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#645463 - 03/07/21 11:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: dpresley]
Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 616
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Dave Offline
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Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 616
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
+1
I check the initial release notes and unless there is something I really need, or a fix for something that should have been fixed years ago, I just don't bother. To be honest, realtracks are great, but I have enough for what I want / need, so they are not as great a draw as they maybe for many others.

As many have said, we now have bandaids upon bandaids. I love the product but have stayed away from recent upgrades just because it seems that's where the failures seem to occur most. I am happy with the old tracks, even the old track names. For me the last "wow" item was probably the mixer. 2021 seems to be the most unstable release in the life of the software. I have been around for more than 20 years, so I have seen my fair share of horror stories.

Maybe next year...
_________________________
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
Windows 10 (1909)

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#645467 - 03/07/21 11:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 2093
Loc: Derry,Ireland
musiclover Offline
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Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 2093
Loc: Derry,Ireland
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
Thanks for the inputs. We read them all and appreciate any constructive criticism. The recent release (825) in the support area fixes several issues (including the style-change-at-a-bar issue mentioned). We work hard to correct reported issues, add requested features and develop more RealTracks.


Good to see you Peter as the CEO of PGMusic taking part in the thread, Hope that you will be able to get future Upgrades coded ie Band in a box 2022 so that the Realtracks will work with this years Stable version when it reaches that stage, which will please a lot of users I am sure, and the users will be able to test the new version at thier leisure.

Many thanks.


Edited by musiclover (03/07/21 11:51 AM)
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My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2021, Cubase elements 11 and Cakewalk by Bandlab.

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#645474 - 03/07/21 12:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 01/10/21
Posts: 15
PSUnderwood Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/10/21
Posts: 15
I was a software engineer for many years before my retirement. Matt is absolutely correct; the best tester knows absolutely nothing about what he is testing. I was in an environment where it was expected that the engineer who coded something also was responsible for testing it. That's a recipe for disaster; the engineer is going to test what he/she knows the software does (called a "sunny day scenario"), but the end user will ALWAYS do something unexpected.

That said, it's axiomatic that any program, no matter how simple, from "Hello World" on up is impossible to test for all possible use cases. Consider as an extreme a complete set of tests for a program whose only purpose is to add two integers. A full regression test would test the result of adding all possible combinations of two integers - banging one infinite set against another. So you test what you decide is reasonable to test, edge cases and so on. But never every conceivable test.

Then some bright user decides to add infinity to infinity...

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#645475 - 03/07/21 12:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21989
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21989
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Or divide by zero.
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BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam sub & monitors

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#645495 - 03/07/21 03:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13059
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13059
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Someone will always do the unexpected. What's important here is that the program handles these situations elegantly.
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BIAB & RB2021(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#645499 - 03/07/21 03:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 15474
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 15474
Loc: Hamlin NY
When I was writing macros in Lotus 123 and Excel and writing Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) we called "beta tests" gorilla tests. Like Matt we would take someone who knew nothing about computers to test the macros and someone who knew nothing of the SOP object (machine operation, testing procedures, etc) to try to run/operate it by only using the SOP. You learn very quickly how difficult it is to write/program things like that.

PS - I was the gorilla on a couple of SOPs!
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

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#645578 - 03/08/21 09:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 616
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Dave Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 616
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I worked for several years as a programmer and later as a computer systems auditor. We were required to develop a set of regression tests that were used by the programmer to test their own work to ensue they hadn't broken something that had previously worked. When changing a program, you tested your changes first with the regression series and once they had cleared these tests, scenarios were developed to exercise the new stuff. The purpose was to try to break their own code. If it didn't break, they hadn't tried hard enough. Eventually these new tests were added to the regression library to be used for the next release.
When working for industry or finance, for instance, coding errors could result in a fatal crash or a financial disaster. Under these conditions BIAB would never have left the programmers desk.
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BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
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#645593 - 03/08/21 10:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21989
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21989
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I would like to see beta testing start quite a bit earlier, and begin with the program having all announced features present.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam sub & monitors

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#645608 - 03/08/21 11:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13059
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13059
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I would like to see beta testing start quite a bit earlier, and begin with the program having all announced features present.

Definitely supported.
Current beta test times are totally inadequate, putting a product to market with known issues, insufficient testing and incomplete development. Very frustrating for the beta testers.
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BIAB & RB2021(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#645625 - 03/08/21 12:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2787
Rustyspoon# Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2787
Or...
Consider rolling out a few updates at a time, with testing in between throughout the year.
More time for beta testers + more stable product with less frustrations for end users.

Another HUGE reason for doing it this way is somewhat in line what Gordon Scott had mentioned:
"What's interesting is that I've quite often started over and complete the better way in a tiny fraction of the time the original took."

It is astonishingly true and I think it could apply to BIAB in some way. Meaning, when you doing some deep structural changes and not being pressed by time, you can find other perhaps much better ways to do other planned things.

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#645680 - 03/08/21 06:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1917
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
MountainSide Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1917
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
This is a good point Matt and one that should seriously be considered by PG.

Although some of us like the challenge of finding little cracks here and there in the software, myself included, I would guess that many of the 2021 users are starting to reach the point of frustration and judging from some of the comments maybe worse.

Jeff
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Win10, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2021, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive Touch, Kontakt 5.8, SampleTank 4.13

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#645693 - 03/08/21 09:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 321
NigelSpiers Online   content
Journeyman

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 321
Hi Peter (Gannon),

Yes great to see you joining this thread.

It is now completely clear to you and everybody at PG Music what your customers want:

1. No new functionality in 2021 - Fix the software - current version and previous versions problems.

2. Invite world class performers into your studio to record the Realtracks that have been mostly requested by your customers over the last few years e.g. Brass Rhythm Section, Organ B3 soloist, Blues Harp Soloist.

A statement from you along these lines would be very welcome and may encourage customers to upgrade to BIAB 2021 or 2022 later this year.

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel

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PG Music News
Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac® - DAW Plugin 3.0 New Features

The Band-in-a-Box® 2021 DAW Plugin offers great new features including enhanced audio rendering, support for displaying two chord types, the ability to change audio output channels, and we've added table view buttons. Now you can Import MIDI markers and tempo map, export chord markers as a MIDI file, generate all ungenerated tracks, and much more!

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Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac is Here!

Just released: Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac with over 50 new features, 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, Artist Performances, Bonus RealDrums "Singles," RealDrums transcriptions, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 11, and more!

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We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2021 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks and MultiStyles PAK 1) upgrade it to the 2021 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

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Learn more about all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Mac

Read the Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Upgrade Manual: Online Manual | PDF Download
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Customers LOVE Xtra Styles PAK 11 for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows!

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There are some great styles in this XtraPAK.

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We've also updated the Song Titles database, resolved user-reported issues for various drum features, and more.

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