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Chantelle (at pg)
re midi issues... re embedded midi control commands.
going back years on these forums i would like a dollar for every time a new biab user has posted about haveing tried to import a midi song file from somewhere into biab, and as the new user was not up on midi subtleties is stymied by embedded midi control commands overriding any commands the new user makes.
i suspect lots of new users import third party midi files for sing alongs and patch change tests etc and adding their own spin to an existing midi song maybe.
BOTTOM LINE...the user wants to set their own command settings like patch changes etc.
as we know its not pg's fault or biab's.
the embedded commands/patch settings are related to the originator of the original midi file. which sometimes is not the new biab user.
so how to solve this problem, cos it keeps on cropping up with many user posts each year.
might i suggest....a wish ?
1. this problem and its solution (remove control commands via editing the midi data stream...) being clearly stated UPFRONT in pg support docs ?
also maybe tip of the day when biab is loaded for very first time of an import of a midi file ?
2. a new detection feature that ON FIRST IMPORT OF A MIDI FILE WITH CONTROL COMMANDS IN IT..
a new user to biab sees a screen explaining the embedded control commands issue and solution.
and the user be asked "remove all or some control commands " ?...and referencing a help/faq...and further
sub menus ?
maybe other experienced pg users have a better solution than i . ?
cos obviously this issue with people who are not au fait with midi is not going away. thus a solution is needed.
best
oldmuso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/20/21 04:59 AM.
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+1
But this issue is better handled in Real Band since it's a DAW. People expect things like this when working in a DAW but you're correct so many noob's come to Biab precisely because they're noob's and Biab is advertised as being "so easy to use" which it is until you run into something like this.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Lots of benefits could be introduced with such an alert message and an automated ability to resolve.
Careful and systematic processing of the MIDI data could alert the user of every potential issue, and allow these to be corrected.
+1
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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thanks for supporting my wish.
i strongly feel in addition pg products should have other detection/protection features built in; like we used to build into automated systems in industry.
particularly for new users.
before i go into those , lets examine one way pg might be losing business.
lets call it a case study. it will illustrate why i believe these detection mechanisms are important.
i remember years back mentioning/recommending biab to a musician i met in passing while on holiday.
he looked at me askance as if i was crazy and replied he had a friend who had problems.
needless to say i felt like a total idiot.
however i decided to probe further and found out the "friend"...
1. had not bothered to undertake any basic understanding / read any supporting product docs.
"nah he dont like manuals". he told me.
2. had not even the most basic understanding of midi and digital audio.
3. didnt want to spend the time on any learning curve.
4. was probably useing a dodgy sound device. and to boot....
5. it looked like the computer being used was a "poc". and not properly configured, with junk slow drives and junk old processor etc.
in summary the product was being blamed , when in fact the user was at fault.
which is what i pointed out to the musician i met who admitted "well my mate dont know much bout computers"..
as an aside years before this when i was an early powertraks user, i came across a similar scenario where
the problems, in reality, were points 1 thru' 5 for another musician i met who was useing a competing
multitrak product. once again the product was being blamed.
once the recording rig was properly configged no more problems.
SO WHAT TO DO ?
it would seem to me that we see on these pg forums the same posts time and again from new users on the same subjects.
1. the embedded midi issue.
2. use of on board sound or useing a dodgy sound device.
3. use of an underpowered or poorly configured pc.
"hey man why cant i run 48 traks and 3 sample libraries and 40 plug in instances ..."...lol.
thus i feel detection/protection mechanisms are needed for the 3 above situations at a minimum in biab
(and RB and PTRAKS.). and also mechanisms to stop any potential for hard "crashes". which then allows the user to blame the music software. as in;
"i keep on getting crashes on my new pc"....
(which actually might not be properly set up for daw work anyway.)
in addition a further detection // early warning system is needed should a user keep on loading up plug ins his/her pc cant handle. i would also recommend, as reaper and other daws do; within biab/rb/ptraks a user can always find out what processes might be causeing high pc resource useage...eg plug ins.
if other pg users have other user protection/detection ideas...post them.
the one thing i just dont know how to counter is the new user who just wont read manuals/faq's/helps and other docs.
best
oldmuso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/21/21 02:42 AM.
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Lots of benefits could be introduced with such an alert message and an automated ability to resolve.
Careful and systematic processing of the MIDI data could alert the user of every potential issue, and allow these to be corrected.
+1
I will support the idea of offering the option of deleting program change (PG) settings in a MIDI file but nothing else. If a novice starts deleting settings like pitch bend or mod wheel they would ruin a perfectly good MIDI file. YMMV So +1 for the PG option.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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+1
And I would like to have the additional option of a small MIDI monitor that shows me which channels have MIDI data on them and when the data starts. When importing MIDI melodies I'm almost always searching and trying out which channel the melody is on and if and how many bars of intro are before it. Most of the time my first try is wrong :-(
Biab/RB latest build, German Language Pak, Win 10/64 Pro, 1 TB SSD, 32 GB RAM. Notation SW Finale, StaffPad, SmartsScore – Playing Double Bass, Guitar, Piano
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Brille
re your midi needs. heres a quik/dirty solution.
try this. open up realband that comes free with biab.
clik new.
make sure you are in traks view.
import midi file and youll see all the channel assignments and individual midi channels visually on seperate traks. and notes in time.
plus youll see intro etc.
youll see immediately which channel has the melody.
tell me if that works for you.
best
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/23/21 09:45 AM.
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Hello Om.
Apart from the fact that it is time-consuming to open another program first and import the MIDI file there as a test, it is unfortunately also not a working solution: When I import the MIDI file in Realband, it places the melody in the first bar, when I import it in Band in a Box, it still hangs 2 bars before it (lead in + 1st bar) - even though I have set "Offset" and "Numbers of blank bars to insert at beginning" to "0". This is somehow not conclusive. So all in all this is not a dirty solution, but just a bunch of clicks more. Thanks for the tip anyway!
Biab/RB latest build, German Language Pak, Win 10/64 Pro, 1 TB SSD, 32 GB RAM. Notation SW Finale, StaffPad, SmartsScore – Playing Double Bass, Guitar, Piano
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Brille.
if that doesnt help you then i'm lost, ive not understood your needs.
i thought you wanted the midi ch assignments etc. so i offered a qd.
THUS....please go into lots of detail step by step exactly the features you need in biab, that would make you happy, and then i would submit it to the wishlist and pg support.
best
om
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+1
And I would like to have the additional option of a small MIDI monitor that shows me which channels have MIDI data on them and when the data starts. When importing MIDI melodies I'm almost always searching and trying out which channel the melody is on and if and how many bars of intro are before it. Most of the time my first try is wrong :-( Interesting comment. How do you currently search for the channels and melody and how many bars before the melody intro? The Sequencer tool in BIAB normally provides that information for my needs and so far, I've never had to resort to an external program or DAW to determine the channels, patch, the melody track or number of bars to intro. I'm curious to what process you use?
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 08/24/21 03:44 AM.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Oldmuso,
first of all I apologize if my reply post may have sounded a bit too unkind, it was not meant that way at all, my English is not always fluent. Thanks for your advice!
Charlie,
your reference to the sequencer actually helps me. I never really noticed this tool, but for a preview of MIDI files it is really useful!
This makes one thing clear to me again: Band in a Box is so versatile that on the one hand there are sometimes difficulties that really only affect a few users and on the other hand the program is so complex that you just keep discovering new functions that you haven't used at all so far.
Biab/RB latest build, German Language Pak, Win 10/64 Pro, 1 TB SSD, 32 GB RAM. Notation SW Finale, StaffPad, SmartsScore – Playing Double Bass, Guitar, Piano
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I'm glad you find it useful. I'm sure it will save you some time.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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