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#716451 - 05/11/22 04:27 AM [User Showcase] WE part way there.
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Online   content
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Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Hello Folks,
This is a song I started a couple of days ago.
I've lined up a cellist to play the intro, solo & outro but that'll be a coupe of weeks away.
I've lined up a good guitarist to provide better chord voicings.
This mix has BIAB cello, Piano, violin and drums.
I played guitar (through an ACTONE amp in a box pedal), bass, (through a Behringer BDI21), used eBow on one guitar part in the verses and I triple tracked my croak.
I anticipate replacing the guitars at the very least.

WE draft V2

I've paid attention to suggestions and comments and have applied all I could in this updated mix. It may not remain as it is but it's an application of suggestions, more vocal, punch in the rhythm section, new guitars with different tonality, an arpeggio (such as it is - two notes of the truncated chords in the verse more audible in V2 & V3)and some EQing to give each instrument more of its own space in the stereo image AND I removed the steady strumming guitar.

WE forum camel committee mix

WE forum camel committee mix
The song was written in BIAB and I tracked my parts while playing along to the tracks I'd pulled into Reaper from it.
The CHORD CHART in the DAW plugin is, for me, the best part of the plugin.
I don't have to spend days learning a song when I can simply play along to the bouncing ball - so to speak.
The chart, screen shot & saved, is also a boon for collaboration. There may be a way of saving it as an image that's native to BIAb but I've not discovered that yet.

It began as an exercise writing in a different key...I then decided to work way out of my realm with a sappy/sad song.
Lyrics
When you say we
You don' t mean me
You talk of someone new
And there's nothing I can do.

People stop and ask me
If I'm doing well
But I now dodge their questions
There's nothing I can tell

When you say we
It's not how it should be
Because things have changed
And won't be re-arranged

People stop and ask me
About you and yours
I can't face their questions
I prefer to stay indoors

When you say we
My mind is all at sea
You mean a different two
That's not what we once knew.

People stop and ask me
About you and I
I can't face the answers
I chose to not reply

When you say we
You don' t mean me
You talk of someone new
And there's nothing I can do.

I am interested in comments/critiques/thoughts generally but am particularly interested in ideas about the current, & potential, arrangement of instruments.
Blast away - negativity gives me something to think through if nothing else.


Edited by rayc (05/14/22 03:33 AM)
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"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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#716453 - 05/11/22 04:58 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 09/30/16
Posts: 1629
Loc: Netherlands, Haarlem
Birchwood Offline
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Registered: 09/30/16
Posts: 1629
Loc: Netherlands, Haarlem
Hi Ray,

I'm first to talk about your song.
And I was pleasantly surprised! What an -almost- lovely song you made.
I liked the instruments you chose, especially the cello.
The melody is lovely, the lyrics sad but very well written. I liked the verse:

"When you say we
You don't mean me
You talk of someone new
And there's nothing I can do"

There are a few aspects I want to touch on to: Your vocals were too soft. I would prefer them way more upfront.
What kind of fx you used on the vocals? Although they were hidden a bit, I liked that a lot, like in:

"People stop and ask me
If I'm doing well
But I now dodge their questions
There's nothing I can tell"

But for me they were too soft as well. Here these fx could be used louder. They sound very well.
And why did I say 'almost' at the beginning of my comment? Because you can hear the threat from the start. And that's not what you do in a 'lovely'song. But who cares.

I enjoyed it, Ray!

Hans
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https://soundcloud.com/user-296497130

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#716477 - 05/11/22 07:59 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: Birchwood]
Registered: 10/21/21
Posts: 605
Loc: Versmold - GERMANY
PROJECT M Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/21/21
Posts: 605
Loc: Versmold - GERMANY
Hi Ray
Really cool made
The song has a very interesting background track
Is very well done
The vocals fit perfectly into it
Very good work
Many greetings
Andi ;-)

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#716523 - 05/11/22 06:22 PM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 6645
Loc: Edmonton, Ab, Canada
Scott C Offline
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Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 6645
Loc: Edmonton, Ab, Canada
Good start on the song. This will develop into an excellent piece. Well done

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#716530 - 05/11/22 06:45 PM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 3810
Rustyspoon# Offline
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 3810
Ray,
Very cool tune. Has a very personal / intimate feel, if one can say that. Would be interesting to hear how it develops. I like the vocals on it a lot, and compared to your other drafts, they are well positioned in the mix., I would up them just very slightly. EBow, seems like a fun toy. Thank you for sharing.

Misha.

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#716538 - 05/11/22 10:56 PM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 5119
Loc: Sacramento, California
Hi, Ray.

Harmonies are interesting.

The vocals parts step on each other in places, making it to make out the lyric. Some of the lines start clear, but then fade into the background and are soft and hard to make out.

It sounds like you're trying to bury the vocals, and that's a big nope for me. Put 'em front and center.

Then again, I see others on the thread who disagree, so... laugh
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My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#716544 - 05/12/22 12:05 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: Birchwood]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Originally Posted By: Birchwood
Hi Ray,

pleasantly surprised! What an -almost- lovely song you made.
I liked the instruments you chose, especially the cello.
The melody is lovely, the lyrics sad but very well written.
Your vocals were too soft. I would prefer them way more upfront.
What kind of fx you used on the vocals?
the threat from the start.
Hans

Thanks Hans,
I expect the real cello part to REALLY up the game.
Lyrically this was easy - I started with the 1st line and the 1st two stanzas came very quickly. After that is as case of building the lyric with variations on those two. Quick n easy.
IF I find a better singer I'll push them forward a little.
Vocal FX...compression, (Deathcore to even things a little and add some grime) EQ, (boosted the weak freqs & cut the heavy ones) & sent to a reverb bus...nothing else. Though the vocals are triple tracked in unison except for the harmony spots so that would provide some natural "chorus" treatment.
Threat? Ominous, sad, pathetic as well I hope.
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rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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#716545 - 05/12/22 12:05 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: PROJECT M]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Originally Posted By: PROJECT M
Hi Ray
Really cool made
The song has a very interesting background track
Is very well done
The vocals fit perfectly into it
Very good work
Many greetings
Andi ;-)

Thanks Andi,
I hope it progresses as well as it started.
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rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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#716546 - 05/12/22 12:06 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: Scott C]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Originally Posted By: Scott C
Good start on the song. This will develop into an excellent piece. Well done

Thanks Scott,
particularly for the optimistic prediction.
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rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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#716547 - 05/12/22 12:07 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Ray,
Very cool tune. Has a very personal / intimate feel, if one can say that. Would be interesting to hear how it develops. I like the vocals on it a lot, and compared to your other drafts, they are well positioned in the mix., I would up them just very slightly. EBow, seems like a fun toy. Thank you for sharing.

Misha.

"they are well positioned in the mix" thanks & "up them just very slightly." I shall try.
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rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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#716548 - 05/12/22 12:12 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
rayc Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 04/13/16
Posts: 4430
Loc: Cooran Queensland Australia
Originally Posted By: dcuny
Hi, Ray.
Harmonies are interesting.
The vocals parts step on each other in places, making it to make out the lyric. Some of the lines start clear, but then fade into the background and are soft and hard to make out.
It sounds like you're trying to bury the vocals, and that's a big nope for me. Put 'em front and center.
Then again, I see others on the thread who disagree, so... laugh

Thanks dcuny,
The harmonies shouldn't be interesting as they form the triad. I must have goofed and thrown in something oblique or jazz.
I had a listen after reading your comment about buried vocals/tapering off - I don't hear that but will return to the mix to investigate.
I'm not burying the vocals intentionally but don't hear the songs as being the sort that is vocalist with backing like my old 78s.
Differing opinion is excellent - it gives me cause to check and review.
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rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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#716557 - 05/12/22 03:06 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 4344
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
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Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 4344
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Has the potential of being a good song, Ray. I'm looking forward to hearing how it develops.

Vocal sounds good, initially I thought it was too low in the mix, but as the song progressed it seemed to fit better. Not very helpful I know! eek

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#716568 - 05/12/22 04:54 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
AudioTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Ray, an interesting song with intriguing lyrics.

This could easily be something from the 'Pet Shop Boys'.

Perhaps as a suggestion you could edit the start to take out the 2 bar count-in, which is ideally not part of the song.

I also think the vocal could come forward slightly in the mix.

It includes an interesting ending. Somehow there's and anticipation that it will resolve to a different chord, but leaves some suspense instead.
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#716586 - 05/12/22 06:14 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 05/05/18
Posts: 1413
Loc: United Kingdom
musician17 Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/05/18
Posts: 1413
Loc: United Kingdom
Good job! I like it ... sad, soft and sensitive. My kind of song! :-)

I, too, would have appreciated the vocals just a tad more "in front" ... otherwise the very tune gets lost, and that would be a pity, right? Enjoyed the (as others have said) suspensful nature of the ending, too. Nice! :-)
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#716590 - 05/12/22 06:27 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 1917
Loc: Dallas, PA, USA
BabuMusic Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/27/19
Posts: 1917
Loc: Dallas, PA, USA
Very cool lining up a cellist. Did you write specific parts for her? Sad lyrics. Very sad not to be part of the WE. I really like your vocals, Ray. When you say they are triple tracked, you don't mean 3 takes, right? How do you process them differently, or is it just for panning to make it fuller?
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Babu Music on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLDrsXTXfShgnGalQZ0ElQw
Me on SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/marty-straub

My website: http://martystraub.com/

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#716591 - 05/12/22 06:31 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 06/27/20
Posts: 117
Loc: United States
Dewey_MI Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 06/27/20
Posts: 117
Loc: United States
Great concept and unique angle to the hook, Ray!

If you want this to be more commercially accepted, you may consider chopping a measure at the end of each verse line. This would take out the space and, of course, decrease the song length. Commercial songs are moving to 3 to 3:30 minutes these days.

BYW, love the cello

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#716593 - 05/12/22 06:41 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 6315
Loc: North Carolina
David Snyder Offline
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Registered: 08/29/14
Posts: 6315
Loc: North Carolina

Ray,

I really like the chord progression and the song itself. Great lyrics. This sounds like a worktape to me in terms of mix.

A lot of the stuff is in the same dynamic range and even has the same sound, so it is getting mushed. The backing track sounds muffled, and almost like one track--not a mix.

I would get the bass and drums sounding punchy and solid, then add in new guitars, as you say, that have totally different dynamic ranges to make the song more crisp. Maybe an electric AND an acoustic, or something.

Anyway, you are definitely off to a good start!!

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#716623 - 05/12/22 10:03 AM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 5897
Loc: Originally Missouri ... Now Al...
Al-David Offline
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Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 5897
Loc: Originally Missouri ... Now Al...
Hi Ray ...

I like the bones of this song. I don't typically offer a lot of commentary of a song still in progress with significant developments still in waiting. I feel the composer should finish it out as he/she feels it best occurs. But I don't mind offering an opinion on the potential. I think this one has a lot.

Good luck with the song's progress. Anticipate a nice listen when it's finished and polished. Good luck with it ...

Alan
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#716645 - 05/12/22 12:56 PM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 10208
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 10208
Loc: Florida
ray,

Listening to V2 (missed the first one).

LOVE the vocal. Especially the sound at "If I'm doing well" and "There's nothing I can tell". Tight and right on top of the main vocal - actually sounds generated - very "today" sound.

Drums sound good. Cello bits are cool.

The guitars sound good. But I thought they were a bit too "smooth"... the steady strumming.
Had the thought that some kind of odd, signature arpeggiated guitar (and/or synth?) might work.
I could certainly be wrong about that though. Just a thought.

I like what you've got so far.

fj

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#716661 - 05/12/22 03:01 PM [User Showcase] Re: WE part way there. [Re: rayc]
Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3622
Loc: The Netherlands
RnAM Offline
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Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3622
Loc: The Netherlands
Ray,

I was pleasantly surprised by the 80s like vocal in this.

In the final mix I would leave out the BIAB intro ticks and make your vocal a little bit hot and bright (a little bit muddy now).

Rob
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