Hello all, I have BB2021. On some acoustic guitar tracks, the guitar has squeaks throughout the track. Although it was probably done to sound natural, it drives me crazy trying to use this track on a song. Also, it seems the guitar will play some strange lick that I have to remove from the recording.
I was hoping the PG developers would consider this for future releases. I have tried regenerating the track, using the simple arrangement, etc., and it does not fix the track completely.
The track I'm working with now uses _LONESON.sty. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I don't have that style so I can't try these suggestions, but I have eliminated noise and/or artifacts using the polyphonic version of Melodyne. 1-Carefully EQ this guitar track. This is not the optimum way but it might help. 2-If you have the polyphonic version of Melodyne you can eliminate said fret noise.
Last edited by MarioD; 10/08/2111:56 AM.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up. Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Hi, I’m gonna get some real complaints here. I’m lucky I have Reaper but a number of DAWs do it.
To reduce (or even eliminate) squeaks I use Spectral Editing. When Spectral Editing one can simply see the noise select the area and reduce its level. One can eliminate the squeak without greatly affecting the overall EQ of the note.
So, I have an easy solution that brings this under control pretty fast.
I will be using this all the time now on some of those old "Celtic" guitar tracks. Talk about squeaks!!
I learned this on youtube.
What you do is use a de-esser and the Izotope RX "de-clicker." I think I got that program for 9.99 or maybe free.
Anyway, it seems those squeaks are in a "male" de-esser range and I fiddled with both of these until I found settings that make it quite bearable with destroying the sound quality or naturalness.
I am all set now and I am glad someone forced me to figure this out.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
David, have a look at the Kenny Gioia video on Spectral Editing that I pointed to above. Trust me it is the quickest, easiest and most efficient ways to get shy of a lot of unwanted noise.
Even using the Spectral View can show one the bad areas (once a little experience is gained). The Spectral View can even show one the effect on a signal such as de-essing.
Just a thought,
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
It's not free, but if you want to do the job very quickly (like in a matter of seconds), the Izotope RX8 Standard bundle has a tool called "Guitar De-noise"
Tony's suggestions re Reaper are spot on. Kenny also does a GREAT video about creating a de-esser in Reaper that can easily be tweaked to removed string squeaks etc. It's a matter, as in all De-esers and dynamic EQs, of finding the offending frequency and then allowing the compressor of EQ to suppress/reduce the problem. I'd be inclined, personally, to use the Spectral image in Reaper and manually reduce the problem with automation of the Pre FX Volume automation line. It will take a little time but the results will be better. Sibilant sounds and strings squeaks drive me to distraction so I deal with these things as a matter of course and self preservation.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
The real advantage of using Spectral Editing over a de-esser is you can chop out the offending squeak, pop or whatever without affecting other parts of the signal. It is also possible to knock out very low frequencies if that is what is require.
IZotope RX8 will also do this but I’ve found it far easier just to use Reaper’s Spectral Edit as it is just a part of the track editing process. Once you do it a few times it becomes quite simple to go to the Spectral View on a track and actually see the offending noise. From there it is easy to reduce the level of the offending part (or eliminate it). Sometimes a reduction sounds more natural.
Try new stuff it is fun.
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
For sure but RealTrack 2914 is the only acoustic guitar RealTrack used in the _LONESON style user Robert Stevens mentioned in the initial post.
Musicians use to use guitar grease on their fingertips or flat wound strings to minimize squeaks. Now, virtual instruments have a knob to "dial in" how much squeaks you want.
This type of fix can also be done in BIAB using BIAB tools. No external software program used.
_____________
I loaded the _LONESON.STY Demo and located a bar with a guitar fret squeak. I removed the squeak in BIAB from the Audio Editor window.
I've attached a short MP3 file of three bars from the demo and a screenshot of the two Waveforms of the original unedited audio and the second clip of the repaired audio. You clearly hear the squeak in the first audio clip. The second audio clip repeats the three bars after I repaired the offending bar and the squeak has been eliminated.
Can you explain how you did this, what tool you used, what the steps were to find these tools in the menu, and maybe circle some stuff in Paint with some arrows and stuff.
I would not know where to begin.
Sorry!! Maybe I am dense!!!
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Can you explain how you did this, what tool you used, what the steps were to find these tools in the menu, and maybe circle some stuff in Paint with some arrows and stuff.
I would not know where to begin.
Sorry!! Maybe I am dense!!!
The tool I used: Audio Editor
The steps to find these tools in the menu: From the Main Chord Page Views Bar | Audio Editor Icon\ Select the Track and highlight audio
I guess I will watch the video and it will explain the steps and what you are using inside audio editor and how.
Thanks again.
David, it takes longer to explain it than to do it. Thus the video. Plus, there are multiple ways to do it according to the producers wants and needs on a project. The video is just over 4 minutes and I demonstrate two methods.
But in short, the two methods in the video is to either copy/paste a bar with a bad squeak with a bar from elsewhere in the song. Essentially, the same as doing a punch in recording. The second method is to actually punch in record. To do that, regenerate the offending bar using either the Audio Track or any Utility Track. It literally takes less than a minute to do either. The producer has the option to do multiple generations the same as if a session musician attempted multiple punch in's.
Doing the repair in BIAB's Audio Editor has many benefits. I'm sure you're aware of using Multi riffs in RealBand and when the seven riffs are generated, the menu gives you the option to have the riff start a few ticks early and continue a few ticks later. Well, the BIAB algorithm also seems to use this feature when it cross fades the cut in and cut out of the replacement audio. This is part of the creation of what PG Music has always called 'smooth transitions'. In other words, BIAB makes sure that at Punch in is seamless and works. I have seen this in the past and demonstrated to some other forum members since the addition of Utility Tracks, we can now see the actual WAV form and can observe the small area of changes in the Wave form sometimes during editing. You can see it more often if you change the actual chord to another chord. For instance, as a test, replace an F chord with a Dm chord and you're more likely to observe WAV form changes at the beginning and end of a bar.
Compare the two WAV forms in the earlier post. Even though I copy/pasted an existing chord, BIAB made audio changes beyond the Bar beginning and ending points while creating the 'smooth transition'...
Thanks! I appreciate that. Makes total sense. And it is "one way."
Something I have found with some Celtic tracks is they are squeaking all over the place, so I built the little tool I showed in the posted pics to "tame" them across the track in one fell swoop. It is doable.
I don't feel like buying RX 8 right now.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
i'm not trying to be a "smarty pants", but heres the quikest least mouse cliks i know david in case you had genned 2914 fp gtr in realband. and one reason of many je t'aime rb .
lets say on trak 15 in rb for arguments sake you genned 2914 , and you noticed for arguments sake bar 8 was squeaky. and was an em chord and also bar 14 is a good em chord no squeak . heres the QUIK TRIK. 1. bring up bars view in rb. 2. with mouse > clik on trak 15 bar 14 in rb bars view. (each bar is a little square). edit copy. 3. NOW with mouse > clik on trak 15 bar 8 (the bad bar), and edit paste..et voila done. ie paste overwrite.
i love bars view for this reeason. very simple. (you can also use rb audio editor of course like in bb) spend some time in bars view david and experimenting moveing chunks of audio and midi around its very powerfull. that one fix when i just did it took all of 2 secs to fix up 2914 one bar. best om ps...for powertraks users that might read this and assuming the latest version has bars view still. same deal.
I think that is the first video I've seen you post. Nice job. The copy and paste from one bar to another is quick.
Here's a question for you. Can you use an unused Legacy track or the Audio track for the copy, paste and regenerate activities instead of a utility track?
<< Can you use an unused Legacy track or the Audio track for the copy, paste and regenerate activities instead of a utility track? >>
Yes, an unused Legacy Track or the Audio Track can be use for the copy/paste and regenerate activities rather than a Utility Track but I prefer to use Utility Tracks for the following reasons.
01. There are 16 Utility Tracks to only the single Audio Track. This is relevant because the Audio Track has more editing functions than Utility Tracks currently have. I think it's better to reserve the Audio Track for more advanced processes when possible. 02. It can be done on a Legacy Track but the process takes longer because there are additional steps to complete the task using a Legacy Track.
Good points. However, my video instructions addressed the fix based on the circumstances presented by the original poster. He used BIAB not RealBand and it appears his project likely had more than a single bar that contained fret squeaks so his situation would likely need to have multiple occasions to copy/paste or regenerate the track.
Yes, it makes perfect sense to do this in RealBand had the project been started or already resided in the RealBand program. Other than those reasons, it's more practical to do this in BIAB.
01. The time required to export just the single track in the Style and import it into RealBand would take more time than the fix would require using BIAB. 02. If he regenerated that track in RealBand, RealBand accesses and works in conjunction with BIAB to generate tracks and partial tracks. Thus, it's more logical to do it in BIAB. 03. If the poster saved the BIAB project and then opened that file in RealBand, again, that process alone takes longer than it would take to fix the problem in BIAB. 04. In addition, were the poster completely satisfied with the track other than the squeaks and had frozen that track, opening the file in RealBand would cause that frozen track to be lost because RealBand doesn't recognize and preserve tracks that are frozen in BIAB. RealBand would generate a complete new version of all the tracks upon opening the BIAB file.
An interesting point about Legacy Tracks. Because the task of copy/paste between bars on a Legacy Track can be done without using or having Utility Tracks, it has been a task that could be completed in BIAB since 2015 without using external software programs.
Charlie. your excellent at helping folks with bb. no argument. and great kudos to you for your vast knowledge.and i admire how you donate your time to help people.
the only reason i post rb ideas/tips/triks sometimes is one never knows who is reading these forums. it might be a new user to pg who is exploring realband for the first time. and wondering if there was a solution in rb that was appropo.
i think even you will admit the forums are top heavy with biab posts/topics/solutions ? but there are those of us , like myself that like rb also,..because it TOO has somer pretty nifty triks and features, a lot actually...and just want to see rb prosper and develope further.
Charlie. your excellent at helping folks with bb. no argument. and great kudos to you for your vast knowledge.and i admire how you donate your time to help people.
the only reason i post rb ideas/tips/triks sometimes is one never knows who is reading these forums. it might be a new user to pg who is exploring realband for the first time. and wondering if there was a solution in rb that was appropo.
i think even you will admit the forums are top heavy with biab posts/topics/solutions ? but there are those of us , like myself that like rb also,..because it TOO has somer pretty nifty triks and features, a lot actually...and just want to see rb prosper and develope further.
best regards/respect om
No problem. So far, you and I are the only posters in this thread to have recommended PG Music products and its good we've both taken the time to submit a recommendation. I have no issue with anyone's recommendations or the solutions offered. All of them have merit. Most are dependent on individual workflow and not necessarily to how nifty a trick they are or how much someone has invested into an external software that emulates external hardware to artificially manipulate audio. That said, particularly for new users, which this is the original poster's first post, RealBand isn't the niftiest trick... BIAB's Audio Editor is for this problem. But every method that's been offered has merit and any one of them could be what's eventually chosen by the poster and others that may have a similar issue.
In regard to posts/topics and solutions I disagree there are too many about BIAB. BIAB is the flagship and all of the other PG Music is linked and dependent to BIAB. I speculated when posting my tip that most users would be unaware that this issue could be handled within the BIAB program in about 15 seconds. I didn't give consideration to RealBand because I didn't know what version the poster uses. It's irrelevant as this technique can applied to both Mac and PC as well as to every year and model version back to 2015.
This fix works nearly identically in RealBand so your suggestion is relevant and useful giving the original poster and any other reader of these comments the ability to choose any of the methods mentioned in this thread in relation to what they find to best fit into their personal workflow. Your tip to use RealBand is just as reasonable and useful as mine. Thanks for posting it.
So.... A lot of guys who work with midi spend hours trying to add squeaks and fret noise in the proper places to make it sound more realistic.
The easiest way I can think of to eliminate the noise you don't want is to use volume envelopes on the track. Zooming in helps. That makes the squeaks and fret noise easier to see and isolate. The TWO ways I would do this, and both involve reducing the noise, are muting and volume control.
I often do this in my DAW, simply because it's easier to do there.
An envelope is my go to. First, add a volume envelope to the track. When the noise appears.... simply zoom in to see the noise in the bar.... then drop three nodes.... one immediately before, one immediately after, and one on the peak. Pull the peak down. This method allows you to keep some of the noise, as the noise does in fact add realism to the track. However, by pulling the peak down, you have reduced the level substantially. If you want it gone... use 4 nodes and pull it out start to finish. Again zoom in... drop two nodes before and two nodes after. Pull the center down. Since most of the squeaks and fret noise are very short duration events.... milliseconds in most cases, the loss of the track audio is not even audible for that event. You can also use a "process audio"... "mute" event for the same purpose. Drag through the event in a DAW and mute it.
This is also really good to use for lip smacks, and breath noises in vocal tracks as well as anything else that clicks or pops in a track that needs to be removed.
Once you get the hang of working in this way, you can literally clean up a track in a matter of just a few minutes.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Good tips Herb. I've used those techniques in both RealBand and Studio One in the past. I agree that times it's better to leave some realistic noise or small mistake in a song and volume envelopes work really in these cases. Zoomed in micro mutes are also effective.
I know you're more than comfortable doing these tasks in Sonar and there's no reason to suggest you do otherwise but for those that either don't use a DAW, or prefer to stay in BIAB as long as possible, I'd like to pass along that your methods are also very quick and easy to do in the BIAB Audio Editor. The process is similar to cut/paste and just about as fast.
The Audio Editor doesn't have a envelope track but it does have both gain and audio leveling at the same zoom levels as a DAW so any offending region can be selected and the volume reduced, muted or erased. I've previously demonstrated the BIAB Audio Editor can also quickly copy new audio from somewhere else in the track or from another track or regenerate new audio if reducing a squeak, lip smack, breath or other noise isn't satisfactory.
The advantages of using Spectral Editing is one can get shy of any noise within a sound. Be it high or low or even somewhere in the middle. Say someone singing accidentally bumps the mic stand. The bump is in the middle of a really nice note. Using Spectral Editing one can get shy or create a reduction of the bump causing minimal damage to the note.
It is not alway possible or desirable to chop up an entire piece to get shy of unwanted noise. As for squeaks the really nice thing by using Spectral Editing it is very possible to edit the overbearing noise to something that sounds way more normal.
Just a thought
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 10/14/2112:18 PM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
The advantages of using Spectral Editing is one can get shy of any noise within a sound. Be it high or low or even somewhere in the middle. Say someone singing accidentally bumps the mic stand. The bump is in the middle of a really nice note. Using Spectral Editing one can get shy or create a reduction of the bump causing minimal damage to the note.
It is not always possible or desirable to chop up an entire piece to get shy of unwanted noise. As for squeaks the really nice thing by using Spectral Editing it is very possible to edit the overbearing noise to something that sounds way more normal.
Just a thought
Tony
You and Herb both make good points to the advantages of external DAW's and software Plugin solutions to fixing unwanted noise in tracks. At the same time, both of you illustrate to me why using the Audio Editor in BIAB is the best solution over every other option presented in this discussion. Various software solutions mentioned have been Melodyne, TDR-Nova, Spectral Editing, a de-esser with the Izotope RX "de-clicker and Spectro.
But the disadvantage to all of these methods became apparent to me when the analogy came to my mind between creating BIAB tracks in comparison to a live studio recording session where Plugins and DAWs are king. The disadvantage is none of the methods are correcting the problem at the source recording. Each of these methods are 'fixing it in the mix' like a recording engineer would be forced to do in a studio recording session because the session player has recorded their part and left the building. Best practice in recording is to get it right at the source. Correct it at the source and while your session artist is on the clock. BIAB can do this in the Audio Editor.
BIAB can punch in/overdub/regenerate glitches at the source before a track is ever sent out to a DAW to be used in a recording. Using the BIAB Audio Editor provides a pristine recorded audio RealTrack and none of the plugins or DAWs will have to be used to fix the track "in the mix" like a live recording session after the recorded track has been made and the session artist gone.
As important as having a clean and clear recorded audio track is BIAB's capability of creating smooth transitions that not only make seamless cross-fades. Every cross fade may have a small bit to both the preceding audio and the following audio of the inserted audio clip modified by the BIAB algorithm to blend the inserted audio to the entire track. This ability is confirmed by observing Multi Riffs can be instructed to begin a little early and end a little late. This is done by BIAB and is included automatically in the Audio Editor.
In other words, BIAB's artificial intelligence is creating a complex, professional quality arrangement from the insert in addition to simply inserting the audio clip.
I for one appreciate the thought and effort that all contributors have made here because I have learned some interesting tips and tricks I did not know before.
When I am doing any process, I appreciate having a number of options to choose from depending what I am doing, and want, and how much time I have.
The BIAB process will work also in Real Band, a tool I have mentioned at length in other posts.
I like RealBand because I can work fast in it, though some have told me I should never ever use RealBand, for any reason whatsoever, just because. Why, I am not exactly sure.
In this screen shot I generated a Celtic guitar. These tracks seem prone to squeaks, not sure why.
When I played it back, I found it was not just a squeak that bothered me, it was the phrasing and flow. It sounded choppy in some parts. (Just an example, mind you.)
So, I copied the track, and highlighted the first problem section in gray.
Then I did a regen on just that section. I am sure you can do this in audio edit in BIAB, but I prefer to work in RB for this kind of stuff.
It is easy. I think each person finds out eventually how they want to do stuff.
In do vocals in RealBand and will sometimes do 12 takes of the main vocal, then create a final vocal master track and just clip in the parts like.
This takes me about 5 to 10 minutes. (The final cut and paste.)
Again, I am sure each person uses various tools and techniques and settles on what is best for them.
Peace out.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
"At the source" 100% agreement. There are quite a few problems with RealTrack when it comes to clicks, clangs, squeaks and worse. Almost all can be managed and "work arounds" abound but getting it right at the source is key to a good workflow and good result. It's obviously cheaper to employ a software/code writer to fix some of these things than it is to hire a player, engineer and room to get it right though.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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