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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7
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OP
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Feature request to provide a setting that will display all accidentals for any key instead of the key signature and on a C key sig staff.
For example, song is in Bb. Instead of Bb key sig, key sig is C and all accidentals in the song are noted in the staff, i.e., every measure the Bb and Eb notes will have the b flat sign as well as any other accidentals the song requires.
I know how to transpose and use the concert key setting but this does not do the above. The way this works is a song can be transposed to any key and I want to read it in another key, ok but still would like option described above.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2000
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I support this, with maybe a modification if you are willing. +1
Rickeyjt, you win this month's award for longest time/fewest posts, but this one is a very interesting one. A few of us have discussed jazz songs and key signature changes, but not made a specific Wishlist request to my knowledge.
Background: I see increasing use of the key of C in jazz songs that modulate a lot (not just in the bridge). Is that what you are referring to? The alternative is to put in frequent key signature changes, which often makes it harder to read and can even make it quite confusing to keep track of. I can't cite any music notation textbooks at the moment, but I recognize writing in C as a 'modern' way to notate progressive jazz now. I'm betting BIAB user dzjang, if he sees this, will have a supporting comment.
However - BIAB uses the key signature in the algorithms to determine what it plays. I think what you might be requesting is that BIAB would continue to do this for songs and you would enter the various key signature changes, but BIAB would offer a PRINT OPTION that prints it in the key of C and supplies all accidentals. This could also be separately applied to the Leadsheet mode, for those who play live and read the screen. Does that make sense to you?
If so, then there is more to consider. Would you want any intelligence to help avoid situations like these two:
1) a chord using a scale with sharps, but notes with flats in the chord tones (and vice versa)
2) having a mixture of sharps and flats in ascending or descending lines (something to avoid)
Or, just never mind that and print it the way you wrote it?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2021
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Another display option to consider is "all notes are natural unless explicitly sharped or flatted", i.e., accidentals affect one note only and not the entire measure.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2006
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OP
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Well I am hopeful that the jazz cats can use this idea. For me, activating the Leadsheet or Notation yields the display I am talking about. In the end, I would save and print the pdf and read the sheet from any device or clipped to my steering wheel while driving. Don’t laugh, been doing it for years.
My personal reason for the request is as follows. I am a pro drummer, jazz, rock, etc., that also has a passion for diatonic harmonica, mostly blues or country styles. The lines and spaces on the staff represent in my mind the blow and draw holes on the harp. Any diatonic harp can be used to play in different keys, called positions, i.e., playing a harp tuned in one key and the music in another.
For example in key sig C the C on the treble clef is the 4 hole blow on the harp. It would be too difficult to read other keys translating which note on the staff corresponds to any particular hole.
In BIAB I can now play in any key and using the concert instrument transpose key, I can get the result to read the staff (e.g. in C or G or D, etc.) and have the lines and spaces always correspond to the diatonic harp hole numbers. I can read in all key signatures. However, the request I asked for is another way of displaying the same flat and sharp information more clearly or directly without a key signature.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Harmonica? I did not see that coming.
Thanks for clarifying. I would actually like to see your request implemented for the reasons I gave, and hope it works for you too.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2012
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I can see certain benefits, but also understand how it might affect what happens 'under the hood'. Nevertheless, there is potential, and I'd welcome exploration to see what might be able to be delivered.
+1
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2006
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OP
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I can't cite any music notation textbooks at the moment, but I recognize writing in C as a 'modern' way to notate progressive jazz now. I'm betting BIAB user dzjang, if he sees this, will have a supporting comment.
Blues Improvisation Complete by Jeff Harrington, Berklee Press is where I got exposed to the idea some time ago. Harrington's C Treble or C Bass books The accidentals are good for the entire measure, contrary to Mark Hayes' suggestion.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Yes, as I mentioned, I knew there were some textbooks on this, so thanks for these references.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Rickeyjt, I can see why any musician might want this (pieces in different keys notated without key signatures) but I can't quite follow the harmonica connection. Why would such a feature be of value to harmonica players especially? I gather it has to do with diatonicity?
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2006
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It makes the hole numbers more easily identifiable while reading. Seeing a C# or Db will always be a number 4 hole draw half step bend. Playing in the key of G, typical key signatures to read in would be G, C, F, Eb or D. In the C key sig with accidentals, you don’t have to think about actual key sigs because it’s all about quickly finding the hole to play.
The fact the diatonic harmonica is diatonic is not the issue here. What is different is other instruments are of one device requiring fingering patterns to play in all keys. Chromatic harmonicas come in different keys too. The diatonic harmonica, generally speaking, comes in all twelve keys so to play in any other key means switching harmonicas and therefore the “fingering patterns” are all the same. That is holes 4-7 on a C harp are a major scale as holes 4-7 on an A harp are a major scale.
I certainly can play any diatonic tuned harmonica in any key, difficult and done by some, but creates what I would term odd fingering. This odd fingering, or scale patterns, can work to a musical advantage for the harmonica player, depending on the genre/style of music, or be very clumsy to implement musically. Many accomplished players can play a single harmonica in all twelve keys. However, certain styles, blues for example, depend heavily on the tone color. Playing a harmonica using the right notes but harmonicas in certain other keys will not cut it.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2021
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Thanks for the detailed response, still working on clearing my mental fog though.
Let me ask this. If you have an A harp, and the song is a simple A major scale, how are you looking to see it notated? Starting on A with certain notes sharped, or starting on C with no sharps?
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2006
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OP
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I think I did it. Example:
1. Create song in Bb, melody simple major Bb scale
2. Set Concert Key -3 to put leadsheet in G (key to read in)
3. Set Just Set Key Signature to Eb and Lead sheet and now -
"No Key Signature - use only accidentals"
NOTE: Just Set Key Signature to C first and see how many sharps or flats in this key sig you need to zero out to get to C key sig now using only accidentals each measure.
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