron, Oh
I went to the Toyota dealer near me and asked to see if they'd let me take a Prius home. I want to hook my trailer to it and see if I could tow the trailer well. Of course to do that I would have to get a hitch and a trailer lighting harness installed first. I also need to see if it will handle the trails I like to go off-roading on with my Jeep Renegade. After that I will see if the leather back seat is big enough to handle my big black dog. Because I need to make sure it will work for my specific needs before I buy it, right?

Oddly, they said no.

Tell me how this is different.
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