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#645463 - 03/07/21 11:08 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: dpresley]
Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 614
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Dave Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 614
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
+1
I check the initial release notes and unless there is something I really need, or a fix for something that should have been fixed years ago, I just don't bother. To be honest, realtracks are great, but I have enough for what I want / need, so they are not as great a draw as they maybe for many others.

As many have said, we now have bandaids upon bandaids. I love the product but have stayed away from recent upgrades just because it seems that's where the failures seem to occur most. I am happy with the old tracks, even the old track names. For me the last "wow" item was probably the mixer. 2021 seems to be the most unstable release in the life of the software. I have been around for more than 20 years, so I have seen my fair share of horror stories.

Maybe next year...
_________________________
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
Windows 10 (1909)

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#645467 - 03/07/21 11:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 2074
Loc: Derry,Ireland
musiclover Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 2074
Loc: Derry,Ireland
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
Thanks for the inputs. We read them all and appreciate any constructive criticism. The recent release (825) in the support area fixes several issues (including the style-change-at-a-bar issue mentioned). We work hard to correct reported issues, add requested features and develop more RealTracks.


Good to see you Peter as the CEO of PGMusic taking part in the thread, Hope that you will be able to get future Upgrades coded ie Band in a box 2022 so that the Realtracks will work with this years Stable version when it reaches that stage, which will please a lot of users I am sure, and the users will be able to test the new version at thier leisure.

Many thanks.


Edited by musiclover (03/07/21 11:51 AM)
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My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2021, Cubase elements 11 and Cakewalk by Bandlab.

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#645474 - 03/07/21 12:06 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 01/10/21
Posts: 15
PSUnderwood Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/10/21
Posts: 15
I was a software engineer for many years before my retirement. Matt is absolutely correct; the best tester knows absolutely nothing about what he is testing. I was in an environment where it was expected that the engineer who coded something also was responsible for testing it. That's a recipe for disaster; the engineer is going to test what he/she knows the software does (called a "sunny day scenario"), but the end user will ALWAYS do something unexpected.

That said, it's axiomatic that any program, no matter how simple, from "Hello World" on up is impossible to test for all possible use cases. Consider as an extreme a complete set of tests for a program whose only purpose is to add two integers. A full regression test would test the result of adding all possible combinations of two integers - banging one infinite set against another. So you test what you decide is reasonable to test, edge cases and so on. But never every conceivable test.

Then some bright user decides to add infinity to infinity...

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#645475 - 03/07/21 12:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21811
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21811
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Or divide by zero.
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BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam sub & monitors

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#645495 - 03/07/21 03:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12846
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12846
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Someone will always do the unexpected. What's important here is that the program handles these situations elegantly.
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BIAB & RB2021(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#645499 - 03/07/21 03:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: VideoTrack]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 15362
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 15362
Loc: Hamlin NY
When I was writing macros in Lotus 123 and Excel and writing Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) we called "beta tests" gorilla tests. Like Matt we would take someone who knew nothing about computers to test the macros and someone who knew nothing of the SOP object (machine operation, testing procedures, etc) to try to run/operate it by only using the SOP. You learn very quickly how difficult it is to write/program things like that.

PS - I was the gorilla on a couple of SOPs!
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

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#645578 - 03/08/21 09:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 614
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Dave Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 614
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
I worked for several years as a programmer and later as a computer systems auditor. We were required to develop a set of regression tests that were used by the programmer to test their own work to ensue they hadn't broken something that had previously worked. When changing a program, you tested your changes first with the regression series and once they had cleared these tests, scenarios were developed to exercise the new stuff. The purpose was to try to break their own code. If it didn't break, they hadn't tried hard enough. Eventually these new tests were added to the regression library to be used for the next release.
When working for industry or finance, for instance, coding errors could result in a fatal crash or a financial disaster. Under these conditions BIAB would never have left the programmers desk.
_________________________
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
Windows 10 (1909)

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#645593 - 03/08/21 10:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21811
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21811
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I would like to see beta testing start quite a bit earlier, and begin with the program having all announced features present.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & 2020 Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam sub & monitors

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#645608 - 03/08/21 11:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12846
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 12846
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I would like to see beta testing start quite a bit earlier, and begin with the program having all announced features present.

Definitely supported.
Current beta test times are totally inadequate, putting a product to market with known issues, insufficient testing and incomplete development. Very frustrating for the beta testers.
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BIAB & RB2021(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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#645625 - 03/08/21 12:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2728
Rustyspoon# Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2728
Or...
Consider rolling out a few updates at a time, with testing in between throughout the year.
More time for beta testers + more stable product with less frustrations for end users.

Another HUGE reason for doing it this way is somewhat in line what Gordon Scott had mentioned:
"What's interesting is that I've quite often started over and complete the better way in a tiny fraction of the time the original took."

It is astonishingly true and I think it could apply to BIAB in some way. Meaning, when you doing some deep structural changes and not being pressed by time, you can find other perhaps much better ways to do other planned things.

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#645680 - 03/08/21 06:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1889
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
MountainSide Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1889
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
This is a good point Matt and one that should seriously be considered by PG.

Although some of us like the challenge of finding little cracks here and there in the software, myself included, I would guess that many of the 2021 users are starting to reach the point of frustration and judging from some of the comments maybe worse.

Jeff
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Win10, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2021, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive Touch, Kontakt 5.8, SampleTank 4.13

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#645693 - 03/08/21 09:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Unhappy With BIAB 2021 [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 279
NigelSpiers Online   content
Apprentice

Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 279
Hi Peter (Gannon),

Yes great to see you joining this thread.

It is now completely clear to you and everybody at PG Music what your customers want:

1. No new functionality in 2021 - Fix the software - current version and previous versions problems.

2. Invite world class performers into your studio to record the Realtracks that have been mostly requested by your customers over the last few years e.g. Brass Rhythm Section, Organ B3 soloist, Blues Harp Soloist.

A statement from you along these lines would be very welcome and may encourage customers to upgrade to BIAB 2021 or 2022 later this year.

Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel

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PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows is Xtra Ready!

The latest free patch update for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows readies the program for the just-launched Xtra Styles PAK 11 for Windows (on sale until May 31st - learn more here)!

We've also updated the Song Titles database, resolved user-reported issues for various drum features, and more.

Learn more & download the latest Band-in-a-Box® 2020 build 833 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Russian for Windows is Here!

Мы хорошо потрудились и добавили 80 новых функций и изумительную коллекцию нового контента, включая 202 стиля RealTracks, новые стили RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, инструментальные этюды (Instrumental Studies), записи профессионального живого исполнения (Artist Performances), поставляемые в качестве бонуса отдельные инструменты RealDrums (RealDrums "Singles"), транскрипции стилей RealDrums, набор мультистилей MultiStyles PAK 1, набор экстра-стилей Xtra Styles PAK 10 и др.!

новых | Пакеты

Just Released - Xtra Styles PAK 11 for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows!

We've added 200 exciting new RealStyles with the just-released Xtra Styles PAK 11 for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows - 50 each for Jazz 11, Country 11, Rock & Pop 11, and Half & Double Time 1!

We think you'll love the new RealStyles and MultiStyles added with Xtra Styles PAK 11, which includes new sounds like modern reggaeton, medieval-inspired folk pop, Americana power ballad, speakeasy vocal jazz, R&B and reggae fusion, and more!

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 11 Demos for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows

XTRA STYLES PAKS ARE ON SALE UNTIL MAY 31st! During our Xtra Styles PAK 11 special, all of our Xtra Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for just $29 each (reg. $49)! Looking for more Xtra Styles PAKs? Until May 31st, you can purchase our complete library of all 1,800+ RealStyles with the Xtra Styles PAK 1-11 Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Learn more & order now.

Interested in a specific genre? These can be purchased for $15 each - pick & choose here.

NOTE: Xtra Styles PAKs require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition version 2020 or 2021. (Xtra Styles PAK 11 requires the 2021 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition.) Xtra Styles PAKs won't work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Learn more & listen to demos of Xtra Styles PAK 11.

Get To Know the Band-in-a-Box® Song Settings

Want to customize your Band-in-a-Box® song? Head into the Song Settings window to adjust settings for endings, tags, style variations, pushes, rests, chord embellishments, and more!

To access Song Settings in Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows, use Ctrl+N or choose the Edit | Song Form | Settings (for This Song) option.

Looking to mix up the styles playing for each chorus? You can do that!

Want Pedal Bass in your middle chorus? You can do that too!

Hoping to fade the ending to your song? Also an option from within this window!

There are additional Ending options, RealTracks options (including half-time/double-time, 'bluesy' solos, Natural Arrangements, etc.), and more!

Learn more about Band-in-a-Box® Song Settings.

Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows Documentation Today!

Download the latest Update for Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows to access the updated PDF manual and updated help file.

We've also addressed user reported concerns regarding Plugins Options, Drum Kit window MIDI events, the 2 bar lead-in for exported MIDI files, read-only Audio tracks, and more!

The latest update is available for FREE to all Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Windows users.

Learn more and download now.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Portuguese for Windows is Here!

Estamos ocupados e adicionamos 80 novos recursos e uma coleção incrível de novos conteúdos, incluindo 202 RealTracks, novos RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Estudos Instrumentais, Performances de Artistas, Bonus RealDrums "Singles", transcrições de RealDrums, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 10 e mais!

Novas Funções | Pacotes

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Spanish for Windows is Here!

En PG Music tenemos el placer de anunciar la disponibilidad de Band-in-a-Box 2021 en Español. Despues de arduo trabajo hemos agregado, entre otras cosas, 80 funciones nuevas y una gran colección de nuevas incorporaciones y contenido que incluyen 202 RealTracks, nuevos RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Estudios Instrumentales, Interpretaciones de Artistas, RealDrums 'Single' adicionales, transcripciones de RealDrums, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAK 10 ¡y mucho mas!

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