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Lost In Time

looking through some old photographs
you and me
still happy together
takes me back
to when you still loved me

on the beach
watching waves and holding hands
building castles made of sand

i lost track of the dreams
that didn't come true
you kept count of the times
when i disappointed you

in the end
i was crying all of the time
back when you were mine

in my dreams
i'm holding you close
thinking we are still together
whisper soft
you still love me

make believing
that somehow things were fine
back when you were mine

what became of those
two young kids of the beach
tried to make it
but love was somehow out of reach
my heart's still broken
by those things we'll never find
somewhere lost in time

i still mourning
all the dreams we left behind
somewhere lost in time
somewhere lost in time


Instruments
Bass, Electric, ClassicFunkRootFiveAlex Ev 130
Drums, FunkyGroove60s
Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm SoulJazzMike Ev 130
Piano, Acoustic, Rhthm PopUplift Held Ev16 120
Piano, Electric, HeldChords 120
Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Ev 136
Guitar, 12 String Acoustic Fingerpicking Ev 120

Vocals: Synthesizer V, Eleanor Forte (Lite)
Cornet: Kontakt, The Trumpet


Effects Chains
Vocals: TR5 Sunset Sound Studio, GW VoiceCentric
Guitar: EZMix, TR5 Sunset Sound Studio
Drums: Neutron3, TrackSpacer, TR5 Sunset Sound Studio
Piano1: TrackSpacer, ReaEQ, TR5 Sunset Sound Studio
Piano2: EZMix, TR5 Sunset Sound Studio
Bass: Neutron3
12 String Guitar:
Electric Piano: ReEQ, PingPongPan
Cornet: ReaEQ, Raum, BlockFish
Master Buss: Ozone Imager, Lurssen Mastering Console


Blah Blah Blah
This started from the demo _STEPPIN Demo - Steppin' Even Soul Jazz w Piano. Once again I chose a song which didn't have an obvious chorus, and didn't structure the melody in a way that broke into a verse/chorus structure. Ooops. Seems I never learn.

Once I had the chords worked out, I imported the backing track into the Synthesizer V Editor (I finally got around to purchasing it) and worked out an initial melody. Once that was in place, I decided add an instrumental break and a tag. That set up the basic song structure, and determined where the "hook" would go.

The phrase "Somewhere lost in time" fit nicely, so I started with that and worked backwards. I really didn't have a good idea where the song was going to go, so I wrote a bunch of stuff which didn't seem like it was going to fit.

I've set the overly-ambitious goal of a song a week (until I run out of steam). Over a week in, I had nothing more than a bunch of lyrics I didn't like, and not much else to show for it. Eventually just toughed it out and got first verse worked out. Lathe, rinse, repeat.

The entire process of songwriting for me is basically rewriting. A lot of things I was fond of came and went, either because it was to close to what I'd written in a prior song, or the words were hard to understand, or it didn't advance the story, or it didn't rhyme... the standard reasons for re-doing lyrics.

So much rewriting. I'd be in the middle of the mix, hear a line for the zillionth time, and figure out what I really should have written.

The nice thing about a synthetic vocalist is they don't complain when you keep rewriting.

When I finish the process, I'm mostly just happy that I got through another song, and the lingering suspicion that I accidentally wrote someone else's song I'd heard before.

I'd hoped to keep it 100% BiaB (out of laziness) but didn't find any instruments that I thought fit well, so I ended up playing the cornet part on my EWI. I was thinking of putting an alto sax on instead, but the break already had enough of a "Constant Craving" vibe. (Yeah, I know the instrument in that song is an accordion. It's still a reed instrument.)

I didn't add harmonies, mostly because the song didn't seem to call for it. I was going add some Ooohs and Aaaaahs from BiaB, but I couldn't find any that fit the tempo.

Because I had an "extra" week to work on the song, I figured I'd spend time trying to get a better performance. My goal wasn't to convince anyone they were listening to a real person, but remove things that made it obvious they weren't listening to a person.

Fortunately, there are a fair number of Synthesizer V songs on YouTube, with the actual song data being displayed as the song plays. So I've been able to pick up some techniques.

In terms of time spent, most of the time changing lyrics, and then on moving notes around, and then changing on tuning the phonemes. Adjusting the parameters was pretty straight-forward.

Then the mixing. Again, way too many iterations. But this time I actually checked out how it sounded in mono (less good than stereo, of course).


As always, comments of any sort are welcome!

HI David ...

Super impressed! Also, in addition to a Synth Vocal, the BIAB musicians never complain about redos and never demand a raise!

I can't comment on the technical aspects of this, as I have no technical comprehension of such a project. But I can try to imagine the time and effort required to produce something like this. And it all paid off. BTW, Constant Craving is a favorite of mine and Di used to sing it so dang good!

I love this genre and play around with it frequently. And, I as you sometimes do, I often have a title in mind and create the based around that. In a way, it's kind of like writing for spec. You set the parameters and then go about creating within them.

Lyrics are always my weakness. Your lyric here is perfectly fine. It flows with the music and complements it well. You are gifted with the Synth Vocalizer. I can't even begin to imagine that process!

Another super listen. Best to you ...

Alan

David,

Absolutely impressive,

Your command over synthesized vocals shines through.

Melodically this is super interesting. Excellent in fact.

Those vocaloids are getting so much better. And if the genre is correct, they can be an absolute hand in a glove match. This is really close to that standard.

The song has a very smooth and cool groove. I like it.

Only nits I have are at :56 and 1:53 where the note is off on the vox. I image that's a simple fix.

Nice job on this song.

Hi, Alan.

Yes, that's certainly a bonus!


Only sometimes my "client" is a bit too vague about the spec. Once I get enough of the parameters worked out, it's a bit easier.


Thanks! Everything else is pretty easy, which is why instrumentals feel like a cheat. I enjoy making and listening to them, but it feels like I'm an artist who's choosing to draw portraits of people from the waist up, so I can avoid having to draw hands.

Glad you could stop and listen!

Thanks, Trevor!

I appreciate the positive feedback. After working on a song for too long, I lose perspective on how it actually sounds.

I'll see what I can do to bridge that gap a bit more.


Thanks!


Those were actually intentional - there are some "interesting" melodic choices which clash a bit with the harmony. They aren't as harsh after you've listened to them dozens of times, but I'll consider fixing it.

Glad to have the feedback!

Hi dcuny,

Nice work and nice demo of what synthesizer V can do. All songwriters often come back to the same themes but that is not disturbing. In this composition some well-dosed instruments all bring their charm. And the result is pleasant. Well done.

Kindly regard
Derochette
alias JaniJackFlash

Hi David,

Loved that intro! That trumpet sounds great.

I think vocally this has to be the best one you have done yet! Very realistic, just a couple of spots where it sounds off.

Good song, enjoyed!

Well done! The mix is superb and overall a great write!

David,

A nice ear-grabbing opening...a bit of a Herb-Albert-vibe to it.
(Forgive the "sounds like" references) - the rest of the song has a Bacharach-David sound/feel (both high standards - that you easily met). Killer melody.

Great backbone (drums and bass). The overall mix is excellent.

THE best vocaloid I've ever heard. (admittedly, I haven't heard a LOT). I can understand every word without reading lyrics. The vocal inflections are getting might close to "natural".

A solid write.

fj

Hi, Derochette.

James Taylor has said that he's written about 150 songs, but he's really written about 25 songs 10 times. There's nothing wrong with variations on a theme, but I'm just a bit surprised that my repertoire of phrases is so small. Hopefully practice (and rewriting) will help get me out of that rut.

Thanks for commenting! Glad to hear you liked the song.

Hi, Dave.

Thanks! I did a couple attempts using other instruments, and they were meh. Fortunately, I got lucky with the cornet.


Thanks again. Feel free to mention specific elements that are "off". After working with something for a while, the ear sort of becomes inured to elements.


Really, the part I worry about the most. Awesome!

Thanks, Lawrence!

I appreciate you noticing the mix (and the write).

Hi, floyd jane.

I'll take Herb Albert "sounds like" references all day long! I know he's not the best trumpeter in the business, but his "sound" is what's in my head. Even if it was Chuck Findley on most of those Carpenters albums.

I wasn't sure the intro would fit - it's not really related to the rest of the song - but I'm happy with how it turned out.


Flattery will get you everywhere - especially if you mention Bacharach. Do continue.

Speaking of Burt, he's recently release a new short album with David Tashian called Blue Umbrella.


You know I'm always thinking of you when I'm working on those instruments.

I'm happy to hear it gets your stamp of approval.


I've heard a lot, so I'll apply the metaphorical grain of salt.

But it's good to hear that I'm going in the right direction, especially with expression. I tend to lean in a bit too much with the breathiness. I think it will do me good to spend some time listening to real singers and taking notes.

I'm happy to hear it's intelligible! That's always a big goal of mine. The "Pro" version of the editor offers alternate phonemes, but sometimes (fortunately not that often) the singer flubs a particular combination, so it can take a bit of work to get her to sing it right.

As I mentioned elsewhere, if there are specific things about the vocal that stick out as "wrong", that would be good to know. In the end, the performance is still going to be "off". There are some things I just wasn't sure of because I'm not used to working with a voice that can go that high.


Good to hear, especially from you.

Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment!

David,

You are on a roll lately! This sounds really great! You are delivering a super clean sound with everything you produce! Great job placing that horn sound in this! Take care, T

David, I am very impressed with the quality of the vocal. The mix is excellent and the write has some great lines. The arrangement has some really nice changes and the trumpet sounds great. Very nicely done,Tom

Ok, listened again

The two spots that jumped out at me were :56, the way "disappointed" is phrased, and 1:17, "close".

This is an impressive production. Everything fits together quite well. Enjoyed this a lot.

Innocently romantic lyrics, reminds me J-Pop with some 60's flavor.
The melody is again enjoyable pop and the chord progression has nice surprises.
I like the trumpet, creates nicely the nostalgic mood. The bass/drum have enjoyable groove and they are mixed perfectly.
Eleanor sounds better than in your previous songs, or maybe better than in any song I have heard, maybe you have added more little details, but at least the vocal range is very natural now.

Thanks for the backstory, they are always interesting to read.

Janne

Hi, Torrey.

Thanks for the kind words!

It's good to hear the production works on speakers other than my own.

Hi, Tom.

Thanks! Among other things, I appreciate you mentioning the lyrics.

Hi, Dave.

Thanks for having another listen.

Those are both places where the singer "scoops" under the note. It's a normal thing for singers to do, but I agree - Synthesizer V doesn't quite pull it off.

I'll work on those a bit harder in the future!

Hi, Charlie.

Thanks for stopping by to listen and comment!

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the song.

Hi, Janne.

I sort of lucked out with that. It's really nice to have the technology to play things that - on the actual instrument - aren't that easy. Or easy to record.





This is the first song where I've actually "tuned" the vocals, at least in an attempt to get some sort of performance. I'm still learning how it works - both in what Eleanor can and can't do. I've actually gone back and re-worked one of the other songs, but I've got a ways to go before I figure this out.

Thanks for listening!

I'm very impressed on how you got the Synthesizer V sounding so good. Excellent job on that. That Swam trumpet sounded great and the mix was spot on.

Thanks, Mario!


Since you're the only one of the forum that probably cares, I'll mention that I used The Trumpet here, not the SWAM trumpet. (Technically, the cornet. )

I'd been part of the SWAM beta test process, and I was having trouble getting the SWAM brass to play nice with my USB EWI - the initial attack was being triggered incorrectly. They also had a bit too much "synth" flavor to them, and not enough "brass".

However, that won't stop me from getting them in the future. It's just that The Trumpet does such a good job, I can spend my money elsewhere - like the new SWAM solo strings that are coming out at the end of this month.

Thanks for taking the time to stop by!

I'm really impressed by your work. The lyrics are always well written and you vocalist delivered them so well. A fun experience.

David

Lots of praise here and deserved for the way you have the vocalist sounding.

Nicely done and a good strong composition all round.

Peter

Date: 17/03/2021
System: good PC speakers (with sub)
--------------------------------------------------
Song
Overall impression
Nice melody
The robot seems to convey quite a lot of emotion – so there must be something particularly good in the lyric
Well structured song
Mix / Production
Does well to frame the voice
Everything sits well
Instrumentation
Not too keen on the trumpet part
Vocals
It’s an acquired taste – personally I like it – who needs singers anyway?
When it goes wrong it does do dramatically (0:56 / 1:55)
What I really liked
The bass line (although it too seems to lose the plot at 1:55)
What could be improved
Correcting the glitches would make for an even more enjoyable listen

It's really quite amazing what you can do, David. Just like playing a simple 1-4 bassline isn't as easy as one would think, writing a song that doesn't separate into V-CH-BR is very difficult. I really enjoy your approach to writing and for sharing it with us.

"The entire process of songwriting for me is basically rewriting." Oh, so true. "The nice thing about a synthetic vocalist is they don't complain when you keep rewriting. smile" Oh, yes, one of the beauties of BiaB, too. "When I finish the process, I'm mostly just happy that I got through another song, and the lingering suspicion that I accidentally wrote someone else's song I'd heard before." Haha, yes, that happens so often. I try to convince myself that it sounds so familiar because I've listened to it a thousand times already.

Yes, and then the mixing. Really well done. That coronet was and excellent choice; my favorite part.

Thanks for listening and commenting!

Thanks, Peter!

Hi, Marc!

I really like this rating format!


I hope so, anyway!


That's fair - I appreciate your honesty.


I'll fix that eventually. But I need to decide if I'm getting a full SoundCloud account first. I hate swapping songs out when people have been nice enough to comment on SoundCloud as well.


I'll have a listen for that.


See above!

Again, I love this format!

And not very smart, either. Still, it was the hole that I dug, and it worked out better than it should have.

I wish I could say I've learned something about starting with the right song structure, but we the jury's still out on that.


Thanks!

David,

Wow, your are really progressing with the use of synth vocals—I think most casual listeners might have a hard time telling the difference. There are a couple of stray notes here and there, but it’s pretty spot on—and the tone of the voice blends really well with the mix. The song itself is catchy, engaging melody. Keep doing what you are doing. Very impressive stuff.

My very best to you,

Deej

Very cool music.......lots of motion in it!!! Interesting melody and a strong lyric!! The vocaloids are getting pretty good these days. Nice work David!! Take care. Greg

"The entire process of songwriting for me is basically rewriting. A lot of things I was fond of came and went, either because it was to close to what I'd written in a prior song, or the words were hard to understand, or it didn't advance the story, or it didn't rhyme... the standard reasons for re-doing lyrics."

One of those four is not always a good reason to redo a lyric.

Something really classy about those changes, and you rode them well with the melody. Reminds me more of anime music than anything else that comes to mind. "She" sounds perfectly fine to me. I enjoyed the listen.

HiDave,

You surely do a very good thing with these artificial vocals.
I followed the whole discussion on this closely from your earlier song since all the messages for you also ended up in my personal email. Don't know why, but maybe the BiaB-management want me to be informed. I thank them for that!
But before that happened I listened and commented on your song before that and read your trials with these robotic vocals. They are getting better all the time. I looked it up on internet.

I think you work very hard on it to make it hears like a real human! Still you can hear some unnatural actions in the vocals and also an Eastern tongue. I think Marc mentioned some.

But it is improving in time. There comes a moment we can't hear the difference with humans. Then I will create my harmonics this way also. Now I have to do it with Melodyne and my own voice. A hell of a job, but I see progress as well!

About the song: not bad at all, although not (yet) my taste. Still, a very nice melody with a good sounding voice.
Keep up the good work, David!

Hans

Man, that is a huge step up with the vocal. We just looked at one another with a common "wow" when the first line started. I would suggest that folks who regularly listen to music (and weren't privy to these conversations) would not notice that it was a synthesizer. "She" has a quite pleasant "voice," indeed.

Regarding the scoops Janice will scoop up and down ... often on a single syllable word

They are noticeable but you have to focus to pick them up.

We like the lyric and melody a lot and, yeah, pretty good band you called in for the session.

Fun! You did dang good at painting the hands.

J&B

David,

Very pop and catchy!
After listening to your recent series of Synthesizer V works, I've gradually become very familiar to them.
I wanted to use them for my own work a little bit.
They are very attractive.
However, I'm used to Yamaha's Vocaloid, so I'm hesitant to think that I have to learn a different operation method.
I will think about it for a while.
Enjoyed my listen a lot.

Best regards.

Shigeki Adachi