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#697673 - 01/11/22 01:56 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Resolved]
Registered: 01/15/15
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Gordon Scott Offline
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Registered: 01/15/15
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Loc: Hampshire, UK
BiaB 2022 (912 I think).

I've just recorded two or three times and have concluded that, whilst the MIDI sostenuto messages are being recorded, they are not being honoured.

Recording to Melody, copy track to a Utility track, neither sustains.

I don't know whether that's expected, something I need to manage, or a bug.

Gordon.
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#697677 - 01/11/22 02:26 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Gordon Scott]
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MusicStudent Offline
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Quote:
I don't know whether that's expected, something I need to manage, or a bug


What a perfect way to sum up the whole product update experience. grin
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#697699 - 01/11/22 04:40 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Gordon Scott]
Registered: 06/05/12
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AudioTrack Offline
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Can you check the recorded MIDI data for the correct Control Change message?

Sostenuto is CC66. That will tell you at least if it is getting recorded from your MIDI device in the first place.

(Not to be confused, separately, the Sustain Pedal is CC64)

Tip: Use of the Event Filter may be useful:


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Edited by VideoTrack (01/11/22 04:44 PM)
Edit Reason: Added screen capture
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#697767 - 01/12/22 01:24 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: AudioTrack]
Registered: 01/15/15
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Loc: Hampshire, UK
Gordon Scott Offline
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Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1116
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Hi VideoTrack,

Yes, I've checked the MIDI events and they're there.

What occurred to me overnight is that this may well be an issue with the synth engine, and nothing to do with BiaB itself. I'll look deeper later today.

Gordon.
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Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 10; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.

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#697774 - 01/12/22 02:51 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Gordon Scott]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 16108
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
AudioTrack Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
Hi VideoTrack,

Yes, I've checked the MIDI events and they're there.

What occurred to me overnight is that this may well be an issue with the synth engine, and nothing to do with BiaB itself. I'll look deeper later today.

Gordon.

Thanks Gordon. Good feedback, and this might help to identify if the issue is before, inside, or after BiaB.
Do keep us in the loop!
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#697791 - 01/12/22 07:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Gordon Scott]
Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1116
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Gordon Scott Offline
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Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1116
Loc: Hampshire, UK
OK ... I've just done that again, but used PianoTeq instead of VSTSynthFont64 and with PianoTeq I have the sostenuto operating as it should.

Resolved.
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Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 10; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.

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#697797 - 01/12/22 08:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Gordon Scott]
Registered: 06/21/21
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Mark Hayes Offline
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Posts: 1507
Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
OK ... I've just done that again, but used PianoTeq instead of VSTSynthFont64 and with PianoTeq I have the sostenuto operating as it should.

I’m seeing suggestions that MIDI sostenuto is inconsistently implemented, sometimes being treated the same as sustain, sometimes being ignored.

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#697807 - 01/12/22 09:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Mark Hayes]
Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1116
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Gordon Scott Offline
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Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1116
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Indeed, that's why I tried it with PianoTeq ... I figured that it would not sensibly handle it wrongly. It also shows the pedals operating on the plug-in's window, so I can see the press and releases as they work.


Edited by Gordon Scott (01/12/22 10:16 AM)
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Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 10; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.

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#697913 - 01/12/22 05:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Mark Hayes]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Simon - PG Music Offline
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Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
OK ... I've just done that again, but used PianoTeq instead of VSTSynthFont64 and with PianoTeq I have the sostenuto operating as it should.

I’m seeing suggestions that MIDI sostenuto is inconsistently implemented, sometimes being treated the same as sustain, sometimes being ignored.

That is correct, as sustain and sostenuto are two very different things. Some plugins have it implemented and some most don't.
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#697924 - 01/12/22 06:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Simon - PG Music]
Registered: 06/21/21
Posts: 1507
Mark Hayes Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/21/21
Posts: 1507
Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
OK ... I've just done that again, but used PianoTeq instead of VSTSynthFont64 and with PianoTeq I have the sostenuto operating as it should.

I’m seeing suggestions that MIDI sostenuto is inconsistently implemented, sometimes being treated the same as sustain, sometimes being ignored.

That is correct, as sustain and sostenuto are two very different things. Some plugins have it implemented and some most don't.

This thread got me a-googlin first about MIDI then about the history of pianos and piano pedals. Not surprisingly, it took a while for piano makers to standardize pedal function, and while things were still in development, you might have a piano with 8 pedals (why not? why stop at 7?) including one to hold little strips of metal against the strings. Many a musical heart must have broken when its favorite weird piano pedal was taken away by the march of history.


Edited by Mark Hayes (01/12/22 06:08 PM)

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#697968 - 01/13/22 04:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Mark Hayes]
Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1116
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Gordon Scott Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1116
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
you might have a piano with 8 pedals (why not? why stop at 7?)

Hehe; I think that's either a harp or an organ, but don't quote me. laugh
_________________________
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 10; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.

Top
#698131 - 01/13/22 05:03 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Recorded MIDI not honouring sostenuto [Re: Mark Hayes]
Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Simon - PG Music Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 1573
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
Originally Posted By: Simon - PG Music
Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
OK ... I've just done that again, but used PianoTeq instead of VSTSynthFont64 and with PianoTeq I have the sostenuto operating as it should.

I’m seeing suggestions that MIDI sostenuto is inconsistently implemented, sometimes being treated the same as sustain, sometimes being ignored.

That is correct, as sustain and sostenuto are two very different things. Some plugins have it implemented and some most don't.

This thread got me a-googlin first about MIDI then about the history of pianos and piano pedals. Not surprisingly, it took a while for piano makers to standardize pedal function, and while things were still in development, you might have a piano with 8 pedals (why not? why stop at 7?) including one to hold little strips of metal against the strings. Many a musical heart must have broken when its favorite weird piano pedal was taken away by the march of history.

Thankfully there are many aspiring musical nerds engineers who are tackling the problem of not having enough weird pedals on a piano.



This is one I want to do if I get the time and/or a piano to butcher laugh
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