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#650278 - 04/06/21 04:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] 2 unsolved items
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1482
Loc: UK
Jazzman Offline
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Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1482
Loc: UK

There are two outstanding problems that were not present in 2020 -

1. in the mixer panel the TONE TAB is missing but the number boxes are still there -

2. In the mixer panel when I try to change an instrument it just flips back to the
previous instrument on tune start

jazzman
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#650282 - 04/06/21 04:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: Jazzman]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 17107
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 17107
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Hi,

TONE
If you set the mixer to a floating mixer and then drag the left edge to expand its view, the Tone region will appear. When the mixer is small, the right-most input box allows entry of tone values but the name "Tone" in not above the column (it's too narrow).

INSTRUMENT
I'm guessing that you're referring to MIDI.

Have you updated to the latest patch? I know that "working with MIDI" has undergone a few modifications in some of the updates.

Is it possible that you are using a MIDI file that has the patch set?

Regards,
Noel


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#650293 - 04/06/21 07:00 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1482
Loc: UK
Jazzman Offline
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Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1482
Loc: UK

Hi Noel

Thanks for your welcome reply and suggestions

My real concern is that these are both missing from last year and before

I am using the latest posted patch of 827 although I am aware that patch 829 is being worked on

Yes it is a midi file melody instrument I am trying to change

I don't honestly see why I should go throough extra TONE actions when it has always been there before, surely it is easy to solve by adjusting the other tabs

You must forgive me Noel for getting lazy in my old age but they both worked when I was a little younger -like last year

jazzman
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Windows 10 64
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#650302 - 04/06/21 08:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: Jazzman]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 21653
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Online   content
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Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I agree, the behavior changed in version 2021 for the Tone column header, which as I’ve posted before in Tips & Tricks, was disguised enough as it was. Many users may not know that widening the mixer will change the tone column from a number to a more user-friendly slider.

Jazzman is also correct about how to make this better. When a window (in Windows!) is resized smaller, I would like to see each column width reduced (volume, pan) instead of robbing the space just from Tone. Even if the column headings shrank to one or two characters, that would be preferable to one of them disappearing.
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#650323 - 04/06/21 10:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: Jazzman]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 17107
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 17107
Loc: Australia
It's not just the "Tone" name that disappears. If one drags the left edge of the mixture until it becomes "miniature mode", the heading for each of the columns disappear from right to left.

The boxes for entering values never disappear, though.

If one positions the mouse cursor over an entry box, holds the mouse cursor down and then drags the mouse up or down, the values can be added very easily.

In the "miniature mode" image below, boxes from left to right are: Volume, Pan, Reverb, Tone (this never changes). I've highlighted the Tone entry boxes on the image.


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#650455 - 04/07/21 05:04 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: Jazzman]
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1826
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
MountainSide Offline
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1826
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
Jazzman, as Noel suggested, I'm assuming what you're talking about is higher bank MIDI patch changes on the Thru track when using an external synth module and a .PAT patch map file.

In previous years versions of BIAB, you could change MIDI patches on the Thru track, replay the song from the beginning and the song would play with the new patch as long as you didn't do a "Save" or "Save As". You could do this over and over again auditioning new patches every time you restarted the song. If you did do a "Save / Save As", the song would then be saved with that new patch and the song would use that patch from then on.

This all changed in 2021 for reasons unknown to me. Now, it seems that a song is locked into whatever MIDI patch that is used on the Thru track when the song is first saved. Any change of that patch on the Thru track will be ignored when the song is replayed even if you use the "File...save special...save song with patches and harmonies" pull-down.

For me, this is the most frustrating thing about BIAB 2021. I can't start a song with a new MID patch on the Thru track, it always reverts to the old patch every time the song is replayed. Forget about auditioning sounds. This has required a major change in my workflow.

This behavior does makes some sense though...frustrating as it is! When you play the song from the beginning, the programs pulls in all of the previously saved parameters...Realtracks, styles, volume setting, reverb etc...including the MIDI patch that was saved on the Thru track when the song was first saved.

After weeks of frustration with this, multiple 2021 version updates later and after posting several postings about this on the beta tester forum...I think have found a way around this behavior.

1. Open a song that you have previously saved that has a higher bank Thru track patch assigned to it

2. In the upper left hand corner of BIAB, click on "File...Save Special...Save Song with Patches and Harmonies". This will open a pull down box called "Assign Instruments and Harmonies to the Song".

3. Make sure the Thru track is checked "on" on the left side

4. Here's, the secret: click on the right side of the pulldown for the Thru track and regardless of what it says select " 0 No Patch change". This will result in the mixer on the right of BIAB immediately showing <Instrument 0 No Patch change> on the Thru track.

5. You can either save the song now with these new settings or audition new higher bank patch with each new play.

6. Once you make this Step 4 change, you can freely audition new Thru track changes midway through a song or from the beginning with each new play.

7. Once you find what you like, again save the song with a new or the same name

8. Now when you pull up the song again, even days later, you will still be able to freely audition new higher bank Thru track patches and play the song from the beginning with the new patch.

Long winded yes, don't know why this works, but it does. I hope that might help you too.

Jeff
_________________________
Win10, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2021, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive Touch, Kontakt 5.8, SampleTank 4.13

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#650460 - 04/07/21 05:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: Jazzman]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 17107
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 17107
Loc: Australia
Thanks for typing such a detailed reply, Jeff.

I picked up a few things as I read through it! Much appreciated.

Noel
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#650493 - 04/07/21 10:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: MountainSide]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7099
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7099
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: MountainSide
Jazzman, as Noel suggested, I'm assuming what you're talking about is higher bank MIDI patch changes on the Thru track when using an external synth module and a .PAT patch map file.

In previous years versions of BIAB, you could change MIDI patches on the Thru track, replay the song from the beginning and the song would play with the new patch as long as you didn't do a "Save" or "Save As". You could do this over and over again auditioning new patches every time you restarted the song. If you did do a "Save / Save As", the song would then be saved with that new patch and the song would use that patch from then on.

This all changed in 2021 for reasons unknown to me. Now, it seems that a song is locked into whatever MIDI patch that is used on the Thru track when the song is first saved. Any change of that patch on the Thru track will be ignored when the song is replayed even if you use the "File...save special...save song with patches and harmonies" pull-down.

For me, this is the most frustrating thing about BIAB 2021. I can't start a song with a new MID patch on the Thru track, it always reverts to the old patch every time the song is replayed. Forget about auditioning sounds. This has required a major change in my workflow.

This behavior does makes some sense though...frustrating as it is! When you play the song from the beginning, the programs pulls in all of the previously saved parameters...Realtracks, styles, volume setting, reverb etc...including the MIDI patch that was saved on the Thru track when the song was first saved.

After weeks of frustration with this, multiple 2021 version updates later and after posting several postings about this on the beta tester forum...I think have found a way around this behavior.

1. Open a song that you have previously saved that has a higher bank Thru track patch assigned to it

2. In the upper left hand corner of BIAB, click on "File...Save Special...Save Song with Patches and Harmonies". This will open a pull down box called "Assign Instruments and Harmonies to the Song".

3. Make sure the Thru track is checked "on" on the left side

4. Here's, the secret: click on the right side of the pulldown for the Thru track and regardless of what it says select " 0 No Patch change". This will result in the mixer on the right of BIAB immediately showing <Instrument 0 No Patch change> on the Thru track.

5. You can either save the song now with these new settings or audition new higher bank patch with each new play.

6. Once you make this Step 4 change, you can freely audition new Thru track changes midway through a song or from the beginning with each new play.

7. Once you find what you like, again save the song with a new or the same name

8. Now when you pull up the song again, even days later, you will still be able to freely audition new higher bank Thru track patches and play the song from the beginning with the new patch.

Long winded yes, don't know why this works, but it does. I hope that might help you too.

Jeff


Jeff, Please post these 8 steps in Tips & Tricks. May I suggest naming the post: "Testing MIDI Instrument Patches On THRU". Thanks in advance.
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#650600 - 04/08/21 03:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: MountainSide]
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1482
Loc: UK
Jazzman Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1482
Loc: UK
Hi Jeff

Thanks for your detailed comments and yes I can make it happen the long way around but in 2020 it worked as it should

In trying to do what I did last year I have not connected to a DAW or higher bank

Just plain and simple using the midi BB melody instrument area - vibes to say Four Freshmen but doing this in the Mixer window with 2021 does not work as it did in 2020 because it just keeps flipping back to the previous selection on pressing play, even though I had made a prior save

The TONE number boxes are there but I knew that from using it on Matt Finley's excellent advice a year or so ago. Someone new to the program in 2021 would miss this useful function

I have solved the problem for now (until this is resolved) by reverting to 2020 and all is working fine

Thanks for your suggestions



Edited by Jazzman (04/08/21 03:47 AM)
_________________________
BIAB - RealBand - 2021
Windows 10 64
Zoo computer with 7i processor- SSD 1tb

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#650620 - 04/08/21 06:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: 2 unsolved items [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1826
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
MountainSide Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1826
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
Jim, I've posted these steps in the tips section. Thanks for the suggestion, hope it might help others.

Jeff
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