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#660510 - 06/15/21 12:47 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1554
Loc: Hong Kong
lambada Offline
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Posts: 1554
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My guess is match BIAB in Audio properties to your audio card or change the settings on the Audio card. It should be either 41.? or 48 from memory, but they need to match.
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#660568 - 06/15/21 08:43 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 08/20/11
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Jim Fogle Offline
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If your computer recently installed a Windows update, Windows likely discretely changed the Windows Audio Control Center sampling rate to 48Khz while the Band-in-a-Box audio sampling rate remained at 44.1Khz. There are at least two ways to verify the settings. Here's one.

One way to verify audio settings (See screen shot):
1) Ctrl+E opens BiaB Preferences
2) Select Audio button to open BiaB audio settings
3) Select Audio Drivers button to open the Windows Audio Drivers device audio settings. (Note this window is device specific so your window will look different from mine).
4) Compare audio settings.


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#660621 - 06/15/21 06:19 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Registered: 04/07/21
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Loc: Wichita KS USA
Thank you so much, guys!!

Lambada, I actually have "44.1 sample rate" written on a post it note on my laptop... but I couldn't remember where to set it. **sheepish smile**

Yes, Jim, Windows DID behave badly this weekend--I went to wash the dishes and it sneaked in an update while I was distracted. Came back to shut down programs and files. **eyeroll** Honestly, this is one reason I prefer Windows 7: they don't update it anymore. But anyhow, thank you so much for the instructions. I'll fix it tonight.
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#660838 - 06/17/21 04:25 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Loc: Wichita KS USA
**headdesk** The audio input buttons are grayed out and won't allow me to make changes to which microphone is the default and what sample rate it uses. I'm stuck with RealTek microphone array and 48 Hz.

I'm not going to record into BIAB anyway--I bring my audio in externally and my MIDIs come in from MuseScore--so I'm hoping very much this won't affect the way BIAB works for me. It's already such a rollercoaster, working one day and not the next, and I never know what I've done wrong. Just all of a sudden something works after I've tried it half a dozen different times, and who knows what I did differently, or if it was even something I did that day; could easily have been something I did the night before and didn't even notice.

New question. How do I equalize my MIDIs?

I've been reading about EQ and it seems that's what guitar pedals do, so I had thought to try it out and see if I can make the guitar part sound more realistic, and maybe fix the boomy bass and the tinny violins---BUT the only place I know to get it is in the Audio Edit Window and of course the MIDI tracks are empty in that window... yes, of course they most logically are, and I don't know why I hoped it would be different. **sheepish look** There has to be a way to do this, but I can't find it.

I've re-read the chapter on MIDI in the manual and now I know where to find things like slides and pitch bends, so that's a step forward. It's still mostly Greek to me but I found a thread on changing MIDI volume so now I understand about CC7 and CC11 as well. But it seems to me that EQ is something I might change in RB rather than BIAB... maybe I just don't know where to look.
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#660841 - 06/17/21 05:13 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16673
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Online   content
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Cathie, to set your Realtek:
1-click on Realtek HD Audio Manager
2-click on sound manager
3-click on line in
4-select 16 bits 44100Hz (CD quanity) from the drop down menu

MIDI will not show up as audio. You would have to convert the MIDI track to an audio track as the effects only work on audio AFAIK. Since I do not work that way in BiaB a BiaB expert will have to help you on this one.


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#660918 - 06/18/21 09:48 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 04/07/21
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Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
Cathie, to set your Realtek:
1-click on Realtek HD Audio Manager
2-click on sound manager

Thank you Mario.

I don't have the manager... those windows never come up for me, and when I use the search the computer finds no results--which is a LITLLE weird, considering all the realtek files from the internal speakers should have populated. Have I mentioned lately that I am less than fond of Windows 10?? ....okay, I managed to fix the search function enough to find one folder but again, no manager. Maybe this is something I have to download separately?
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#660921 - 06/18/21 10:15 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1183
justanoldmuso Offline
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Posts: 1183
Cathie.
re your ZOOM RECORDER
i'm not sure ; but it looks like your zoom recorder has a
usb connector for connection to a pc so it can be used as a recording / playback 2x2 audio interface.
have you ever connected your zoom to the pc via usb ?
is this your zoom recorder ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFqo4gOUtgQ

if it IS your zoom in above vid ; the vid shows how to set it to record/playback from pc. which means it might work in realband recording vocals. you can do tons of voc traks in realband. (and also bb)

if its NOT your zoom please post the precise model # of your zoom and confirm that it has a usb port on it.
then the rest of us can look up its features on the zoom
web site.

best oldmuso
ps if zoom dont work i recommend (per upthread) you try a proper audio usb interface.
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#660923 - 06/18/21 10:24 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16673
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Online   content
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Cathie try alt-control-delete all at once to get to the task manager.
In task manager click on startup.
Look for Realtek HD Audio Manager.
Is it there?
If yes right click on it and the click on enable.

If it is not there click on search (the one just right of the start button)
Type control panel
Do you see the Realtek HD Audio Manager there?
If yes adjust your settings there.

If it is not there google Realtek HD Audio Manager and download and install it.
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware

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#660924 - 06/18/21 10:34 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: justanoldmuso]
Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Loc: Wichita KS USA
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
Cathie.
re your ZOOM RECORDER
i'm not sure ; but it looks like your zoom recorder has a usb connector for connection to a pc so it can be used as a recording / playback 2x2 audio interface. have you ever connected your zoom to the pc via usb ? is this your zoom recorder ?

That is amazing!!! Yes, I have an old H1 and I record into it, then connect by USB cord to get the recordings onto my computer. Never had any idea I could record directly into RB using the H1. Thank you!
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#660927 - 06/18/21 10:53 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 04/07/21
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Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Loc: Wichita KS USA
Originally Posted By: MarioD
If it is not there google Realtek HD Audio Manager and download and install it.


We're posting at the same time. Nope, it isn't there. Thanks for telling me how to find it.
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#660929 - 06/18/21 11:11 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1183
justanoldmuso Offline
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Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 1183
Cathie.
re recording into pc useing zoom.
this is new info from you i was not aware of.
but dont get too excited. how old is your zoom ?
you might need to install updates for it on your pc if its old and there are zoom driver updates you havent installed.
it depends if zoom is copacetic with pg software products.
lets take ONE STEP AT A TIME. cos the devils in the zoom installation details.

1. what software are you recording into useing zoom ?
audacity ? it works good ?
2. have you installed the latest zoom drivers/set up from zoom site for your zoom ?
contact zoom support and ask them if there is a proper asio driver for your pc ; and also ask if there is a firmware update just in case.
3. open realband and see if a zoom driver is listed as available in realband audio driver settings.
if you DO. tell us what it says for input and output under asio. or if its a generic usb driver.

best
oldmuso


Edited by justanoldmuso (06/18/21 11:14 AM)
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#661091 - 06/19/21 05:29 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Loc: Wichita KS USA
LOL, Mr. Muso, you give me WAY too much credit!!! I record into the H1 itself, and then drop the file onto my dektop and edit it in audacity to get rid of noise, increase the volume, and cut it down to length. That is the sum total of my technical abilities. Until you posted that video, I didn't even know I could plug it into the computer for recording--thought it was only to transfer the file--and I've never done anything more in audacity, either.

The recorder was bought in 2012, I think, and I received it used in 2014. It's not been updated in any way, and as a matter of fact every time I plug it in, my computer tells me it's set up incorrectly and asks if I want to fix it. I used to say yes and let the old computer do its thing, but it never fixed anything and I could still record and transfer files, so eventually i just started ignoring the warning. It might be that this isn't the right solution for me as far as audio interfaces go, because I no longer get the same quality recordings from it and was thinking it needs replaced anyway. I could see if the drivers will update--maybe it'll record better, if nothing else.

Have to say I'm having a hard time concentrating right now; my attention is totally wrapped up in my song playing in BIAB. I made a temporary piano MIDI of the melody and put it in so I can have a guide while I'm singing, and I can't stop bouncing in my chair, lol... found much better piano and violin patches last night, and it sounds like a real song to me now! **huge grin** But I'm sorry to say that even though it's all RT and MIDI, it still renders to MP3 with a lot of static and that just makes no sense to me since there is no static at all in BIAB. I think it just has to be my computer. Tried saving it as a MIDI but that won't play in the media player--no sound at all. Just another thing I'm woefully technically deficient in, lol... couldn't fix the RealTek files either, so I'm thinking this means I honestly do need some hands-on IT help for this computer, and I'll have to add that into the Someday Budget. Maybe next month.

Guess I'm only a few steps up this very steep learning curve. But hey, I didn't fall down this time! And I can play the .SGU which has me dancing in my chair...I'm dying every time the bass walks down to the next part, and I finally found a generation where the synth pad is playing held chords. Managed to go back and forth between my bass part and the bass in the style and between the RD and the loop. The piano, violins, synth pad, and guitar all come in and out. Sounds real to me now! It needs better mixing and I have to go back to the manual and reread the MIDI chapter to find out how to edit the sound. Since I'm using a piano AND two basses on the choruses and coda, I need to at least figure out how to get some of that bottom boominess toned down in the MIDI bass. Have to enter the lyrics now, too. But on the whole I'm pretty happy with it!!

Although I do confess my fear that after all this months'-long build-up, y'all are gonna think the song's an anti-climax and maybe not worth listening to. But it's been a terrific learning experience, and I honestly love it. **sheepish smile**
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#661098 - 06/19/21 07:31 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Loc: Wichita KS USA
Well I exported it again just to see if I could fix the noise. Did some reading and tried out a notch filter--reduced it by about half, but didn't get rid of it. I hear it much worse through the front of my speakers or through the mixing headphones. Gryph doesn't hear it at all... but the sound is just not right. The piano accompaniment seems to be worst culprit but also the sheer number of instruments playing makes a difference; when it's only bass and guitar there's no static at all, when the whole band kicks in for the chorus it's very noticeable.

I read oldmuso's thread about golden nuggets, and clicked the link to the big DAW... and there it was right in the description, "because the last thing you want to hear is your PC!" Oy.

So guys, here are my new questions.
1. if I throw this MP3 into a DAW, is there some way to remove the noise?
2. do you think the existing sound card created the noise?
3. if I get an audio interface, can I render an MP3 or WAV without noise?
4. this is totally counterintuitive to me, but could the rendering process be picking up the room fan? I wouldn't think an internal rendering would even be able to pick up anything in the room, but I have no idea if the microphone array is completely disabled even though BIAB says it is. But if it can't, could the fan blowing directly on me be vibrating my computer enough to interfere with rendering?

Honestly, I would have thought data and programming wouldn't be affected by external things like a fan, but I know enough to know that I really know very little about how things work!
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#661116 - 06/20/21 05:40 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16673
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Online   content
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Registered: 12/27/03
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I'll try to answer some of your questions but it is hard to determine where the noise is coming from if we can't hear it. Maybe you could post a song with the noise so we can try to determine where it is coming from. Also putting you system's data in your byline would help us.

1- the free Audacity and its plug-ins can do many things to a wav or MP3 including taking out noise. https://www.audacityteam.org/

2-Maybe but we would have to hear it. However it shouldn't be adding noise.

3-yes If the noise is not generated by your computer.

4-If the mic and fan are both on when you are recording then that could cause noise.

Have you tried to record anything other then BiaB? Try recording a youtube audio. Does it have noise? Doing this may determine where the noise is being generated, either by your computer and sound card or your recording.

A couple of last thoughts do you have a cell phone that is on near your computer or keyboards? We have had problems here with musicians having a live phone generating noise while recording and listening. Is your computer very close to your modem or router? That can generate noise also.

I hope this helps and good luck.
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64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware

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#661118 - 06/20/21 05:59 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6921
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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<< 1. if I throw this MP3 into a DAW, is there some way to remove the noise? >>

It's possible but that's a temporary fix and not the solution to your issue. It's likely to only reduce or mask the noise rather than remove it. The solution is to stop the noise at the source.

<< 2. do you think the existing sound card created the noise? >>

No. It could be in the sound source chain, Mic, Cable or sound card's physical connection. The symptoms detailed throughout this thread make me think the noise is externally generated and being picked up along the way into the PC.

<< 3. if I get an audio interface, can I render an MP3 or WAV without noise? >>

It's possible but you'll have to spend the money to find out. Since you know you are currently recording your audio in an external device not connected to your PC, it's a clear indication your PC system including the soundcard is how the noise is getting into your recordings.

It's possible the noise is being 'captured' by the soundcard but just as likely it's some other on-board system or component of your PC. No guarentee an audio interface will 'solve' the problem. It's also possible one brand of audio interface works and the noise is gone while if you choose another brand, it doesn't.

<< 4. this is totally counterintuitive to me, but could the rendering process be picking up the room fan? >>
Yes. It could be your house wiring, plug, a light switch, a power strip, florescent lighting, led lighting, AC, fridge, stove/range, power supplies or a host of other items. It could also be coming from the PC itself...


You can test the audio interface theory with your Zoom H1. Download and install the drivers, connect the USB and set the device as your recording and playback selection, make a test recording and you'll have your answer.
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#661119 - 06/20/21 06:14 AM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6921
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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I have a few questions Cathie.


1. No noise when you import the audio you recorded on your Zoom H1 to edit the file in Audacity?

2. No noise when you import the audio track into BIAB and work on your song?

3. Is the noise limited to just the audio track or to all of the rendered BIAB tracks.
(To test for isolating the tracks and determine this, export each track as a WAV individually rather than a mixed stereo render)

4. My understanding is you don't hear any noise until you render your song in BIAB. Is this correct?

EDIT:

5. Is there ever any noise when you export a song in Audacity?

6. Is there ever any noise when you export a song or WAV file, MP3 from BIAB that you've Not added a externally recorded audio file to?
In other words, can you export songs or files from BIAB without them having noise added when you render?



Edited by Charlie Fogle (06/20/21 06:30 AM)
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#661187 - 06/20/21 06:54 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Hi guys, thank you so much.

There is zero audio. This is only BIAB RT plus MIDI notation exported from MuseScore (and given BIAB patches). I didn't record anything at all--I just rendered an MP3 right out of BIAB.

I love Audacity, Mario, but it was a no-go. You have to be able to isolate the noise, and this is embedded in the song. I did use the notch filter and it took it down by about half. Dunno if I can repeat that without getting artifacts, though.

The router is around the corner about ten feet away. The cell phone and a small LED lamp are two feet to my right, as are my external (bluetooth) speakers. The plant lights are six feet to my left, behind me. The fan is five feet in front of me. Gizmo (the keyboard) is six feet to my left in front of me.

I turned off the fan and unplugged Gizmo and the plant lights, rendered the MP3 again---noise. So I grabbed an early copy of the song, deleted all the MIDI tracks from it, and rendered only the RT style as an MP3. Clean as a whistle, UNTIL the piano started playing--noise!!

I'm still just baffled. Why on earth do the pianos, both RT and MIDI patch, render with noise?! Nothing else does, not even the synth pad (Pop Modern Groove). I'm not skilled enough to be able to tell what the heck is going on.

Hi, Charlie. When I do record a song with the Zoom H1, I routinely take it to Audacity and remove all the noise. And when I export it as MP3, no noise. When I took an MP3 to BIAB, it played clean--no noise--but then it rendered horribly, tons of noise. But since this current rendering is instrumental only with no imported audio, I don't know whether the noise from the older render (trashed! heck no, couldn't save it, didn't keep it) was just the pianos or was the audio as well.

The more instruments are playing at once, the more noise the pianos make. Don't know if that means there's more than one problem or not. The more I try to track this down, the more complicated it seems to get! And yes, y'all understand correctly, I hear no noise at all until I render the song in BIAB.

There's never any noise when I export an MP3 from Audacity. Just tried it again, to be sure--no noise.

So I tried saving the SGU as a MIDI. Isn't that a trip? No style came with it at all!! And it rendered every single patch as "piano." I could have done that myself in MuseScore, and I'd have had drums. BUT it rendered pretty clean, except for a ringing on a high pitch that corresponds with where I hear the noise in the MP3 rendering. That ringing doesn't show up in the rendered MP3, but then maybe it's buried in the noise--or maybe it becomes the noise.

Gotta say this song makes for an interesting piano piece, even without the style. I'd imagine it needs six hands, lol.

How do I attach a file so y'all can hear it? Does it have to be a link?

Thank you for helping me with this puzzle. You keep me from throwing my hands up in despair and just walking away.
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#661188 - 06/20/21 07:18 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 6921
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
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Sorry I keep asking questions but I'm on a different track from everyone else. There may be a quick, easy and no cost solution to your issue as soon as I know where the noise is coming from first.

So, with that in mind,

<< Hi, Charlie. When I do record a song with the Zoom H1, I routinely take it to Audacity and remove all the noise.>>
Are you saying the exact same noise that you hear when a song renders in BIAB is also in a recording you do in the H1?
or
Is the noise you're trying to remove with Audacity after a recording on the H1, room background noise picked up by the H1 microphone during recording?

Lastly,

If you select a Style in BIAB, input some chords or load a style demo, play the 'song', does the song play clearly or is there noise?
If it plays clearly, but you render it to a WAV or MP3, that's when noise is inserted into the rendered version that is output?

Do the pianos that are acting up with both MIDI and RT's act up only with the current Style you've chosen or is every piano, MIDI and RT rendering with noise?

What happens if you Rt click on a piano track and select Track Actions\Save as a WAV file?

What I'm hoping for is that BIAB with no type of input other than the instruments of a Style plays clearly and renders clearly.

If that's the case, I may be able to have you recording a clear song tonight... wink



Edited by Charlie Fogle (06/20/21 07:27 PM)
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#661192 - 06/20/21 08:23 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Charlie Fogle]
Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
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Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Sorry I keep asking questions but I'm on a different track from everyone else. There may be a quick, easy and no cost solution to your issue as soon as I know where the noise is coming from first.

Believe me, I appreciate your time and trouble!!!
Originally Posted By: Charlie
Are you saying the exact same noise that you hear when a song renders in BIAB is also in a recording you do in the H1?
or
Is the noise you're trying to remove with Audacity after a recording on the H1, room background noise picked up by the H1 microphone during recording?

The noise I remove from my own recordings is ambient room noise plus my breathing and whatever fans might be running in my keyboard. The noise when I render an MP3 or WAV from BIAB is static, or a high-pitched ringing--but the static sounds like really loud room noise, way louder than I get when I'm recording (and I'm just in my dining room, nothing fancy, not even a pop filter on the recorder).
Originally Posted By: Charlie
Lastly,

If you select a Style in BIAB, input some chords or load a style demo, play the 'song', does the song play clearly or is there noise?

Clear as a bell.
Originally Posted By: Charlie
If it plays clearly, but you render it to a WAV or MP3, that's when noise is inserted into the rendered version that is output?

Yes.
Originally Posted By: Charlie
Do the pianos that are acting up with both MIDI and RT's act up only with the current Style you've chosen or is every piano, MIDI and RT rendering with noise?

Oh dear, I haven't tested that yet.
Originally Posted By: Charlie
What happens if you Rt click on a piano track and select Track Actions\Save as a WAV file?

My speakers shut off. Honest, my doggoned speakers shut off! **eyeroll** Took me a while to figure that out. Now the track is playing in the media player, and there is a small bit of noise, "fuzzy" like the distortion on an electric guitar if it were turned way low (the effect, not the guitar). This is 2461, Acoustic Piano, and it's a RT. This is the cleanest piano sound I;ve gotten so far in a rendering.
Originally Posted By: Charlie
What I'm hoping for is that BIAB with no type of input other than the instruments of a Style plays clearly and renders clearly.

If that's the case, I may be able to have you recording a clear song tonight... wink

Oh, how I wish!! But no, when I removed all the MIDI tracks from an earlier version of my song and rendered just the style as an MP3, it got a lot of staticky noise once this same piano started playing.
_________________________
Love is always worth the risk.

HP laptop; Windows 10 Home 64 bit; core i5; 2.40 Ghz; 8 GB RAM; 256 GB hard drive; BIAB 2021 Build 835.

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#661194 - 06/20/21 08:45 PM [Songwriting] Re: The Nuts and Bolts of It All: How do I....? [Re: Cathie]
Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
Cathie Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/07/21
Posts: 125
Loc: Wichita KS USA
**headdesk** I have a simple blues progression up, switched to =POPPLTS.STY the pop solo piano... static. It's just playing in BIAB, and distorted like a fuzzy guitar would be. Gonna shut BIAB down and restart it....

Okay, much less static this time, but not clean like I remember it. **sigh**

2263 Acoustic Piano is pretty clean, and it saved as a WAV pretty clean. _MPBBP.STY, 80s Medium Pop The style rendered as an MP3 with a low background level of noise, almost clean.

1542, Acoustic Piano, no noise in BIAB. _ALTCAMP.STY Absolutely clean in BIAB, rendered clean as a WAV, style rendered clean as an MP3!!!!

Good grief, could it just be the voice patches?
_________________________
Love is always worth the risk.

HP laptop; Windows 10 Home 64 bit; core i5; 2.40 Ghz; 8 GB RAM; 256 GB hard drive; BIAB 2021 Build 835.

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PG Music News
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