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#628789 - 12/08/20 03:33 PM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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eddie1261 Offline
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The thing I am trying to do is for an intro and the end of chorus in a song I have almost all the way written. I just can't make that exact groove thing happen.
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#628801 - 12/08/20 04:13 PM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 03/07/18
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Bob C.
"it's an auto accompaniment program."
Indeed. And do most arrangers (physical or software) offer at least 16 tracks? YES, absolutely. Adding those tracks to BIAB is a big (huge!) deal. Even now, at early release stage, these extra tracks are very useful! Hopefully soon they will fully work with Midi, (that will surely will make Mario happy). No, I do not want BIAB to become a DAW.

I also believe your #3 is a bit too dark. There are still a couple of BIG items in the wishlist, but only a couple. Most other requests seem to be achievable. I do agree with you that things got to be fixed and streamlined more aggressively. Mostly I am talking about features and functions that are already in place.

I wasn't here for long, but even I can see significant improvements. I am very glad PG team is surviving as business in this ridiculous, widely unexpected, horrible time of pandemic and bringing us something positive. People spend more for haircuts than most PG updates cost (1/2 price at this time). I feel that updating is worth every cent, even if I will not end up using 85% of released content and program features.

"however, after the rant i am going to upgrade to 2021 as soon as the patches seem to slow down" smile smile

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#628854 - 12/08/20 10:25 PM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Originally Posted By: eddie1261
The thing I am trying to do is for an intro and the end of chorus in a song I have almost all the way written. I just can't make that exact groove thing happen.
Eddie, now that I heard your example of the rhythm (via email) and it's not triplets, it should be very easy to fix your song. If you post the song here, I'll be happy to help.
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BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Adam sub & monitors.

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#628868 - 12/09/20 12:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Matt Finley]
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bobcflatpicker Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Originally Posted By: eddie1261
The thing I am trying to do is for an intro and the end of chorus in a song I have almost all the way written. I just can't make that exact groove thing happen.
Eddie, now that I heard your example of the rhythm (via email) and it's not triplets, it should be very easy to fix your song. If you post the song here, I'll be happy to help.



That would be really cool if you could do that for Eddie. I hope you're successful.

It's really nice of you to offer to do that.
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#628891 - 12/09/20 06:53 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 04/08/11
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Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
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MATT FIXED THE PROBLEM!!!!!

I was programming the timing all wrong, putting the caret in the wrong place! I can finally write this song. And send it off to Sarah Buxton, who will sing it, record it, put it on an album, and win a Grammy for song of the year!!! Which of course gets me a statue too for writing it!

All because of Matt!!

Thanks man.
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#628892 - 12/09/20 07:13 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: eddie1261]
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bobcflatpicker Offline
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Congratulations Eddie!

Thanks Matt.
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#628915 - 12/09/20 08:39 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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Matt Finley Offline
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What do I win?

(Kidding)

Time to mark your request resolved.
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#628920 - 12/09/20 08:52 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Matt Finley]
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eddie1261 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
What do I win?


You got a thank you and a compliment from ME of, all people!!

That is more rare than a unicorn skateboarding on a triple rainbow.
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#628940 - 12/09/20 09:30 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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Matt Finley Offline
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You’re welcome Eddie. Would you consider acknowledging that there was nothing wrong with the program? This is for others who read these posts.
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#628947 - 12/09/20 09:39 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Matt Finley]
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eddie1261 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Would you consider acknowledging that there was nothing wrong with the program? This is for others who read these posts.


Absolutely. I was doing it wrong. I didn't know where to put the caret. Matt showed me.
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#628985 - 12/09/20 12:04 PM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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Notes Norton Offline
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I've written styles for a few auto-accompaniment programs and BiaB is and always has been the best. It has the most musical output.

I've never used it as an end-all app though. After finishing all I can do with BiaB, I export the file and import it to a DAW. Two different apps for two different functions.

I think every computer musician needs 3 apps, (1_ a DAW that also has good MIDI capabilities (2) Band-in-a-Box (3) A music notation app.

These 3 do what they do better than the others and complement each other.

Insights and incites by Notes
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#628992 - 12/09/20 12:45 PM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Notes Norton]
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MarioD Offline
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Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
........................
I think every computer musician needs 3 apps, (1_ a DAW that also has good MIDI capabilities (2) Band-in-a-Box (3) A music notation app.

These 3 do what they do better than the others and complement each other.

Insights and incites by Notes


I agree.

I would add a basic knowledge of computers. You really have to be a "geek" to use musician's programs like the above three to get the most out of them. YMMV
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#629028 - 12/09/20 02:56 PM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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eddie1261 Offline
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I would also add a high quality interface. A good interface will include good software so the ASIO driver that services your interface should handshake flawlessly. I have always had a problem philosophically with "one size fits all" stuff like ASIO4All. My ASIO driver for my Focusrite comes with the Focusrite. Most MIDI problems I have ever had were ID10T errors.
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#636332 - 01/14/21 04:40 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 09/21/01
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Bob Calver Online   content
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I revisited this thread as it seems we are six weeks since the 2021 BIAB version was launched and people are still reporting new bugs. as it gets more complicated the more opportunities for bugs. i still think the perfect combination for most of us is BIAB and the DAW of our choice. can't think of any wish list requests that won't meet. and PG could concentrate on the auto accompaniment issues like time signatures if they didn't try to add bolts ons to a program that is trying to move further away from its basic function. see Note Norton's post above - BIAB is an amazing auto accompaniment program. concentrate on that.

however, i have upgraded and i'm delighted but i personally don't use a lot of the new functions. i use RealBand the way others use other DAWs to do the heavy editing and polishing.

maybe PG is just responding to its customer base but some of the long term auto accompaniment feature fixes requested might be just as good a way to meet customer demand.

still, great product and great people at PG Music.

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#636337 - 01/14/21 05:19 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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VideoTrack Online   content
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Quote:
I revisited this thread as it seems we are six weeks since the 2021 BIAB version was launched and people are still reporting new bugs. as it gets more complicated the more opportunities for bugs
For a long time, I've always wished that a new release might be provided that just focused more on resolving known existing issues, rather than leaving those known bugs within the system and always producing a further 'x' number of new features, thus only adding to the known number of existing issues.

Others might take the direction that fixing known bugs won't attract new customers, but I also think that new customers would prefer to know how the program is being improved by resolving known issues.

I would prefer to work with an operating system that was 'bug-free', rather than always dodging problems because the operating system had known issues on certain functions. Few could argue that philosophy.
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#636368 - 01/14/21 08:52 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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Bob Calver Online   content
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agreed videotrack but i'm not sure the 'improvements' attract new customers. BIAB is already an amazing program. utility tracks for example seem to be a response to existing users who want BIAB to offer DAW-like capabilities.

'any time signature, any key, thousands of hours of top session musicians playing just what you want' seems to me more powerful than 'now with a few extra tracks'


Edited by Bob Calver (01/14/21 08:53 AM)

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#636583 - 01/15/21 07:05 PM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
Registered: 03/07/18
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Videotrack,
makes sense... but I do not fully agree with statement:
"producing a further 'x' number of new features"
It is more like "XX" features, where it in theory, bearing in mind resources, should be "X" features. I would gladly settle for 2-3 BIG new yearly features which are thoroughly tested (even if they have little use for me personally) and the rest going to bug/issue fixes.

Bob,
"users who want BIAB to offer DAW-like capabilities."
Wrong! More like: Users who want BIAB to have capabilities of most arrangers that had been released in last 20 years (and whole bunch before that). And we are 1/2+ way there. No cry baby stuff! smile

Topic reminded me of a joke...
The sign at computer repair shop:
Theory - is when you know everything, but nothing works.
Practice- is when everything works, but nobody knows why.
Only HERE, we incorporate theory and practice - Nothing works and nobody knows why!

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#636587 - 01/15/21 07:39 PM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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VideoTrack Online   content
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In this case, 'X' is merely an unknown quantity. Like an unknown quantity of a mixture of 'new features' and associated 'operational issues' cry .
But I get your point wink
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#637741 - 01/22/21 03:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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Bob Calver Online   content
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a quote from another post by Shane............

I don't want any 7th's or anything like that in the song. I'm simply trying to form a song with straight A - D - E chords. No matter what style I choose (currently using "Swabbie autoharp folk waltz") BIAB is adding in what sounds like a 7th on some parts especially toward the end of the song and it doesn't work with a song like that. It's like it's forcing a blues feel on the song so to speak?

it appears that the problem happens when Shane changes key from A to B.

Andrew's reply was.............

The reason that this is happening is a combination of these two things (A) Band-in-a-Box generates the file based on the original key of your song. (B) RealTracks artists play what is natural for them to play for a chord in that style of music, so seeing a B chord in the key of A, many RealTracks will play the b7.

Andrew went on to say..........

It would definitely be a desirable feature for it to be able to follow key changes within the song for RT generation. Another useful feature would be an F5 bar setting to treat major/minor as I chord and/or the ability to force the chord to a triad. These features currently aren't present.


I think this is the kind of fix needed to keep BIAB as the go to software for auto accompaniment. Adding extras which seem to break many current functionalities seems counter productive when the basic function can be improved. And its over two weeks since we got the latest patch so fixing bugs is obviously taking a long time due to the added complications of the 'new features'.

Rant over. I still love BIAB and the marvel of RealTracks.

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#637760 - 01/22/21 05:54 AM [Off-Topic] Re: the three phases of a machine - does it apply to BIAB? [Re: Bob Calver]
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Charlie Fogle Offline
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That's all true Bob but the perceived flaw to the RealTrack is due to it being recorded audio and not the recorder that's flawed. The flaw is applicable to every program that utilizes recorded audio and not limited to BIAB. The same issue would exist in any software program using that recorded audio.

Thus, the solution to correct the errant chords will also be the same. Which is the same as it was 60 plus years ago - record the correct chord and punch it in where ever necessary. In essence, that's Andrew's solution offered by producing additional audio (Key 2) that plays the correct chord or inversion and makes it available to replace the specific incorrect or undesired audio. Audio engineering 101.

The fix needed to keep BIAB as the go to software for auto accompaniment is to produce the desired audio either by recording additional audio material and programming the software to search for it, recognize and assimilate it into the Chord Chart or to artificially manipulate it to do the same.
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