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#663077 - 07/06/21 11:50 AM [Songwriting] Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song?
Registered: 05/19/16
Posts: 190
Loc: Denmark
Peters Garage Offline
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Registered: 05/19/16
Posts: 190
Loc: Denmark
Hi,

I have a composition, where I want to use the Electric Guitar 3364 Sw085 with Electric Guitar 3354 Ev 085.

Is there a way to make these two guitars fit and play along?
I'm playing around with Track offset, by adding -7 (in fact subtracting 7)to the 3364 Sw 085, which improves the timing between the two tracks, but it still sounds rather chaotic.

Is it at all "comes il faut" to use even and swing tracks in the same arrangement?
Searching around with Google didn't make me wiser, so any views on this?
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#663098 - 07/06/21 03:48 PM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Peters Garage]
Registered: 08/21/18
Posts: 1363
Tangmo Offline
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In my experience (limited) Swing and Even feels CAN (but not necessarily DO) work better together the higher the tempo, and worse the lower the tempo. 85 bpm is pretty slow so all those "subdivisions" are very likely to sound sloppy together. My latest mixes Even and Swing based tracks, but it's at 140 BPM.

*Edit* I might should clarify. The the actual tempo of the main style was 70, but it had a pretty fast feel. I doubled the bar duration and the tempo, but it "played" at the same rate of speed, sonically. It was the additional swing tracks that were originally 125 and bumped up to 140.

Much depends on the RT itself, and you can't judge until you hear it. Some Swing feel RT's "swing" harder than others, and vice versa.

I hope somebody else can chime in with advice we both can use.


Edited by Tangmo (07/06/21 04:11 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification
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#663146 - 07/07/21 04:30 AM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Peters Garage]
Registered: 10/31/08
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Noel96 Offline
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Hi Peter,

Swing 16th and Straight 8th will often blend together. This is because the swing is based on triplet 1/16th notes, and a triplet of 1/16th notes occurs in the same time as a single 1/8th note.

Similarly, a Swing 8th will fit with a RT that's based on 1/4 notes.

The two tracks you list are a swing 8 one and a straight 8 one. These won't fit together too well.

How I would overcome this is to create loops based on chords. I'd take a bar of the swing realtrack and in Reaper, I'd use stretch markers to align the swing notes to straight 1/8th note beats. I'd do this for each chord in the song and then use these loops to create a backing. (If the song has 6 chords, then I'd have 6 loops of 1 bar each.)

I can't see an easy solution for you.

Regards,
Noel
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#663161 - 07/07/21 07:07 AM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Noel96]
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David Snyder Offline
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Brilliant Dr. Adams.

smile
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#663238 - 07/07/21 07:06 PM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Noel96]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Noel, That would be a great write up to place in Tips & Tricks.
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#663247 - 07/07/21 09:37 PM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Jim Fogle]
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Sundance Offline
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Originally Posted By: David Snyder

Brilliant Dr. Adams.

smile


Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
Noel, That would be a great write up to place in Tips & Tricks.


+1!

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#663277 - 07/08/21 04:35 AM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 12/06/11
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MountainSide Offline
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Great explanation Noel. Thanks to you, I think I finally understand how Even and Swing relate to 1/8 notes and 1/4 notes. Never looked at it this way before.

Jeff
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#663322 - 07/08/21 09:24 AM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Peters Garage]
Registered: 04/03/09
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Guitarhacker Offline
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Yep... I was going to say that sometimes they do and most often they don't. Noel told you why.


What I would suggest is that you look at the real track info.... find out who the artist is and the tempo range that it's designed to work in.... then look at that particular artist and find a similar tempo range in the same even or swing based on which one the song is actually using.

Often, when you think that only "that one" particular track will work..... chances are, if you search, you'll find something else that actually fits and works better.

This is one reason why, when I work on a live guitar part for example, I always delete the previous one because I know there's something better coming along in the next take or maybe the 12th take.... You just gotta look for it.
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#663359 - 07/08/21 12:40 PM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 05/19/16
Posts: 190
Loc: Denmark
Peters Garage Offline
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Registered: 05/19/16
Posts: 190
Loc: Denmark
Hi Noel

Wauw!

That was an explanation that was quite easy to understand - thank you for your reply

Cheers
Peter


Edited by Peters Garage (07/08/21 12:40 PM)
Edit Reason: Forgot "Hi Noel"
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#667130 - 08/05/21 08:05 AM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Peters Garage]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 620
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 620
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Of course, one can always go old school and play both swing and straight 8. Rockabilly has many examples but this is my favorite as it slips between the two, sometimes with both playing simultaneously. That's James Burton as a teenager on guitar—still alive and making music 65 years later.

Susie Q. Dale Hawkins 1957

Rules? What rules? We don't need no stinking rules!

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#667359 - 08/07/21 12:03 AM [Songwriting] Re: Using Ev and Sw Real Tracks in the same song? [Re: Peters Garage]
Registered: 02/05/15
Posts: 6738
Pipeline Offline
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Originally Posted By: Peters Garage
Hi,

I have a composition, where I want to use the Electric Guitar 3364 Sw085 with Electric Guitar 3354 Ev 085.

Is there a way to make these two guitars fit and play along?
..

Swing Tracks to Even, Even Tracks to Swing


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