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I have not used much yet but the i5 looks like it will do pretty good. It does not boot quite as fast as the i9 but not bad.
I had to make a new win 10 USB install drive. I guess they have changed some stuff in the last few months.
BIAB try out tomorrow.
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 08/14/21 05:19 AM.
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I'm running an i5 chip in my DAW and it works well. Of course, I'm also running XP Pro 32 bit.... sooooo......
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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What generation of i5 chips do you guys have? There's a big difference between the oldest and the newest i5 chips: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i5-750S-vs-Intel-i5-11600KF/1659vs4261Funny enough, I don't own anything with an i5 in it, even though they're very respectable chips. My 3 machines have Xeon, i7, and Core 2 Duo, and the current gen i5's are more powerful than all three combined!
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 08/17/21 08:27 AM.
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Simon.
this new gen of i5's are starting to look very interesting.
what i'm wondering is...is intel going to start dropping the
prices of its powerfull processors in response to apple
doing its own M1 processor design. ?
i hope within a few years now a user wont have to pay a couple of k for a powerfull system in order to get the big
trak/plug in counts some users need.
best
om
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My i5 chip is most likely in the older generation. The machine is easily 12+ years old at this point. I think it was commissioned for duty in 2008. I built it from the specs on a custom DAW building web site. I chose the i5 Intel chip for it's performance specs and price vs the i7 that was also available and not wanting to go with the i3.
It's actually a quad core and can run 64bits if I was to upgrade the OS. But, it's not hindering my process, so I shall use it as is until it dies.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Simon.
this new gen of i5's are starting to look very interesting.
what i'm wondering is...is intel going to start dropping the
prices of its powerfull processors in response to apple
doing its own M1 processor design. ?
i hope within a few years now a user wont have to pay a couple of k for a powerfull system in order to get the big
trak/plug in counts some users need.
best
om The 11th gen i5's are about on par with the M1, with the i5-11600 having roughly the same performance. Of course, the M1 loses about 30% of it's power when emulating x86 putting it on par with a 10th gen i5-10400F, but native ARM apps get the full speed. Keep in mind we're comparing a 15-watt mobile CPU/GPU combo to a 65-watt desktop-class CPU that may or may not have a built-in GPU, and those are some seriously impressive numbers. It's not just Apple's M1 chip that Intel has to worry about - Windows for ARM exists already, particularly with the newer Microsoft Surface. We're already in a golden age of computing really - I mean, the current lowest end i3 that's available for under a hundred bucks vastly outperforms the dual Xeons in my 12-year-old Mac. If my 2009 Mac Pro can handle huge projects with ease, what's stopping a new sub-$500 desktop from doing that? I mean, we all want the most powerful thing out there (I'm currently spec'ing an i9 machine) but how much power do we really need?
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Simon, I am not sorry I built the i9 machine but it really does not buy me much of anything I don't get out of the new i5 I just finished. It's only issue if any is it is a LGA 1151.
Intel Core i9-9900K Desktop Processor 8 Cores up to 5.0GHz Unlocked LGA1151 300 Series 95W (BX806849900K) cost me $330.
Intel Core i5-10600K Desktop Processor 6 Cores up to 4.8 GHz Unlocked LGA1200 (Intel 400 Series Chipset) 125W cost me $214
For those two there is only $115 bucks difference. That was really why I got the i9 processor to begin with. Not much difference in price.
Now, if you are looking at a Intel Core i9-10920X Desktop Processor 12 Cores up to 4.8GHz Unlocked LGA2066 X299 Series 165W, that will cost you close to $700 bucks.
There was a good bit of difference in the ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING motherboard around $400 and the GIGABYTE Z490 AORUS Elite AC (Intel LGA1200/Z490/ATX/2xM.2 Thermal Guard/Realtek ALC1200/SATA 6Gb/s/USB 3.2 Gen 2/Intel 802.11ac/2.5 GbE LAN/RGB Fusion/Gaming Motherboard)at $240
I assume some people need all the horse power they can get. I don't get more than thirty tracks deep into a song and am not having any issue with the i5 or i9.
Heavy duty graphics work could be another issue but I am not involved in that.
I have one gig internet up and down. Some days it is more like 850 but nothing is slowing down on my end. All that speed did not buy me anything the other night downloading some stuff from Toontracks.
I guess what all this means is how much money can anyone really afford or want to spend. I have a brand new car and a 2008 Nissan Titan. Guess which one I drive 99% of the time?...lol
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 08/18/21 06:19 PM.
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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Simon. what i'm wrestling with right now is what is the smart move regarding upgradeing to a new pc. (your comment bout the new i3 has me pondering if refurbs are still the way to go.) for the budget minded musician ? just one example. lets take the scenario, for arguments sake... the musician might run 48 traks , all with 3 plug ins per trak (i know its difficult depending on cpu useage of plug in, so lets say pg or reaps low cpu plugs), and lets assume a desktop running 2 ssd's; one for win 11 and one to record to with 16 gigs ram. question. what processor installed in a under 500 buk pc will do the above, plus.... a. fast boot from cold in a few secs. (like my current never sees the net optimised i5 system.) b. 3 minute song , gives me fastest possible mixdown time. c. run biab, rband and reaps like a bunny rabbit. ie app boots in a couple of secs. new budget i3 ? i5 ? ryzen type cpu ? OR still a refurb ? OR should someone save their pennies, and go "all in " on a threadripper type amd system ? (and eat porridge for a year or two..lol.) eg from a builder that specialises in custom builds for recording studios. ie like some of the big recording studios use ? ie turnkey ? eg purrfect audio or adk or scan or one of the others. (simon...ever looked at dawbench ? interesting testing suite.)>>> https://dawbench.libsyn.com/best oldmuso billy !...nah this is my fav car. when i win the lottery...lol. ITS FUN ! >>> https://www.caterhamcars.com/en/models/the-iconic-range
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/19/21 01:29 AM.
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A phrase mentioned many times on these forums..... "Buy as much as you can comfortably afford." I lucked into a massive discount on that tank of a Dell tower I have that has tons of cores/memory. It still cost $3K from Ebay as it was a refurb. Retail pricing for all that processor and memory power that came with it was $10K. So based on that huge discount, I was willing to part with my $$$. I've had it three years now and it's still running faster than a lot of 'normal' PCs.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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For what its worth, I used to be a 100% Intel man. I've built a number of computers for myself and friends over the years and never even considedered puttting anything other than an Intel CPU in any of them......until my most recent build. AMD has completely eclipsed Intel in almost every way. I looked at the newest generation of Intel CPUs before doing my latest build and it was obvious to me that Intel is no longer taking the lead in invoation and have let AMD leapfrog them and start leading the way. The Ryzen family of AMD CPUs, is the way to go IMHO.
Keith
2024 Audiophile Windows 11 AMD RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,Cakewalk,Raven Mti
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KeithS.
i agree with you. your threadripper system looks superb.
what sound device are you useing with that system ?
please could you post some stats as i'm haveing trouble finding threadripper daw stats ...eg.
1. how long does it take your system to boot from cold start till you see win main screen ?
2. what mixdown saveings in time taken do you see over your previous pc ?
3. in realband action>>test audio performance (yes i know its a crude test) ,,
what trak number is reported versus your previous system ?
any other stats would be also usefull. eg max trak/plug in counts/rough ideas. app load times with big trak/plug in counts. any idea of round trip latency for that system etc etc.
yeah i know some stats are tuff to measure.
has there been measureable differences in biab generation
times versus your previous pc ?
i am sure biab and realband are running like bunny rabbits on that rig.
best/thanks.
oldmuso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/20/21 07:00 AM.
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1. how long does it take your system to boot from cold start till you see win main screen ?
I'll answer this first question then defer the rest for a few weeks. From the time that I push the ON button to getting a windows 10 desktop is in the vicinity of 14 seconds with what will probably be my most common set up although just playing around with various configurations I've gotten as low as 7 second boot times. Main reasons for the rapid boots are the ASROCK motherboard which has a setting that gives it a post time of around 3 seconds. Turning off the fast boot mode on the MB pushes the overall boot time up to around 30 seconds. I'm booting from Western Digital BLACK SN850 NVME Generation 4 2TB M.2 SSD drives which are crazy fast. For now, I'm still using my Focusrite as the primary sound and a Tascam conroller surface although I'm contemplating the purchase of one or two Steven Slate Audio RAVEN MTi2 Multi-Touch Production Consoles if I can deterine that they are compatible with the rest of my system. I'm setting this up as a triple boot system with one drive booting up to a dedicated gaming PC, one for video rendering, and the third for all audio functions. Since I'm having to go through all of my programs and plugins on my old PC so I can deactivate them and transfer them to the new, I've not yet done a lot of audio testing on the new rig, still using the old until I'm sure I can make a relatively smooth transition to the new system. I did some experimenting on the old machine simpling cloning the hard drive and using it in the same machine and it knocked out a number of things on the cloned drive including BIAB, Addictive Drums, Vegas, and Sound Forge all of which seemed to think they were on different computers rather than just cloned versions of the same drive. I'm setting a deadline for myself of labor day to have the audio stuff transfered so I'll try to have some more answers for you then on how it is performing.
Keith
2024 Audiophile Windows 11 AMD RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,Cakewalk,Raven Mti
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Simon, I am not sorry I built the i9 machine but it really does not buy me much of anything I don't get out of the new i5 I just finished. It's only issue if any is it is a LGA 1151.
Intel Core i9-9900K Desktop Processor 8 Cores up to 5.0GHz Unlocked LGA1151 300 Series 95W (BX806849900K) cost me $330.
...
I guess what all this means is how much money can anyone really afford or want to spend. I have a brand new car and a 2008 Nissan Titan. Guess which one I drive 99% of the time?...lol The i9 is theoretically about 30% more powerful than that i5, however as you said, you might not notice any difference depending on what you do. And personally, depending on which new car it is, I might also prefer the old Nissan - this is why I still have my 2005 Pontiac. Simon.
what i'm wrestling with right now is what is the smart move regarding upgradeing to a new pc.
(your comment bout the new i3 has me pondering if refurbs are still the way to go.)
for the budget minded musician ?
just one example. lets take the scenario, for arguments sake...
the musician might run 48 traks , all with 3 plug ins per trak (i know its difficult depending on cpu useage of plug in, so lets say pg or reaps low cpu plugs), and lets assume a desktop running 2 ssd's; one for win 11 and one to record to with 16 gigs ram.
question. what processor installed in a under 500 buk pc will do the above, plus....
a. fast boot from cold in a few secs. (like my current never sees the net optimised i5 system.)
b. 3 minute song , gives me fastest possible mixdown time.
c. run biab, rband and reaps like a bunny rabbit.
ie app boots in a couple of secs. Many of the refurbs you've suggested have a 4th gen i5 or i7 in them, and these are often adequate for basic music purposes. For a decent budget brand new CPU the lowest current i3 and the equally low priced Ryzen chips will mop the floors with most of those 4th gen chips - see this link for comparisons: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-4770-vs-Intel-i3-10105-vs-AMD-Ryzen-3-3300X-vs-Intel-i7-4930K-vs-Intel-Xeon-X5570/1907vs4259vs3716vs2023vs1302The 4770 is a very common chip for refurbs, but see the benchmark vs the 10105 and 3300X, both are around $150? No comparison. For fun I put in the benchmarks of my two home computers - you'll notice the 4930K is much faster than the 4770 as it's 6-core and runs on a Xeon motherboard, but you'll also notice the X5570 - I have a pair of those in my old Mac Pro (so double the benchmark to ~6500 or so) and it'll chew through audio like nobody's business. The difference comes down to the other components, as the CPU only crunches the numbers. Everything else determines how quickly data gets into the CPU so that it can be processed. Billy's i9-9900K machine would feel awfully slow if it had only 2gb of ram, a 5400rpm hard drive, and an old GPU of some sort. Toss an SSD into my old X5570 Mac and load it with 48gb of ram though, and it handles everything I need. Your A/B/C questions - most of that depends on fast data access, which means SSD. You might not see/feel much difference in CPU speed if your storage is fast and you have adequate RAM. Really only plugins will require the faster CPu. A phrase mentioned many times on these forums..... "Buy as much as you can comfortably afford." I lucked into a massive discount on that tank of a Dell tower I have that has tons of cores/memory. It still cost $3K from Ebay as it was a refurb. Retail pricing for all that processor and memory power that came with it was $10K. So based on that huge discount, I was willing to part with my $$$. I've had it three years now and it's still running faster than a lot of 'normal' PCs. I fully agree with that, though I also say "buy something that can be upgraded". I paid a fair chunk for my old Mac Pro, but had I bought it brand new it would've likely been over $10k as well - list price for it new with a mere 6gb of RAM, a 640gb HDD, and the lowest end GeForce GT 120 was nearly $6k, and I've since added in a 512gb SSD, 2tb HDD, SATA 3 card, USB3, Geforce GTX 960, and 48gb of ram. For what its worth, I used to be a 100% Intel man. I've built a number of computers for myself and friends over the years and never even considedered puttting anything other than an Intel CPU in any of them......until my most recent build. AMD has completely eclipsed Intel in almost every way. I looked at the newest generation of Intel CPUs before doing my latest build and it was obvious to me that Intel is no longer taking the lead in invoation and have let AMD leapfrog them and start leading the way. The Ryzen family of AMD CPUs, is the way to go IMHO. I agree - the Ryzen chips are definitely taking the lead in both processing power and in efficiency - the top end Ryzen 5950X at the time of this writing not only outperforms the top end i9 10980XE by 36%, it uses 37% less electricity in the process - meaning 37% less heat.
I work here
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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