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#606670 - 07/15/20 09:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW
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Pipeline Offline
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RapidComposer, FLStudio and WinAmp just have a small vst that sends tempo,sync,play,stop,loop,continue from the DAW to sync them to it.
If you could just get a VST/VSTi in the DAW that it's sole purpose is to send the host's tempo,sync,play,stop,loop,continue to the main Biab app you could load the free reastream-standalone.dll VST Win or free AUNetSend/Receive Mac to send the Biab audio master or separate tracks and midi back to the DAW.

Here's a video showing Biab slave synced to the DAW with MultiRiffs generated in Biab playing along with the DAW tracks
Watch Biab-Transport-VST-2.mp4
Download Biab-Transport-VST-2.mp4

A way of syncing Biab has been ask for many times
Quote:
Why can't BIAB run just in slave midi clocked or MTC slave mode?
Asked for this already in ATARI days, and is still IMO a most desirable function.


There is a ReWireVST that works great with RealBand but not Biab
ReWire RealBand/PT
and ReWire was suppose to be implemented in Biab but it never eventuated, maybe because of technical reason's ??
But you won't need proprietary ReWire, a small sync play VST should be easy to make as it only needs to send VstTimeInfo from the DAW to Biab's transport, this will then sync Biab with any DAW !


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#606892 - 07/17/20 03:18 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Pipeline, impressive!

+1

P.S. Please excuse my question if it seems silly, could it work both ways, sending chord output from BIAB to DAW at the same time?

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#606898 - 07/17/20 03:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Pipeline Offline
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It is sending the audio and midi as a master or to separate tracks from Biab to the DAW tracks, the chord track info would need to be exported from Biab as xml or midi to the DAW.
The Biab Plugin would be capable of that if ARA is implemented
https://github.com/Celemony/JUCE_ARA
this would also send the tempo map and time signature changes to and from the Plugin.
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#610884 - 08/15/20 10:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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+1
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#610906 - 08/16/20 07:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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MarioD Offline
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+1
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#614353 - 09/09/20 02:34 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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Pipeline Offline
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#628462 - 12/07/20 11:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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Pipeline Offline
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See here, Attila SEES and implements:
Originally Posted By: "como baila" post_id=4593684 time=1311127606 user_id=9693

And this would be the 'BIG' feature that would propel your program to the top of the charts: create a midi VSTi plugin version that could run directly within a DAW like Cubase.

Harmony Improvisator or 7Aliens Catanya are examples of this approach ... but implemented at an infinitely inferior level compared to your program.

Como

Originally Posted By: musicdevelopments post_id=4594621 time=1311190393 user_id=223336

Thanks for all the requests. The VSTi plug-in version would not be too much work...

Thank you!
Attila

That's exactly how the RC Plugin worked with your DAW, the same way I suggested above for Biab.
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#676041 - 10/02/21 09:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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swingbabymix Offline
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+1

I know this form of FL Studio.
However, I think VST alone is more in line with the future trend
However, one more function is better than one less function.


I know this form of FL Studio.
However, I think VST alone is more in line with the future trend
However, one more function is better than one less function.
I support it.
At the same time, I also hope to continue to improve bbvst, because I think bbvst is very simple and easy to use!
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#676051 - 10/02/21 11:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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Pipeline Offline
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I think they held back on it as Biab does not use fractional/decimal tempo maps, so aligning with the DAW that had a decimal tempo map would be an issue, BUT Biab can playback tempo percentage so I would of thought it could use that to stay in sync with the DAW transport.
It could calculate and use a decimal playback percentage.
The files can be Acidized to fit the DAW tempo map.


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#676216 - 10/03/21 07:59 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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VideoTrack Offline
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+1 to this also.
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#676284 - 10/04/21 10:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Pipeline
See here, Attila SEES and implements:
Originally Posted By: "como baila" post_id=4593684 time=1311127606 user_id=9693

And this would be the 'BIG' feature that would propel your program to the top of the charts: create a midi VSTi plugin version that could run directly within a DAW like Cubase.

Harmony Improvisator or 7Aliens Catanya are examples of this approach ... but implemented at an infinitely inferior level compared to your program.

Como

Originally Posted By: musicdevelopments post_id=4594621 time=1311190393 user_id=223336

Thanks for all the requests. The VSTi plug-in version would not be too much work...

Thank you!
Attila

That's exactly how the RC Plugin worked with your DAW, the same way I suggested above for Biab.


Who is Attila? What does he do with PG Music?
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#676327 - 10/04/21 02:44 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Jim Fogle]
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#679526 - 10/27/21 03:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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nonchai Offline
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interesting suggestion! but as we all know - merely a stickytape workaround until PG finally either

A ) incorporates the entire BIAB engine inside the plugin itself

or

B ) incorporates a very similar streaming architecture to eat Pipeline has discussed - but using the BB4 daemon process to stream audio directly into the BIAB plugin itself.

I really hope this is what PG devs Adar etc are working on for BIAB 2022. Not only should the plugin be equally fast ( or slow ) as the standalone in order to really change how users workflow is impacted - adopting even more advanced techniques to boost regeneration times of RT styles would really help. Because although being able to stream demo Mp3's. of style when browsing is useful - ultimately we always need to audition style against the chord progression and tempo we wish to use. And only regeneration in the song itself will do that.
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#679544 - 10/27/21 05:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: nonchai]
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This is how it is at the moment:
Re: ADVANTAGES OF REALBAND OVER PG's COMPETITION.
Originally Posted By: Marty Ricciotti
...

So right now I make tracks in BB then export.
When I need some more instruments I open BB again and then export more tracks.

I have the BB vst loaded in Reaper but I only use it their for the track settings and following the chords when I play along.
I don't like the way the BB vst needs to generate a set of tracks to your temp folder that you have to go and clean out.

But... this is a bit of a slow way to arrange.

...


You don't need to stream audio from bbw4 to the BBPlugin when
bbw4 could just generate up the RT RD data that the plugin will play back the source files direct from the hard drive.
This will work as fast as generating midi tracks so it will be even faster than Biab.
This will work for now but eventually the BBPlugin needs to get away from bbw4 and do all the generate functions directly in the BBPlugin as there are too many restrictions in the bbw4 holding it back in the 90's same as Biab.

As for the tempo sync VST that is a simple solution for those that only want to use Biab.
As for PG putting the whole of Biab in the BBPlugin I can't see that happening as it took ages fighting to get just the solo mute buttons in the BBPlugin.

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=678120#Post678120
The Demo mp4 below shows how Direct Play works, no generating to RAM then rendering to wav.


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#679549 - 10/27/21 05:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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Pipeline Offline
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#679553 - 10/27/21 06:14 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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Pipeline.
as you know i highly respect your efforts and great ideas....and fully support them.
but as i was a coder/programmer in a past life....
i was thinking like a pg developer might.
eg do you have any ideas how a developer might protect
a user from him/herself who decides to set up a project studio but decides, to save money, to use auntie bessies old hand me down pc thats a poc. that runs at 1ghz, with a junk slow hard drive...and then at the same time as all the clocking is occurring tween daw and plug in etc loads up a sample lib...and BINGO the whole thing crashes down around the users ears..cos the pc isnt up to the task.

so then the new naive user comes on the forum and blames pg. OR even worse disses biab on social media.
for example ive seen on various user forums on the net/social media in the past people dissing a certain daw or music software, whereas the real reason was their lack of knowledge and/or a poc pc.

frankly its a conundrum // catch 22 for pg imho.only thing i can think of is , assuming all these lovely features we all want are put into bb by pg, that on first
load of bb by a new user...a message comes up telling
the user 'your pc is not up to snuff'.

be curious any ideas you have. how do the developers
protect users with junk pc's from themselves.
i would love to see all these lovely features...
but how do we tell naive new users..hey buddy ideally you
need to use a processor with a min rateing on cpu benchmark of 10000 and nvme or m.2 ssd's. and lots of ram etc etc.

much respect. please sir can i have more bars view in bb
also lol.

om


Edited by justanoldmuso (10/27/21 06:26 AM)
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#679627 - 10/27/21 03:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: justanoldmuso]
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Pipeline Offline
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Biab main application can be left how it is as a legacy application, or maybe the older 32bit version without all the extra Utility Tracks to make it easy for old users with old hardware.

But you can't hold back development because of old users with old hardware and say to studio users with modern DAW's, "Sorry guys there's nothing we can do for you"

This is Reaper on XP playing RealTracks direct from USB 2.0



This is EnergyXT 1.4 32bit 2005 VST playing all the tracks direct from PG hard drive



Band-in-a-Box runs on Windows 7 / 8 / 8.1 / 10 (32 or 64-bit) and require at least a 1.0 GHz processor (2GHz+ multicore recommended). Basic MIDI features require a less powerful computer than the latest RealTracks features. For best performance, we recommend a fairly up-to-date computer with Windows 7 or higher, a fast processor, and at least 2GB RAM

REAPER supports all Windows versions from Windows XP to Windows 10.

I can understand the drawback in the 90's and Win95 not being able to handle that but it will be 2022, DAW's have had non destructive editing for over 20 years they are using ARA & VST3 now, PG are still using destructive editing from the 90's.
With so many users requests PG made so many excuses not to go 64bit BUT when Apple went 64bit only, PG was forced to release a 64bit version.
You can't hold back the whole of the DAW audio industry development because of "auntie bessies old hand me down pc", did the ARA developers say "sorry guys we can't develop ARA because of bessie, let's leave it for another 30 years" ?
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#679631 - 10/27/21 04:27 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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justanoldmuso Offline
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Pipeline.
you said 'you cant hold back...' etc
i cant disagree with you. and i would hate to see development held back.
but then all i'm saying is then pg will need to build in a test to indicate the new users pc is a poc and incapable.

lets take an industrial example i was involved in once.
1. the end user group was on us IT groups back constantly
for new features...but
2. were not willing to invest in new computer hardware
which was badly needed.
of course we tried valiantly to keep the user group
happy, but without new investment dollars...the IT group was faceing a no win situation.
its a familiar situation IT groups face all across the world. and one reason of many i got out of the rat race.

i really DO want all the lovely features we all want ,
..but all i'm arguing for pipe is a feature to rescue
users from auntie bessie pc's..as in...
HEY THERE YOU NEED A NEW PC cos your riunning a POC..lol.

best/respect
om
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#679701 - 10/27/21 09:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: justanoldmuso]
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Pipeline Offline
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The post is about having a vst to send VstTimeInfo to Biab.
That would not be a problem.
The thing they were worried about is that Biab is old and it don't have a decimal/fractional tempo map if the DAW has.
This can be sorted by changing the playback % to sync with the DAW, then the Tracks have the ACID tempo written to them so the simply fit the DAW tempo map when dragged in.

That has nothing to do with old users with old hardware.

The other Gen/Play Direct is for the BBPlugin that a lot of users don't like as it's not as quick as Biab to generate, same deal why RealBand is not as popular as BIAB, BUT could be with the Instant Gen/Play Direct.

IF IF the Gen/Play Direct Non Destructive Editing was added to main Biab it would simply have an option for doing things the old way or the new way.
"I want to play direct" Ok I will play direct.
"I don't want to play direct" Ok I will render the files to RAM and play it for you.
"I want Non Destructive Editing" Ok I will reference the source files.
"I don't want Non Destructive Editing" Ok I will write new wav files.


See below the Midi Tracks Gen time, this is the same way the Instant Gen/Play Direct will work for RT RD Audio.



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#679735 - 10/28/21 04:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: A VST to send Tempo/Play/Stop/Loop/Continue to main Biab app from DAW [Re: Pipeline]
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justanoldmuso Offline
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Pipeline.
well ive been a good lad all year lol.. so maybe father xmas will bring some of these goodies in
biab 2022. perchance to dream.

best
om
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