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I would add that the ASIO driver be multi-client.

Jeff


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jeff.
excellent point . kudos to you.
kicking myself for forgetting the need for multi client.
amending specs in the post after posting this.
maybe after lots of pg users have critiqued specs , i'll email the specs/group think to manufacturers.

best.
muso.


New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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Justanoldmuso: What you're asking for requires a lot of engineering for the hardware and the drivers, and in the sub-200 buck range what you'll be getting is probably not even a Behringer-level device. Low latency requires ongoing development, as Windows and Mac OS often change things (as we all know well). High gain low noise requires parts that will bump the price up a lot, and great A/D/A requires expensive converter chips and good supporting hardware. I don't think it'll happen.


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Simon.
you make very good points, and i always value highly your input on studio tech.
i had similar feelings until recently , when i came across a series of you tube videos where a guy called julian krause does rigorous testing on various inexpensive audio interfaces.
he tests in detail with charts and measurements. etc etc.

thus i came to the conclusion that the latest generation of interfaces are getting very good these days.
check a few out.
focusrite scarlett
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg6RZZBS9ls
motu m.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3ednXYd1pA
maudio 192
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-q41YOSl_Q
my evo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrAdO8n8cfU

and there are many others simon includeing behringer reviewed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_SRRhXnPrA
heres his channel on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0HrD4cTsQpAZ8KK9jPzzGg
a slew of reviews and measurements.

best
muso.


Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/28/21 01:42 AM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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Don't forget we're dealing with a very small market here. I've read articles about someone approaching an Asian chip maker about producing a specialized chip but as soon as they say they need 50,000 or whatever they get a blank stare. They won't start to get interested until you start talking 10-20 million units. When someone asks why can't these interface manufacturers come up with a higher quality DAC or other component this is the problem. They wind up using chips that are used in everything from cars to A/V receivers in order to piggyback their needs onto high volume low priced chips. I'm probably way off on my example numbers but the point is correct.

This is the same problem with computers. You never see blurbs from Dell, HP or any other computer manufacturers talking about how great they work with DAW's.

Bob


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Good point Bob, especially when you couple that with the desire for a low price point.

Jeff


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jazzmammal
of course good points re market size.
but lets see how the future pans out in the interface market over the next 18 months or so.
interfaces are an ever moving tech.
interestingly enough , i nearly plopped for a wonderfull RME interface.
EVEN MY WIFE WANTED ME TO GET IT !!!!
but the tech rapid changes made me reconsider.

i read recently (forgotten where) some big name recording engr said even budget gear today is often better than what the big boys were useing ages back.

JM/Jeff/Simon.
here was my thinking why i posted those specs up thread.
lets take the soundcraft 12 fx usb mixer for example.
its 179 buks !! and the preamps from what i read are no slouch according to reviews on the preamps ive read. (apparently some users have had driver issues ?)
https://www.soundcraft.com/en/products/notepad-12fx
thats one great deal for such a small sum.

THUS. my thinking was , is it possible to put out a
interface with the specs i posted up thread under 200 buks ?

frankly i'm watching that new black lion usb interface i mentioned up thread, even tho i'm happy with evo so far.
the specs for the black lion interface mention, interestingly enough that it uses "PG-i technology" !
anyone know what PG-i is ?? and its not mentioned if the drivers are multi client.

then of course there is behringer. i would expect them to issue a new series of usb audio interfaces.
i would never underestimate them.
another reason i didnt want to spend lots of dosh on a new interface.

interesting times indeed !

best.
muso.

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/31/21 11:54 AM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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Focusrite 2i4. Have one on each computer.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
jazzmammal
JM/Jeff/Simon.
here was my thinking why i posted those specs up thread.
lets take the soundcraft 12 fx usb mixer for example.
its 179 buks !! and the preamps from what i read are no slouch according to reviews on the preamps ive read. (apparently some users have had driver issues ?)
https://www.soundcraft.com/en/products/notepad-12fx
thats one great deal for such a small sum.

THUS. my thinking was , is it possible to put out a
interface with the specs i posted up thread under 200 buks ?


The problem with this mixer is that the USB audio interface is only 2x2 - 2 input, 2 output. It doesn't record each Mic preamp separately, only the stereo mix out of the board. A 4-channel audio interface with 4 mic preamps would be able to record each one discretely, but would require a higher-level AD/DA chip that can do more than 2 channels at a time. Likely the Soundcraft mixer is using an off-the-shelf chip for that, as previously mentioned.

Look at the Presonus StudioLive AR8c mixer - it's got an 8x4 interface in it, though the price is appropriately inflated to $699 (or $499 for those of you south of the 49th).


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Simon. re 12 fx.
actually there is some confusion on the net over the number of channels one can NOW record with it at one time over usb. apparently the drivers and firmware have been updated ,
as well as the control panel ?
some people are saying now 4x4 ? on the net.
but i cant confirm that.
if you get further info, post back.
from audio examples ive heard it sounds very good to me ,
and various users of the 12fx confirm that fact if one googles.
ive heard no complaints bout a/d/a quality at all.
and everyone seems to like the pre's a lot.

re Presonus. actually awhile back i DID try a presonus audiobox 96.
the mic pre's (although good) didnt crank me up the way evo's do.
the evo mic pre just has "something", a "mojo" (i remember your intelligent dda comment in another thread) i find difficult to put into words.
even sound on sound likes evo's mic pre's//sound as do many other reviewers.
eg https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/audient-evo-4-evo-8
so i dont think i have perception bias.
its all personal preference of course.
how come the brits seem to design such nice mic pre's ?

always the best to you.
muso.

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/03/21 05:02 PM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
Simon. re 12 fx.
actually there is some confusion on the net over the number of channels one can NOW record with it at one time over usb. apparently the drivers and firmware have been updated ,
as well as the control panel ?
some people are saying now 4x4 ? on the net.
but i cant confirm that.
if you get further info, post back.
from audio examples ive heard it sounds very good to me ,
and various users of the 12fx confirm that fact if one googles.
ive heard no complaints bout a/d/a quality at all.
and everyone seems to like the pre's a lot.

re Presonus. actually awhile back i DID try a presonus audiobox 96.
the mic pre's (although good) didnt crank me up the way evo's do.
the evo mic pre just has "something", a "mojo" (i remember your intelligent dda comment in another thread) i find difficult to put into words.
even sound on sound likes evo's mic pre's//sound as do many other reviewers.
eg https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/audient-evo-4-evo-8
so i dont think i have perception bias.
its all personal preference of course.
how come the brits seem to design such nice mic pre's ?

always the best to you.
muso.



Interesting bit on that mixer, I'll have to check it out. I agree, the Presonus pre's didn't do much for me. The ones in my RME are better, though I still definitely prefer using my DDA board, or my old Altec mixer I retrofitted, or the Focusrite channel strip I've got, or even an old Digidesign Pre 8-channel preamp I dug up somewhere that does a crystal clear 69db of gain for 8 channels in 2 rack spaces - not much character, but very accurate and quiet.

As a Brit myself I'll take your comment as a compliment! Or maybe just half a compliment as I'm technically half Brit.


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Simon/ALL.
RE. Allen & Heath ZEDi 10fx usb mixer.
(who are the people that name products ? lol. )
the above is looking interesting. according to specs by AH;
4x4. MULTICLIENT ASIO !, 24 bit/96k. mac/ios/pc.
ie record 4 traks at a time over usb. nice pres apparently.
heres full details. (page down page).
https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/zedi-10fx/
heres the important usb win driver specs/help guide.
https://www.allen-heath.com/media/ZEDi-USB-Windows-Driver-Help.pdf
looks like a very interesting product.
brit designed boutique pres again ?
check out the manuals and driver details.
4ms or less latency i thought i saw on the net ?

anyone know anything ?

best.
muso.
ps brits make some great stuff, cept if i remember the electronics in some cars could be a problem. lol.



Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/05/21 11:16 AM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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Don't know much about the brand Muso but the price is right! I don't recall anyone here on the forums using this brand. Wonder how quiet those pres are.

Being multi client for me is a big deal I typically run BIAB, RB and Cakewalk all at once, switching back and forth in my home studio. When I play for others, I run BIAB and RB at the same time cause some of my song are BIAB only, others RB only.

Jeff


Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2024, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Jeff.
in the last week ive done lots of zed research.
they claim boutique mic pres, and apparently from the reviews
the zed series is v good.

but , its best to do what i do.
my music store i have good relations with and i can return anything within 30 days. or i rent it to test for a while.
thus i'll probably test out any new interface and rent it when it comes out. if it looks promising.

frankly technically its difficult to screw up mic pre designs these days cos of "mic pre's on a chip" etc etc.
thus you can get v low noise mic pre's.

ie chips are ultra low noise. prolly a few nanovolts/hz or less probably.

the DIFFICULT PART is building mic pre's with "mojo" like the old
classic mic pre's.
basically the original op amps were transistor circuits in sealed enclosures if i remember. they even used germanium transistors.

best
muso

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/06/21 02:53 PM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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update.
all.
daw//audio interface users should give this a listen.
latest dawbench radio show jan 2021 episode 8 , co host is from MS.
guess who is crowned king in audio interface rateings?
midi 2.0 also covered and lots of other appropo topics.
details on topics covered at the link.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM...Ag&hl=en-CA

best
muso

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/11/21 04:30 AM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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heres a review of the inexpensive new audient recording bundle
on you tube. i like the down to earth hands on of the review.
it includes evo 4 (that i'm testing out, so far no probs),
a mic and headphones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpS9mN--Zuc

best
muso

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/12/21 05:55 AM.

New Song "PRETTY GIRL" for my wife...Dec 2023
(my vocs....mixed for good earbuds.)
https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs/prettygirlrbfinalcalfsongsdec2023mp3
(and rock song THE STALLION and bluegrass song... BANKER MAN....90 songs useing bb/rb.)
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Originally Posted By: MountainSide
Don't know much about the brand Muso but the price is right! I don't recall anyone here on the forums using this brand. Wonder how quiet those pres are.

Being multi client for me is a big deal I typically run BIAB, RB and Cakewalk all at once, switching back and forth in my home studio. When I play for others, I run BIAB and RB at the same time cause some of my song are BIAB only, others RB only.

Jeff


Allen & Heath is generally great quality stuff - higher build and sound quality than the regular cheapies - Behringer, Mackie, Yamaha, probably roughly the equivalent to a Soundcraft perhaps. I've sold many over the years at a previous job, and customers were always happy.


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I USE a Focusrite 2i4. I own a couple of M-Audio interfaces too. One is a Fast Track Pro and the other is an M-Track 2x2. I just like the Focusrite better and the ASIO driver doesn't fail at all. I actually use it as my Windows sound device full time. My computer speakers in my office are KRK Rokit 5 monitors.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Originally Posted By: eddie1261
I just like the Focusrite better and the ASIO driver doesn't fail at all. I actually use it as my Windows sound device full time.

Same here with the 18i20, no issues for years...




Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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I've been using a Roland quad-capture for many years...
Just bought a microphone and thought it would be fun to try and record myself...
Unfortunately there are problems with latency.
Whilst Band-in-a-box recognises the ASIO drivers, RealBand will not.
I've used this as an excuse to but a Solid State Logic SSL2+ which I hope will arrive next week.
Anybody using the SSL2+

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