I had a request (from Captain Moto) to describe my vocal chain/processing:
Originally Posted By: CaptainMoto
HEY FJ, A little late getting back on this but....... I'm interested in your entire vocal recording/processing.
Primarily, what's your tracking set up? Any special mics, preamps processing on the ay in.
Secondly, how are you processing your vocals, are you mixing your own work? Everything always sounds clear and present.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Thanks moto
So, I thought I would do that here (in the Recording forum). Hopefully, others will chime in and describe THEIR chain/processing. We might all learn something new...
The 3630 does a good job of bumping up the volume some on soft passages and squashing down too-loud vocals. Setting: Threshold -10 Ratio 4:1 Attack about 1 ms Release about 100ms Output 0 dB
The output from the 3630 goes into the line-in on a Focusrite Scarlett 8i6.
I have, at time, run the microphone direct into the Scarlett ,no compressor, letting the software compressors do the work. But I like having the hardware compressor (no "hot" signals) and the Aphex seems slightly "warmer" than the Scarlett. But, the Scarlett does a fine job, too.
Processing:
I process vocals in my DAW (Studio One Professional 5.4, currently). If I need to de-ess a vocal (which is most of them to some degree), I typically do that manually. By far the best way to do it. I have a number of de-esser plugins and have used them at times, but manual is best. Everyone should learn how to do that. Solo the track and zoom in on the vocal track and walk through it finding the "esses" (and tcks and ch's). They look like a elongated football (American) and are very dense (compared to sung words). Cut on both sides of the "ess" and reduce the volume of that clip - about 60-70% (eliminating them completely will sound unnatural). After a while you will recognize the shape easily and can walk through an entire vocal in 15 minutes. It is 15 minutes WELL SPENT.
A typical vocal chain is Compressor EQ Reverb Delay
I like both a reverb and a delay, but you can use either/or, too.
I often use iZotope Nectar because it provides all of the vocal chain in a sigle processor (and you can learn a lot from trying different presets).
The Nectar chain that I use most often includes: Saturation EQ Compressor De-ess Limiter Reverb Dealy
The compressor settings are simialr to my settings for the 3630.
The EQ has a small bump (up) at 80, piulled down a bit around 160 and a small bump about 3k. I often have a cut (complete roll-off) above 10k (sometime sooner - 6k, maybe). Seems like some people really jack up the high end (trying to get a clear, clean vocal that sits above the mix), but, in my opinion, that is a big mistake. Use a refrence track of a favorite, similar song and "study" the overall sound of the vocal. It might surprise you how "dull" the vocals sound. I would call them "warm" as opposed to "crisp and brittle" - which is what you get if you crank up the high end of the EQ. (Same thing happens with stereo drum tracks - folks try to get a bigger snare and kick by cranking the high EQ and just end up with those crispy, brittle hi-hats. Old ears have that tendency...)
I often turn the saturation off - or way down - because it can muddy a vocal. (All of this, of course, can change from vocal to vocal) The de-esser isn't doing much because that was taken care of before (manually). The limiter is in my go-to preset and I don't pay much attention to it. The Delay is not in that preset, but I add it in (because I like the sound of reverb + delay).
I don't use a pop filter. But I do move around a bit as I sing. I'm typically about 10" away from the microphone and will turn my head so the "thrust" of louder parts "slides to the side" of the mic. I will move in a bit closer (and sing AT the mic) for things that are at the lowest notes of my range, because those come out a LOT softer (and my low range is creeping a little higher all the time. Particularly during allergy season - which in Florida is from January to December).
I don't know if anyone will find this helpful or not. But the Cap'n asked...
If I think of anything else, I'll add it later.
Hopefully, others will add THEIR setup so there are other opinions. There are a LOT of different ways to "get it right".
Yes, yes, yes, manual de-essing is the best option and, as you wrte, becomes easier once one becomes familiar with the visual representation. I've been using the spectral visual representation in Reaper recently as it makes the esses and plosives even easier to pick - and the visual cues when editing in with PreFX Volume automation make that side of things even easier, (the reduced esses lose yellow & red as they are de-essed).
I have a couple of bits of Alesis Micro gear that are still good value and the comp/limiter is part of my bass signal chain.
The high shelf so popular these days seems to be a result of a million YouTube heads banging on about adding "air". they neglect to mention adding "air" accentuates essing and triggers artefacts when combined with reverb. I notice the Waves/Abbey Road stuff has high & low shelf stuff and buys into that as well. Perhaps with tape it was the case that such things worked pre Dolby. In fact I was listening to a chap talking about how he likes to engage the Dolby A encoder but disengage the decoder because it adds ..you guess ed .."air".
You are a singer...you have a wonderful voice/instrument with full knowledge of that instrument and how to use it. Your set up reflects that and your mic technique reinforces that you've absorbed that understanding.
As I'm not a singer and have almost no control of my voice I use a VERY heavy compressor in the box: Modern Deathcore, (no nothing like the music genre but it does "colour"),...it does a good job of levelling my vocal - doesn't remove the need for level automation but makes it easier.
I also need to carefully EQ my voice as there are two or three sections in the freq. range that are VERY weak and another that is quite strident regardless of the mic used. (recently I had a fairly really good result with a dynamic mic ...I was doing a quick audio jot for a song and didn't bother setting up one of the three condensers in the drawer...less sensitive may be the way I need to go).
As mentioned, excellent outline of a signal chain that REALLY works REALLY well. Thanks. I've renewed impetus to review what I'm doing.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Thanks fj. That was a good read ... especially given your exceptionally high bar vocals. BTW, we used an AT 4033a on stage for years. I need to revisit it sometime. Your compressor > EQ is interesting. We've always run the opposite ... a big ole FWIW.
We are rather simplistic as follows:
Pop filter > Rodes NT1 mic > Scarlett 212 interface > Logic Pro X (DAW) > Izotope Nectar Breath Control > Izotope Nectar
90% of the time we use a self created Nectar preset with the following Nectar modules in the presented order:
EQ (2db bump at 400-800HZ & 4k-6kHZ) I've used this for 30 years on her vocals. Tape Sat Vintage compressor sim - very simple single band Analog Delay (very slight) Reverb (EMT 140 Plate simulation)
Light tweaks to the above per mix needs.
Never have used Nectar's de-esser or done any manual de-essing.
Never use Nectar or Logic's pitch editors. Janice's note bending would likely detonate them
... Your compressor > EQ is interesting. We've always run the opposite ... a big ole FWIW.
And neither of you is wrong! It's a track by track call here, which is why, for vocals, I rarely use a preset unless I know the track was done on the same equipment I used those settings on previously, end even then it's more of a 'Save/Load Group' so I have a set of various plugins all set up, as opposed to a single plugin with a preset settings.
We all do things different, all the matters is the end result.
I may start with sanding a piece of wood first then clean it before staining .. you may use thinner to clean it first, which also fluffs the grain, then lightly sand before staining .. both pieces will turn out different, but neither is wrong, and both could be nice.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
I have board in Cakewalk I use just for vocals. (Same with Drums.)
I have about 12 tracks preset with about 12 plugins I use on up to 12 vocal tracks, mixing stuff up or down depending on the song, and the flavor I am looking for.
I love Nectar 2 and the Abbey Road stuff from Waves, and also CLA Vocals, Plus, IK Multimedia's "Mic Rom" sim.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. (I use a MXL Condensor mic going into a Boss VE-20 "Vocal performer" into a Scarlett.) I like the chain and it gives me a really warm sound, with a smidgen of EQ and pitch correction before the vocal ever hits the audio interface.
Weird, I know. But it works for me.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
In the studio in Dallas we have two Avalon VT-737sp Channel Strips.
I have also heard good things about the Manley VOXBOX but we do not own one.
A large asortment of micorphones collected up over the years.
I sold the building in Fort Worth so after the pandemic and if I still have an interest I will buy or build a new building and re-set up.
Here at the house in Miami I have a large condenser mic and a tube pre. A waves Abbey Roads RS124 compressor. Mostly just cheap used stuff I have picked up. Never had any intent of doing any serious recording at home. More toys than tools here at home.
The pandemic and this latest health issue with tonsil cancer sugery has placed a good amount of unknowns on what I will do and what country I will live in going forward. My business here in Florida did exceptionally well in 2020 but labor issues and inability to buy everything I need in 2021 has given much though to selling out.
Cheers,
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 10/06/2103:10 PM.
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
Nice to see others describing THEIR vocal process/chain!!
It is almost always THE most important part of getting a good sound/recording. With a truly KILLER vocal, you hardly need a Band. J&B productions are all the evidence you need...
FJ, Nice thread! Thank you and all participants for sharing, lots of interesting info. I am horrible when it comes to mixing, but slowly making some progress.
But for what it is, my most used vocal setup is this: Arturia Audiofuse interface->Neumann TLM 107 (my pride and joy) boxed in Alctron PF8 pop filter foam box (which I highly recommend to anyone recording vocals) ->Cakewalk. Recording dry.
Most common plugin bin chain: Fabfilter EQ->Fabfilter Reverb -> Nectar 2 suit d-sser... Maybe light use of Fabfilter limiter depending on track.
My vocal chain differs depending on who I'm recording and where I'm recording them. I bounce between the following:
Shure SM7B/SM57/Audio Technica AT4050/AT4047SV, A couple modified Apex 460's, Sennheiser ME64 and ME66 shotguns (mostly for dialog not singing), Sennheiser MD421-II, and a strange but effective favourite for dialogue in a Carol MUD-525. I have a pile more mics I've used, but most are for special purposes (lavalier etc) or for "effect" like my old crystal mics and the like.
Mic preamps built into either the RME Fireface 800, MOTU 828mk3, MOTU Traveler, Mackie Onyx 1640 Firewire, or my Zoom H4N.
Outboard preamps from a Digidesign Pre 8-channel (which are VERY clean up to 70db gain and very neutral), a Focusrite "Tone Factory" channel strip with EQ, comp, etc, preamps from a rebuilt/repurposed Altec 1692A mixer (lower gain but transformer input/output), channel strips from an old StarSound DynaMix console, and a bunch of custom built preamps I designed back in college.
Typically any EQ or compression I do "in the box" with whatever plugins I have available. The stock plugins in most DAWs are great - nobody needs to buy fancy plugins - really the only third party plugins I use are limiters and more "specialized" ones like dynamic EQ, multiband compressor, and those don't need to be used on everything.
I agree with Floyd about manual de-essing and removal of strange mouth sounds - it's much faster and more effective to manually edit things than to futz around with a plugin trying to get it to sound right. This is exactly how I feel on most editing tasks imho.
My physical recording chain isn't worth mentioning.
However, as soon as I get the vocal in my DAW, I'll manually slice up the phrases/words/syllables (depending on what it needs) and normalize everything.
I'll also go through and slice up sibilants and plosives, and fix them, as well as removing all breaths and such.
Other stuff, I'm still experimenting. But I find it much easier to start cleaning the vocal up manually, instead of leaving it to the compressor or de-esser.
Hey FJ, Thanks for that. This is the first time I've ventured out into this area of the forum, it was well worth it!
I absolutely agree with your comments on De-essing.
It seems I've developed a sibilance problem over time, so I frequently de-ess my vocals manually. I'm never happy with the canned De-essers, maybe I just haven't learned to use them....but doing it manually works best for me.
Here's my chain: I have a number of mics (Sm57, Sm58, Sm7B, EV RE20, Cad E70, AEA KU5A) For quite a while I was hooked on the RE20, But now I use that mostly for backing vocals. My primary vocal mics are the SM7b and the AEA KUA5 ribbon. I'm leaning heavily on the KU5A these day, It seems to help me reduce sibilance.
My pre amp is an A-Designs PACIFICA. I'm using a Black Lion B172A compressor, that provides both LA2A & 1176 style compressors.
That all goes into my Focusrite Clarett interface into Studio One.
I don't have a go-to plugin process although, I'll alternate between FABFILTER PRO Q3, Isotope Nectar and/or Waves Scheps Omni Channel.
I apply Delay/Reverb to taste, based upon the song.
Forgot to mention: I ditched my vocal condenser mics because they just picking up too much room noise. I've built a "sound isolated" & fully treated room so, now I'm shopping for a good condenser to add to my mic locker.
Interesting reads. Just wondering why you don't use a pop filter, Floyd?
I have one that I made years ago (embroidery hoop and pantyhose on a gooseneck), but it doesn't really make a difference (for me) due to how I sing into a microphone (or, actually, NOT into the mic), so I found it a distraction without much benefit....
Well this is how I am doing things right now. I've been doing recording for about 3 years now. Ever since my youngest boy finished his baseball carreer and now I have a lot more spare time.
Vocal input: XML 770 condenser microphone, no pop filter, (I don’t like it blocking my view) to Scarlet 2i2 Audio Interface.
Vocal track chain in Reaper DAW Input FX: ReaGate. Set around -60db. To reduce noise from my computer and room.
Subtractive EQ, compressor, Additive EQ, compressor, W.A. Productions Vocal Limiter I read that is was better to do the compression and eq this way. Not sure if I can tell the difference!
Vocal Reverb: ReaVerbate (set like Kenny G showed in his recent Reverb video) Vocal Delay: ReaDelay (set like Kenny G showed in his recent Delay video)
Edit split at the breaths and reduce. On the harmony tracks, edit split and delete all breaths. Nudge harmony tracks if required to line up better to main vocal.
And yes I must say that I stole Mr. Floyd's vocal technique (from your pinned video, a little bit of me goes a long long way) Singing to the side of the microphone. Seems to have reduced my sibilance too
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