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#697910 - 01/12/22 05:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug?
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Vincente Offline
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Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug?
If it does not, then should have one to track all bugs user report and displays the status of the bug.


Edited by Vincente (01/12/22 05:02 PM)
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#697918 - 01/12/22 05:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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+1

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#697931 - 01/12/22 06:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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If you believe you found a bug, report it in the forum. Other forum users will verify the bug, some questions maybe asked to clarify the bug.

Several forum users can pass the bug information to PG Music through the beta forum.

PG Music does not have a public bug tracking system.
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#697955 - 01/13/22 12:45 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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#698773 - 01/16/22 06:53 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Jim Fogle]
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Vincente Offline
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This is not a good way to support the customer Without a public bug tracking system.
How do one know the bug being reported & PG have acknowledged the bug?
How do one know the bug being fixed? -what version, date?

If one finds the bug before report, one can look the bug has been reported or not at the public tracker (save customer time)
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#698784 - 01/16/22 07:31 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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Matt Finley Offline
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Jim’s good answer above describes the present system. While not perfect, it tends to filter out the actual bugs from the situations that are more a question of user understanding and education.
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#698797 - 01/16/22 08:32 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Matt,
I do not agree to this:
"it tends to filter out the actual bugs from the situations that are more a question of user understanding and education."

It is always a hunt for resolution and reliance on particular user's memory of scattered posts & solutions and a will of those mentioned to help. If the bug reporting thread is in place, it would be a simple "bump": "I have same issue". Without starting another thread. If it was reported and not resolved, send poor soul to bump that thread. If it was solved, point to "Resolved" post.

1) It could create a single database for known issues.
2)Fixed or "Resolved" (User error) posts archived to the bottom of the list.
3) could be done with a simple "vote" button. And automated. 2-3 confirmation "votes" of the issue could prioritize it's standing in the list in bold and make devs aware.
--------------

I do not not see a single reason why having bug reporting thread is an issue.

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#698803 - 01/16/22 08:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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Mark Hayes Offline
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I don't see how any vendor could have a public bug tracking system that wasn't vulnerable to inappropriate entries based on misunderstanding and/or desire, and didn't open them up to a kind of populist terrorism. But I don't really know, are any other vendors doing this? Not talking about open source projects here.

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#698817 - 01/16/22 09:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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#698819 - 01/16/22 10:10 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Mark Hayes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#

OK, that's what I was wondering about, point taken.

Except... the Native Instruments link gets you "This forum is closed for good after over 15 years of fun. It’s now only accessible as a read-only archive until further notice." And if you follow the link to their new forums, "Bug Reports" has zero posts!

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#698820 - 01/16/22 10:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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I didn't go "hunting" just very basic 1 min search.

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#698821 - 01/16/22 10:21 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Matt Finley]
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Gordon Scott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
... it tends to filter out the actual bugs from the situations that are more a question of user understanding and education.


Though some of those misunderstandings and some of that need for education could perhaps reasonably be considered shortcomings of the software.

I my time as a developer I had actively to encourage our sales and support people to feed information back to us. "I don't care if the customer 'gets it wrong' or just feels it isn't righ ... I'd like to know about it. We may address it, we may not, but if we don't see the message we'll do nothing."

We set up a system deliberately not called a bug/fault report and actively encouraged any feedback they liked. And they did. Most was also sensible and constructive.

One of the things that does is pick up bugs/faults/quirks that the more experienced users never see because "they never do that"; Sometimes there were good ideas that previously wouldn't have come to us. PGM's wishlists help with that.

Actually, later we also had a couple or so meetings each year with the sales and support guys, where we all just talked about the system. Sometimes things came out in those meetings that people thought were "just silly", that were actually useful to know.

Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
I don't see how any vendor could have a public bug tracking system that wasn't vulnerable to inappropriate entries...


You're right that a free-for-all would be a bad idea, but it would be nice to have an opportunity to see what's been recorded, what if anything is being done about it, what version contains any fix, and/or where the workaround and/or misunderstanding/education data can be found.
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#698823 - 01/16/22 10:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Gordon Scott]
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Mark Hayes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
You're right that a free-for-all would be a bad idea, but it would be nice to have an opportunity to see what's been recorded, what if anything is being done about it, what version contains any fix, and/or where the workaround and/or misunderstanding/education data can be found.

I do wish I could check somewhere to see the status of the "Mac users can't import ABC notation files" bug. As it is, I just have to try again with each new version.


Edited by Mark Hayes (01/17/22 08:10 PM)

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#698859 - 01/16/22 12:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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Pipeline Offline
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#698897 - 01/16/22 02:52 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Hmmm, I wonder if this could be accomplished without PGM's active, on-going participation? Maybe a standard could be agreed upon for titling user reported bug report posts so a simple search would return only those? And maybe ask PGM to add a pinned post with instructions for titling your post along with instructions or a link for searching? And maybe PGM could grant forum admin permissions to a trusted, long-term beta tester to edit titles to maintain consistency, mark as Open, Verified, Resolved, etc.?

Just some thoughts from a calm, bugs-don't-bug-me-so-much-these-days guy!

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#698902 - 01/16/22 03:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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Rustyspoon# Online   content
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JJJ, good thoughts!

"Maybe a standard could be agreed upon for titling user reported bug report posts so a simple search would return only those?"

+1

P.S. "issue" is a popular one.

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#698905 - 01/16/22 03:38 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: JohnJohnJohn]
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Mark Hayes Offline
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Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Hmmm, I wonder if this could be accomplished without PGM's active, on-going participation?

How can you track the status of bug reports without the participation of those whose job it will be to act on them?

A report comes in. Looks like a bug. At some point PG developers may determine it wasn't really a bug, or that it's a bug already fixed internally and scheduled for release next month, or that it's a bug but it will not be fixed until the next major release. Who's going to update the bug report?

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#698906 - 01/16/22 03:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Vincente]
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Cerio Online   content
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An open bug reports subforum / tracking system would bring, IMO, a lot of benefits over the actual old-fashioned system of hidden beta forums and just a few beta testers, which is clearly not working very well.

Musescore, Reaper, and many, many other modern programs are so solid partly because A LOT of users are beta testing those products, and open bug reports and discussion are encouraged by developers and long time users, offering constant feedback about reported issues.

So, once again, +1


Edited by Cerio (01/16/22 03:54 PM)
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#698909 - 01/16/22 03:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Mark Hayes]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Hayes
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Hmmm, I wonder if this could be accomplished without PGM's active, on-going participation?

How can you track the status of bug reports without the participation of those whose job it will be to act on them?

A report comes in. Looks like a bug. At some point PG developers may determine it wasn't really a bug, or that it's a bug already fixed internally and scheduled for release next month, or that it's a bug but it will not be fixed until the next major release. Who's going to update the bug report?

Well, this kinda already happens here when regular forum users reply to folks asking about a bug. You're right that a developer run system would be best but if that isn't possible maybe we can hack something together that would at least cover the more serious issues?

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#698910 - 01/16/22 03:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Does PG Music have track system for user report the bug? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
P.S. "issue" is a popular one.

I like the idea of "issue" instead of "bug" since 1) often it is a user issue or 2) it could be a design choice/compromise. It would be unfair to PGM to label these "bugs" and frankly, unnecessary.

Maybe a user-initiated Issue List would grow to become something PGM values and adopts down the road?

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