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#64712 - 03/10/10 03:29 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Isolate what measures to re-generate
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RickeG Offline
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In my short experience working with BIAB, I can only think of one item I would like to see; a process where I can highlight the selected range of measures I would like to regenerate. The reason I believe this is something of value is often times as I am composing I will really like a particular part that was generated but not another. As it stands now, I must make the decision to lose the section I do like in order to try and achieve something for the section I don't like.

If I can highlight a range of bars and hit "regenerate" and it only modifies that range it would make the overall project more to what I desire. In the days when I used JAMMER, I was able to do that. Would it be possible to see that in BIAB?

Thanks,
RickeG

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#670363 - 08/27/21 04:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
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Pipeline Offline
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+1 great idea.
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#670365 - 08/27/21 04:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
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Matt Finley Online   content
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There are workarounds, but yes, this is a frequent request. +1

ps Jammer was just MIDI. It was easy and fast to snip and replace in MIDI.
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#670366 - 08/27/21 04:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
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VideoTrack Offline
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Another vote of support:

+1
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#670367 - 08/27/21 04:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: VideoTrack]
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MarioD Online   content
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Another +1
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#670395 - 08/27/21 08:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Online   content
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<< There are workarounds,... >>

Utility Tracks will do this.
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#670411 - 08/28/21 04:51 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 03/07/18
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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+1 for request

-1 for <<workarounds>>

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#670422 - 08/28/21 06:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Online   content
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The Request:

<< In my short experience working with BIAB, I can only think of one item I would like to see; a process where I can highlight the selected range of measures I would like to regenerate.>>

The Process: Using the current feature of BIAB's Utility Tracks.
. Select any Utility Track 1-16
. Select any RealTrack and generate it
. Open the Audio Editor and select the Utility Track to be edited
. Highlight any range of measures (if nothing is highlighted, BIAB generates the whole track the same as a Legacy Track. Otherwise, this feature will regenerate a single beat of a measure if desired. There's no limitation set for a minimum range that can be highlighted.)
. Select the Edit Button and select Generate | Select and generate RealTracks...
. From the RealTrack Picker Window that opens, Select the same RealTrack or choose any RealTrack to generate into only the highlighted region. Click OK and the highlighted region will be regenerated and the remaining RealTrack content will remain intact.

Yes, Utility Tracks can do this requested action.

Highlight the desired range of measures, Open The Edit Menu, select generate and the Utility Track generates just the highlighted region. Not satisfied with the generation, Undo it or just generate it again (undo is not necessary) and repeat until satisfied with a generation.

To substantiate this is a feature versus a workaround, from the BIAB Mixer, use the included shortcut by Rt clicking on the Utility Track and select generate from there.



Edited by Charlie Fogle (08/28/21 06:30 AM)
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#670424 - 08/28/21 06:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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That sounds like a clean, third decade of 21st century approach...
How about just generating and exporting mixes and chopping them in DAW? also a very doable "workaround" smile

----------------------

RickeG, stay focused smile

"I would like to see; a process where I can highlight the selected range of measures I would like to regenerate."

+1

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#670434 - 08/28/21 08:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
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Pipeline Offline
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For a 2010 post by RickeG it fell on deaf ears. There are many gems like this if you take a trip back in time. Here we are 11 years later.

"They would not listen, they did not know how. Perhaps they'll listen now." ?
"They would not listen, they're not listening still. Perhaps they never will." ?
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#670472 - 08/28/21 02:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 03/07/18
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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pipeline,
I am sure (given more recent posts) that this feature was considered, and maybe even in works. It is definitely not a deal breaker to me, but something I would like to have and use. I am not sure what the story was before I started using BIAB, but I do see a lot of progress being made while I was here: 64 Bit, VST, User Interface (minimalistic view), Utility tracks just to name few big ones. Do I want to see a things happen faster - absolutely! But, if similar progress path of last 3-4 years stays on track, I can totally live with that too smile

P.S. I am more worried about those who have less patience, new folks... I believe if more attention was given to ergonomics and ease of use, software would be more inviting / appealing to someone who uses it for the first time. They definitely will not be very happy with workarounds or deep menus. Just my view.

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#670473 - 08/28/21 02:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: Pipeline]
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Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
For a 2010 post by RickeG it fell on deaf ears. There are many gems like this if you take a trip back in time. Here we are 11 years later.

"They would not listen, they did not know how. Perhaps they'll listen now." ?
"They would not listen, they're not listening still. Perhaps they never will." ?


If you're saying PG Music had deaf ears, I somewhat disagree. Partial bar/bar to bar regeneration of RealTracks has been possible just using BIAB and no external software since 2014/15 in PC and Mac versions with the introduction of recording audio, editing audio and the Performance Track. With the introduction of recording audio in BIAB, BIAB functionally became a digital multi track recorder and its Audio Editor was as advanced and complete as the editing firmware included with the top end stand alone digital recorders like the Tascam DP-008, DP-03, Dp-24 and DP-32 units and more comprehensive than their hand held recorders. The same applies to Zoom brand units like their R-8, R-16 and R-24 that I've owned in the past.

As you hear at the 0:22 second mark in the 2015 Mac new Record Audio feature introduction, PG Music states BIAB is an "easy to use multi track recorder." In regard to audio editing, and its inclusion into BIAB, existing multi track recording techniques, limitation 'work arounds' and principles used on hardware devices could also be able to be used in BIAB.

Band-in-a-Box for Mac: Recording Audio

With the introduction in 2021 of Utility Tracks, it's easier and more accessible than every before and there's not many instances that audio editing needs to be exported to a DAW or audio editor like Audacity. The audio Track the Utility Tracks and the Audio Editor is a very robust audio recorder/editor.
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#670475 - 08/28/21 03:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Matt Finley Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#

... I am more worried about those who have less patience, new folks...

This gave me a chuckle. You have changed greatly in the short three years you have been here. Your appreciation of the new features introduced just in that short time is heartening to see. Now imagine what a few of us have seen over three decades. Remember, there was another forum before summer 2000 when this one started fresh. And imagine the suggestions we have made that are often taken now as new. Pipeline’s first post was making that point, though most would not have the context to realize it. Did everyone see that the original post was made in 2010?

There is an effective way to encourage changes and you and some others have found it. A few of us have taken a stronger approach behind the scenes recently that we hope will yield welcome results.

Everyone, ignore Charlie at your peril. He gives well-researched thoughtful responses every time. Sometimes I tune out because they are long or complicated, and then I come to regret not having paid better attention.
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#670480 - 08/28/21 04:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 02/05/15
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Pipeline Offline
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There have been many improvements and features over the last years I will give PG credit for that.
Though there's still remnants of the past when asking for solo/mute buttons in the VST, they were pretty defiant about that and it took a massive fight, now look at the latest DAW Plugin 3.0 New Features, that looks professional, nothing to do with PG one would think, BUT that took a hell of a lot of pushing to get them to lift their game up!
Don't get me started with VST Sync (for EZDrummer etc..), that was a ten year saga.
Play direct from disk instant generate could be another saga or we may be amazed with it being implemented at the end of the year ?
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#670485 - 08/28/21 06:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 03/07/18
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Matt,
I have seen some amazing music software go to drain because they did not modernize in time and lost momentum. That was my initial reaction. The updates above definitely put BIAB on the right path, and changed my views significantly. I guess lucky me to come at the right time smile

While there are a few large items on the wish list that people asked for, I still think much more attention should be given to ergonomics. If something is possible already - make it easily accessible. If something can be combined / condensed, make it so. You guys (Matt, pipeline, Charlie and many other folks here) are too tech oriented compared to me. It is a compliment btw, but which has a weak spot. Software has to look pretty and work intuitively nowadays, enough for a kid to understand it.

I didn't want to go philosophical, but here is a short off topic. We have a seater made by Knoll in early 1970s. Unfortunately original brown vinyl gave up. Local upholstery people gave us ridiculous price to fix it. So... we went to the shop got the fabric last week and my wife with my passive help finished the project in 2 evenings. Now it looks inviting smile Cat loves it. The point I am trying to make is, PG crew do not need some fancy designer to tune up BIAB, just takes a will and some elbow grease.


Charlie is one of most knowledgeable people here on BIAB guts, hands down. But Charlie, I think you are underestimating the patience and expectations of new users. BIAB is a treasure chest, but people will ignore it because of a length and learning curve it will take to go from A->B Yes, BIAB can be used very professionally, but many users are hobbyists, just like me. Time is very limited for most to deeply explore the program to use features that are expected to work right out of the box from a Band In a Box. That is why I am not a fan of workarounds, especially in niche software.

P.S. Not trying to be negative, just constructive.


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#670491 - 08/28/21 07:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 02/05/15
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Pipeline Offline
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Like some more of your VST designs for the Biab GUI, they should pay you to come up with some prototypes.

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#670495 - 08/28/21 08:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 03/07/18
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Pipeline,
ha ha smile

Well... Complete user editable skins could be something to consider in the future.

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#670502 - 08/29/21 12:28 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 06/25/12
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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I agree 100% with Rustyspoon!

+1 for request

-1 for <<workarounds>>

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#670503 - 08/29/21 12:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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I will repeat what I have said in the past...users like Charlie and Pipeline are an amazing resource for PGM and this forum. They clearly understand this software quite deeply.

I, on the other hand, do NOT understand it deeply nor do I wish to! I simply want to use it to produce cool tracks and then get out of it as quickly as possible and into something modern like my DAW.

Work-arounds like the one Charlie presented are welcome and useful but when they require more steps and depth of knowledge than simply saving 5 versions of my song and comping in the DAW then I will ALWAYS take the easier route using the DAW.

The original request, over 10 years ago, was spot on then and is still spot on today. This is exactly how the software should work. Just select bars and click Regen Bars. Plain and simple and extremely useful.

------

Sidebar: Reason #20 why I don't like multi-step work-arounds in BIAB. It is because I almost always ending up hitting a brick wall. Sometimes it is because I goofed up a complex process but sometimes it is because BIAB goofs up. Either way, it severely interrupts the creative process in an unacceptable way.

When I was a young fella I owned a car built by Morris Garages, an MG! I owned a full set of maintenance and repair manuals and learned to fine tune its dual carbs, repair its brakes, pretty much anything it needed (because I couldn't afford to pay someone else, I had time on my hands and I loved to tinker!) Fast forward MANY years and my new car needs minimal maintenance and absolutely no work-arounds to keep it running! I wish BIAB was less like my old MG and more like a modern car!

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#670544 - 08/29/21 08:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Isolate what measures to re-generate [Re: RickeG]
Registered: 04/07/13
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Charlie Fogle Online   content
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<< The original request, over 10 years ago, was spot on then and is still spot on today. This is exactly how the software should work. Just select bars and click Regen Bars. Plain and simple and extremely useful. >>

You are absolutely correct. And, this is exactly how BIAB works today, Just select bars and click regenerate bars. Plain and simple and extremely useful.

Here's a link to the original PG Music introduction video for Utility Tracks from Dec 5, 2020 that demonstrates building a solo exclusively within the BIAB program and using a single Utility Track. This introduction video is only the very tip of an iceberg of benefits, features, editing techniques that elevate the quality and complexity of RealTracks whether they remain in a BIAB project or they're exported to a DAW for further processing.

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 for Windows® Build 804: Generate RealTracks on Utility Tracks!
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