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Songwriting
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OP
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Hi everybody,
Just wanted to ask - does anyone know of ways for songwriters to get noticed with their songs? I have looked at many websites, such as Reverbnation, Music Gateway, etc. - they all seem to offer opportunities for performing artists, or (at best) singer-songwriters. I am a songwriter who just wants to sell his songs - i.e. not to perform them, but to sell their performance/recording rights (etc.) to artists who are interested in performing them.
The only thing I can find are songwriting competitions. I'd rather use those as a last resort, but - if there's nothing else, I will indeed go in for them, too. In the meantime, I'd rather find a way to pitch my songs to interested people, as above - any thoughts? Many thanks for your kind time and for any replies!!!
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Personally, I avoid songwriter competitions. They're not worth the time and money.
But you have a great question.
As far as selling the song to artists.... That's not exactly how it works. But I understand what you mean. You sign the song to a publisher and they place it for commercial use. That's generally, in a nutshell, how it's done. If you happen to personally know the artist, you can write with them and get it published that way too. That's extremely hard. In fact, the competition for album cuts is beyond competitive. You're competing with the artist, his close circle of top tier writers and everyone else who are staff writers with publishers.... It's brutal. Not impossible but hard to do.
There's also songwriter groups. Folks like Nashville songwriters association international in Nashville, and Taxi in LA, that serve various purposes. NSAI is primarily educational. But if you write a killer song, they can offer suggestions on what to do. Taxi is a lead service. They provide leads to commercial projects. Films and TV shows looking for specific music and other such opportunity. Of course, you pay a membership and a submission fee and then have to get it past their screeners. Then, you're in competition with hundreds of top tier writers for that one spot. If your music is selected and used, you can make anywhere from 5¢ to a few dollars. In some cases there's actually pretty decent money involved but that's not common and is for big name companies producing a national TV commercial. Money is made by having a large number of cuts in rotation and use. I saw the PRO statement for one individual who had been doing this for a number of years. It was five or six pages long of cues used. Pennies add up.
Another option is to search the internet for music libraries and publishers. Find your own, vet them and submit your music to them. They get the listings from producers and place your music in the inbox of the end user and hopefully, your music gets the cut.
This last method is how I got a few TV and movie cuts.
Keep in mind that nothing worth doing is going to be easy. This is no exception. Look at this like a business, approach it With a plan and see where it takes you. Right now, understand that no one is looking for your music. You must create that market yourself.
Hope this is helpful.
Good luck.
Some other folks here are also licensing their music and hopefully will join this thread with their perspective and ideas on how they are doing it.
Edit: the hosting sites that sell for you... Soundclick, reverbnation, and others..... Bwahahaha.... I've sold a few songs that way but they have minimum dispersion levels so until you accumulate a certain amount of money, normally about $25, they are not going to pay you.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 01/17/21 04:45 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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Making even a modest living in songwriting is quite difficult. Hitting it "big" is about as likely as winning the lottery.
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As others have stated, making any kind of living by writing songs exclusively is difficult bordering on impossible. It's a dwindling, dying profession, as the business has morphed over to labels primarily signing artists who write their own songs. I've been doing it for a living since the early 80s and have had a lot of songs recorded, but in the past decade/decade & 1/2, the cuts I've gotten have been almost exclusively songs I co-write with the artist who records them (or TV/film synch placements like Guitarhacker mentioned).
The first and most important thing you need to do if you're determined to pursue it is to educate yourself about the business. You don't "sell" songs - using that terminology to an industry professional is the equivalent of saying "I don't have a clue what I'm doing". Not knowing is okay, we all have been there at some point....but it means that you're not ready to submit your material yet.
I'd recommend doing two things. First, get a copy of a book called "All You Need To Know About The Music Business" by Donald Passman. I think the current edition is the 10th, and that's the one you want. You don't need to read it cover to cover, but you need to read the chapters on songwriting and music publishing. It was written for the U.S. market but most of it applies to the UK as well. At the very least you'll get a grasp of how the business works in regards to songwriting. Second, I would recommend researching and trying to find a songwriting organization in the UK to join. If one doesn't exist, you could join one in the U.S. (they take international members). A couple worth exploring would be SONA and NSAI. I would recommend NSAI (disclaimer- I'm biased, because I'm on it's BOD, but at least check it out for yourself).
Best of luck to you.
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Thank you, everyone, so very much for your kind thoughts and time taken to reply to my question. I'm not so interested in the financial aspect of things - what I do care about is getting my songs, if they are good enough, to be heard by more people. Right now, I'm relying on word of mouth to spread the word and, although I'm happy with how it's going, I'd like to take it up a notch if at all possible.
To that end, therefore, I will definitely follow your advice and research every suggestion given. I am right now looking at the NSAI website and - on a first glance - it looks very promising, though I of course need to take my time with all of this and digest it properly. I will also, without a doubt, buy and optically devour the book Mr Brown suggested, above.
Again, the reason I want to do this is certainly not for the money; but I want to get my songs "out there" and, crucially, test myself against the best - because that way I can improve my own songwriting skills more. It feels a little demoralising to write what I personally think of as good songs and have them sit in my SoundCloud account, gathering dust - I want to see just how good or bad they objectively are, and - if they're not good enough at THAT standard, come back and write even better. While it would be nice to be appreciated financially, of course - that's not crossing my mind right now, of course.
Again - THANK YOU for taking the time to point me in the proper direction - really appreciated!
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Hi everybody,
Just wanted to ask - does anyone know of ways for songwriters to get noticed with their songs? You should probably check out TAXI. It is a service that lists specific people looking for specific song needs. For songwriters, bands, film use, etc. It's expensive but really one of the few ways to get to the people you want to get to without having to go in with a cold unsolicited pitch. An alternative way which in ways is even better is this. Pitch your songs to an artist that is talented and on the rise, but not yet super well known. Easier to get to so more likely to make a connection. Even if they don't make it big you still will be getting your songs out there and heard. If you do that with enough artists eventually one of the artists is likely to be one to become very successful. It may take years of effort, but meanwhile you'll be doing what you love. Particularly suitable because you said you don't care as much about the financial payoff. The key is finding a way to do something you love, that most people give up on because they go about it the impossible way trying to compete with massive amounts of other songwriters...in the same places and the same strategy. Be different. It'll pay off.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jan 2021
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A simple thought here, but others have given you their best advice.
One of the happiest moments as a new songwriter is when you ask someone to perform your song... hmm... now how about do I go about this
well, to keep it simple
- join a guitar forum that the owner teaches its member to play their own music
- make some post to get known, but kind of don't push the songwriting wish out there just yet
- learn which members can sing and compose their own music
- after being on the forum listen to the " silent character " of the artist and see if one of your songs fits their personality
- make an into of yourself to that person by a PM
- have a song completed with your music and recorded ( the rawer it is, the better )
- ask a member if they'd be interested in recording the song for fun
- let that person have a 100% of their own creativity and take a back seat
- enjoy the ride with a smile
- the above is a 100% confidence builder for any new or experience songwriter
good luck
need a forum as such, PM me if interested
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Songwriting
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OP
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Thanks everybody - ever so kind. Food for thought!
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Songwriting
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Network
Get out and meet people — Network
Make the rounds at open mics (when it's safe) — Network
If someone needs a side person for a recording or demo, you got this — Network
Support up and coming artists — Network
Do showcase gigs — Network
Music is one business where it really is all about whom you know. The last time I called someone I didn't know for a gig was 1988 — turned out, he already knew who I was from many different people. How do you think that happened?
Be available.
Be reliable.
Be flexible.
Be Prepared.
A friend places music and songs in movies and on TV. She says, "I never need your song. Unless I do on a Wednesday night for a pitch on Friday. Then you'd better be available with all rights owned and cleared. Whatever I ask you to do, the answer needs to be 'Yes'. If it's ever 'No', you will never be called again.“
Above all, Network!
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At the very least sign up with Songtradr. I won't go into their business model as you can read all about them on their website. Suffice it to say that the basic membership is free and allows you to submit songs to opportunities they post plus your songs are always available for a seller who might find them via your descriptive data, etc. You can upload all the songs you desire as there is no pre-screening process for acceptance. The chances of the big one are low but as said it costs nothing but a little time. We have had 24 songs licensed through them. Most of them were to Mood Media which is the largest global supplier of music to businesses...think of music you hear in a restaurant, etc. Not much money but at least your songs are spread around the planet  We also had three songs licensed via ST that paid out several hundreds of dollars. Again not much but we are in this for fun only and we don't spend any time pushing stuff other than at Soundcloud where they do the pushing. There are MANY music (or sync) libraries on the net other than SC that unlike Taxi don't charge you for reviewing your songs for acceptance into their catalog. And they make major placements on occasion as does Songtradr. FWIW Bud
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Bud, who’s your PRO? Do your MOOD plays ever show up in your royalty statements? If not, are you reporting them?
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God bless you. Thank you so much for so many in-depth and genuine answers. I think Songtradr is absolutely worth registering with - and I am going to do so as soon as I finish typing this!
Networking is fine; the only problem (perhaps it's all in my head!) that I have with it is that I don't like to perform my own songs - a nightmare of a problem to have, right? I'd rather others did ... so I haven't frequented open mics, etc., for this very reason. But I probably ought to get that idea out of my head, and - at least until someone else does show an interest in performing my songs - I ought to do it myself?
THANKS so much, again, for your kindness and for your time!
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Bud, who’s your PRO? Do your MOOD plays ever show up in your royalty statements? If not, are you reporting them? BMI. But we get the Mood Media payments (along with a couple of other overhead music providers) from Songtradr directly to our account with them. And that is the extent of my knowledge about how it works Bud
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I would definitely ask BMI about that. Then I would talk to ASCAP Member Services.
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Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
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We have had 24 songs licensed through them. Wow! That's a success. Did you use songs created with BIAB?
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We have had 24 songs licensed through them. Wow! That's a success. Did you use songs created with BIAB? Thanks! All of them included RT's and RD's and all have been posted on the forum. Bud
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The dominant model during the glory days of broadcast media has changed, but not completely disappeared. I refer to a production formula in which the performers and the songs were carefully matched for max effect. Examples abound. Wasn't Frank Sinatra perfect for sophisticated lounge songs? Can you imagine Hank, Jr. doing anything other than rowdy drinking songs? I think you get my point. Today's singer is actually a stage or media performer set to music.
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First, get a copy of a book called "All You Need To Know About The Music Business" by Donald Passman. I think the current edition is the 10th, and that's the one you want. Spend some money on your education. Music Business BooksI used to recommend everyone get all three but all are now showing their age. All are written by attorneys. The best thing is that, having read these, one gets a clear idea of what can be done by the musician & songwriter (quite a lot!) and when a person needs legal advice. In that case, having read up saves money by knowing the questions to ask. Kindle editions will save a few $$. Unfortunately, all three are a bit out of date now that the MMA is finally being implemented but they’re a good start.
Hopefully, Don Passman will update his book soon. In Order: This one is considered the Bible. It's also the least out of date. All You Need to Know About the Music Business: Tenth Edition Hardcover by Donald S. Passman October 29, 2019 All You Need to Know… Music Money and Success 8th Edition: The Insider's Guide to Making Money in the Music Business Paperback by Jeffrey Brabec (Author) , Todd Brabec (Author) November 1, 2018 Music, Money & Success
The Brabecs can be reached on LinkedIn and will often answer questions.
This is the scary one but it tells you how the industry really works in ways the others don. I do wish he'd update it, however. Great companion to either of the above or both. What They'll Never Tell You About the Music Business, Third Edition: The Complete Guide for Musicians, Songwriters, Producers, Managers, Industry Executives, Attorneys, Investors, and Accountants Paperback by Peter M. Thall (Author) August 2016. What They'll Never Tell You… Do not cheap out and buy older editions. The music business keeps changing.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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I make some handy pocket money every month with Songtradr. Well worth a try.The bonus is you still own your songs. Rob4580 At the very least sign up with Songtradr. I won't go into their business model as you can read all about them on their website. Suffice it to say that the basic membership is free and allows you to submit songs to opportunities they post plus your songs are always available for a seller who might find them via your descriptive data, etc. You can upload all the songs you desire as there is no pre-screening process for acceptance. The chances of the big one are low but as said it costs nothing but a little time. We have had 24 songs licensed through them. Most of them were to Mood Media which is the largest global supplier of music to businesses...think of music you hear in a restaurant, etc. Not much money but at least your songs are spread around the planet We also had three songs licensed via ST that paid out several hundreds of dollars. Again not much but we are in this for fun only and we don't spend any time pushing stuff other than at Soundcloud where they do the pushing. There are MANY music (or sync) libraries on the net other than SC that unlike Taxi don't charge you for reviewing your songs for acceptance into their catalog. And they make major placements on occasion as does Songtradr. FWIW Bud
Last edited by Rob4580; 03/04/21 09:37 PM.
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An organisation that may benefit the OP as he’s in the UK is The Ivors Academy. Back in the day it was called BASCA (British Association of Songwriters Composers and Authors). They hold workshops and other events which can be helpful to professional and would be songwriters. Members are not expected to be performers. The link is here: The Ivors Academy
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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