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You're using a rather loose definition of the word "music."
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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[/quote]Can you name a song that has a similar feel? If so type it in the song filter.[/quote]
Yes indeed, more good advice!!
I tried to learn the guitar way back in the day but gave up, I think it may be too late for me now, but I feel BIAB will be a big boon once I get the hang of it...
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Can you name a song that has a similar feel? If so type it in the song filter.[/quote] Yes indeed, more good advice!! I tried to learn the guitar way back in the day but gave up, I think it may be too late for me now, but I feel BIAB will be a big boon once I get the hang of it... [/quote] You are never to old to learn an instrument. I was around 71 when I started to learn my wind controller.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
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Most songs have 3 basic chords... which are the 1 the 4 and the 5... And this is exactly where the divide begins, Herb. Let me play "newbie" for a minute. "The 1 the 4 and the 5 of what?" Your answer would correctly be "The 1, 4 and 5 of the scale." "What's a scale?" I have discovered that trying to explain theory to people with no music background is similar to having some little green alien drop to the earth from Mars and try to teach him about football or baseball. There is SO MUCH implied knowledge involved. You and I and whoever else is in this thread KNOW 1-4-5. (We even know about 6 minor!) My best male pal Andy has like 6 guitars and all he can play is the intro to Smoke On The Water. He asked me to try to teach him. I said "I can't. I can't teach you anything about guitar until you know enough about music to know what a half step is. And a 3rd. And a 5th. I can't teach you about the guitar neck until you can relate that one fret equals a half step, and know what steps are." And so forth. I sat him down with a guitar on his shoulder and had him put a finger on any fret he wanted. I then played that note on the keyboard and told him to move down one fret and showed him the correlation of that fret to the keyboard. I spent an hour with him. For the whole hour I saw the same the same look on his face that you'd see when if you tried to explain long division to your dog. Now, I am a horrible teacher under any conditions, but for someone with absolutely no ear to know when music moves up or down, major being "happy" and minor being "sad"... I can't do it. The is as frustrating to me as I imagine it would be to try and explain to someone who can't see what "red" is. When I try to teach music I find myself saying things like "How can you not know that??" I don't know the OP here or their level of musical knowledge. If 1-4-5 is beyond the scope, advising them is going to be difficult.
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Kanye West would big to differ. He bought half of Wyoming learning how to play music on a computer.  Music? 8 bar Garage Band loops with the vulgar, racist, sexist lyrics spoken over them? If Life Is Hard, Music Is Hard too....
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
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I have discovered that trying to explain theory to people with no music background is similar to having some little green alien drop to the earth from Mars and try to teach him about football or baseball. There is SO MUCH implied knowledge involved. You and I and whoever else is in this thread KNOW 1-4-5. (We even know about 6 minor!)
I think this is very important. As someone who, at 60, started learning to play piano I often struggled to make sense of things, partly because there is so much that's not just new and unfamiliar; quite a bit does sound alien. It's one of the givens in music education, that the educators already know this stuff and even simplifying some to the very basic indeed can still go over the head. I remember watching videos where something simple like 1-4-5 was being shown, but I didn't know where to look, so I'd miss it. Rewind, try again, miss it again. It's better with a keyboard graphic, but even then, in the early stages, recognising what was the note would be hard. But this is really easy stuff and I'm far from dumb. If I can struggle, then so can almost anyone. I know there are people who can just hear a tune and they can play it, but very often those people grew in childhood with musicians around them. They learned music theory like they learned to speak. Some of us never had that early stimulus. Music is another language and it's unlike any other language I know.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
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................
My best male pal Andy has like 6 guitars and all he can play is the intro to Smoke On The Water. He asked me to try to teach him. ..................... I chuckled when I read those lines. I had a friend that had some very expensive top of the line Fenders and Martens and he couldn't play the into to Smoke On The Water! I tried to teach him but he just didn't get it. He had a great ear for music and in fact could point out spots in our music that only he heard and he was right most all of the time. But when it came to playing forget about it.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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C'mon folks, get back to helping the OP.
He's tried playing & it didn't work out. BIAB is made for just such a case isn't it?
As to what is & isn't music that's a matter of taste, culture, experience, history and training/programming.
Most folk still don't accept atonalism as "music" and I'm sure Schoenberg wouldn't have been keen on New Country, (is anyone?).
The ear versus the fingers - remember that BIAB is also a GREAT tool for those with problems processing physical movement...Stephen Hawkins couldn't type but he could certainly write.
My old man has a good ear but by the time he bought a guitar, (he was 56), he wasn't agile/subtle enough with his hands to make it happen. He can hear what is right n wrong according to his musical background/listening though.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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And this is exactly where the divide begins, Herb. Let me play "newbie" for a minute.
"The 1 the 4 and the 5 of what?"
Your answer would correctly be "The 1, 4 and 5 of the scale."
"What's a scale?"
I have discovered that trying to explain theory to people with no music background is similar to having some little green alien drop to the earth from Mars and try to teach him about football or baseball. There is SO MUCH implied knowledge involved. You and I and whoever else is in this thread KNOW 1-4-5. (We even know about 6 minor!)
My best male pal Andy has like 6 guitars and all he can play is the intro to Smoke On The Water. He asked me to try to teach him. I said "I can't. I can't teach you anything about guitar until you know enough about music to know what a half step is. And a 3rd. And a 5th. I can't teach you about the guitar neck until you can relate that one fret equals a half step, and know what steps are." And so forth. I sat him down with a guitar on his shoulder and had him put a finger on any fret he wanted. I then played that note on the keyboard and told him to move down one fret and showed him the correlation of that fret to the keyboard. I spent an hour with him. For the whole hour I saw the same the same look on his face that you'd see when if you tried to explain long division to your dog.
No offense, but I think you went about this exactly backwards. What your friend needed to know was not intervals and all that. What he needed to know was how to play the rest of the song. He asked you what time it was and you tried to tell him how to build a clock
Last edited by Byron Dickens; 07/21/22 02:28 PM.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Hi Dev
I don't know a lot about Band In A Box. I do have some understanding of music and can play guitar a little.
Here is some simple stuff you can do. Each one of those little rectangles you see in BIAB represents one measure.
Confine your first experiences to only four measures. Type in C,G,F,C in those first four little rectangles. It really does not matter if you understand why I would ask you to use those chords or even what a chord is. The fact that it is a 1,4,5 does not matter. The fact that it is in the key of C does not matter.
Play that little what we call a "chord progression" out with different styles and go figure out how to loop it so you can really listen to it play over and over. Figure out how to change the speed, which we call tempo.
Those are very easy to learn things to do in BIAB. This will teach you a couple of things. One, how to do some simple stuff with BIAB and what different styles actually sound like, and two what one of the most common "chord progressions" in music really sounds like. It will train both your mind and your ear.
After you do that for a bit I would be glad to help you get to the next step in figuring out a little more about how to build a simple song in BIAB.
It is best to confine your style choice to the sort of music you like to listen to in the beginning.
You can make songs using only a computer and BIAB software. It is done every day. That may in the future lead you to other adventures in music like learning to play something.
Best of luck with your learning and be assured there are a lot of nice folks here who will be glad to help you on your way.
One of the issues you will run into is that there are a zillion choices of things to do with BIAB. Best to limit things in the very beginning.
Billy
EDIT: I went back and read all your posts again. You may or may not ever find the exact "feel" in BIAB you hear in your head. At least you have some better ideas on how to look for it. It is very unlikely anyone using only BIAB can write a song and have BIAB play out exactly what they hear in their head. It is much less frustrating in the beginning to make your ideas conform to BIAB that trying to force BIAB to conform to your ideas.
You can without too much effort generate music with BIAB. Like any tool it has limitations. It also takes time to learn to use.
Last edited by Planobilly; 07/21/22 05:19 PM.
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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Hi Dev
I don't know a lot about Band In A Box. I do have some understanding of music and can play guitar a little.
Here is some simple stuff you can do. Each one of those little rectangles you see in BIAB represents one measure.
Confine your first experiences to only four measures. Type in C,G,F,C in those first four little rectangles. It really does not matter if you understand why I would ask you to use those chords or even what a chord is. The fact that it is a 1,4,5 does not matter. The fact that it is in the key of C does not matter.
Play that little what we call a "chord progression" out with different styles and go figure out how to loop it so you can really listen to it play over and over. Figure out how to change the speed, which we call tempo.
Those are very easy to learn things to do in BIAB. This will teach you a couple of things. One, how to do some simple stuff with BIAB and what different styles actually sound like, and two what one of the most common "chord progressions" in music really sounds like. It will train both your mind and your ear.
After you do that for a bit I would be glad to help you get to the next step in figuring out a little more about how to build a simple song in BIAB.
It is best to confine your style choice to the sort of music you like to listen to in the beginning.
You can make songs using only a computer and BIAB software. It is done every day. That may in the future lead you to other adventures in music like learning to play something.
Best of luck with your learning and be assured there are a lot of nice folks here who will be glad to help you on your way.
One of the issues you will run into is that there are a zillion choices of things to do with BIAB. Best to limit things in the very beginning.
Billy
EDIT: I went back and read all your posts again. You may or may not ever find the exact "feel" in BIAB you hear in your head. At least you have some better ideas on how to look for it. It is very unlikely anyone using only BIAB can write a song and have BIAB play out exactly what they hear in their head. It is much less frustrating in the beginning to make your ideas conform to BIAB that trying to force BIAB to conform to your ideas.
You can without too much effort generate music with BIAB. Like any tool it has limitations. It also takes time to learn to use. First off, I have to say I`m so impressed with, and grateful for the amount of help I`ve received here, this support really helps with learning as much as possible about BIAB, sticking with it and trying out all the good advice I`ve been given. I`m finding the more I "play around" with it the more I`m beginning to understand, not just about BIAB but about music, though I have to say I need a little more time to get my head round 1,4,5, but again, theres so many good videos around these days. I`ve listened to a lot of songs posted here, and they all have that really professional sound, they all sound "interesting", whereas, for now anyway, mine sound contrived and sterile. Its a learning curve, but its a fun learning curve...
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I will try to take the mystery out of the 1,4,5 concept for you. Here is a graphic of a piano keyboard. I am using the piano because it is visual and easy to understand.  The note shown in the middle is called "middle C. Notice there are both white keys and black. For the moment, disregard the black keys. Starting with the C note, using only white keys, we can form something called a C scale. The letters in a C scale are C,D,E,F,G,A,B, and then it starts over. We can also number those letters. C=1,D=2,E=3,F=4,G=5,A=6,B=7. So notice that C is 1, F is 4, and G is 5. So that is where the 1,4,5 comes from. We call that a one, four, five progression. It is the most common progression in music and thousands of songs have been constructed using that progression. There are three ways to put that in writing. One, Four, Five or 1,4,5 or I, IV, V. The last being the way you would normally see it written in musical terms. There is a function in BIAB that lets you change the key. If you type a 1,4,5 into BIAB and tell it to change the key it will show you the letter names of any 1,4,5 in whatever key you choose. This is one of the most basic and fundamental concepts of music theory. This idea of letters and their corresponding numbers is how we define progressions, chords, and many other things for example. There is no absolute need to understand any of this. At the end of the day, music is about sound. If it sounds good to you, that is all that really matters. Music theory is just a way that has been developed to be able to communicate musical ideas in a somewhat standard way. Any chord progression can be used but not all chord progressions will sound good to you. So...here are some definitions of things being discussed. Musical scale...any graduated sequence of notes, tones, or intervals. An example is the C scale. Chord...A chord is the layering of several tones played simultaneously. Tones are sounds produced by depressing the keys on a piano for example. An example is a C chord comprised of the first, third, and fifth notes of a C scale. Chord Progression...In a musical composition, a chord progression is a succession of chords. An example is a one, four, five. Key...in music theory, the key of a piece is the group of pitches, or scale, that forms the basis of a musical composition. An example is the key of C. The deifications I have given you are the most simplistic I could come up with and there is more to learn. I hope I have described all this in a way you can easily understand. Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment
If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
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I'll just add a little to PianoBilly's excellent explanation.
In a major key, which is what the C scale is in the explanation, there happens to be three major chords, three minor chords, and one other chord(*).
It also happens that the three major chords are that 1, 4 and 5; I, IV and V.
The three minor chords are 2, 3 and 6 and in the Roman numerals notation, they're usually written lower case: ii, iii and vi. Usually, but not always. So the 'sixth' that's been mentioned elsewhere in this thread is a minor chord.
(*) The last chord is "diminished" and slightly different. Something for later if you don't already know that. It's normally written as vii followed by a 'degree' symbol.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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Dev, a lot of information has been given but maybe you are not at this part of the music theory learning curve yet. I would suggest you get the Music Theory for Dummies book: https://www.amazon.com/Music-Theory-Dummies-Career-Education-dp-1119575524/dp/1119575524/ref=dp_ob_title_bkIt will start you out at square in put things into an organized order. I have used Dummies books (I do not like that Dummies name, beginners would be a better thing for a title) a number of times and I have found them to be very good.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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There is no absolute need to understand any of this. At the end of the day, music is about sound. If it sounds good to you, that is all that really matters. Music theory is just a way that has been developed to be able to communicate musical ideas in a somewhat standard way. Any chord progression can be used but not all chord progressions will sound good to you.
Bingo. Music theory is a description, not a prescription. It is not a set of "rules" that one must "obey" in order to write "proper" music. It is a way do explain how the composer put together a piece of music. Rather than jumping in to theory right away, it is a much better idea to pick up an instrument and start learning to play some music. Learn a few easy songs. Once you learn a few songs and start making the connection between your hands and your ears, then you can start learning the theory. Music theory is useless without a context. Many, many rock and folk songs, for instance, are built on a bVI - bVII - i progression, but that is absolutely meaningless until you have that sound in your ears. Once you learn several of those tunes and are familiar with that sound, when someone explains what bVI - bVII - i means the light bulb comes on!
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Music theory ... It is not a set of "rules" that one must "obey" in order to write "proper" music. It is a way do explain how the composer put together a piece of music. ... and it is one of the primary ways we guide BiaB to do what we want.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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Just this week I decided to sign up for Guy Michelmore’s (ThinkSpaceEducation) “how to write music course”. (I like the way Guy does things). He mentions (somewhere) the need to really understand music theory and/or have the ability to read music is not really required but can offer some advantages.
His main thing seems to be start with a simple “motif”, just 4 or 5 notes then build up from there. Do your stuff in a quiet secluded area and not be discouraged. You can find many of Guy’s videos on YouTube where he demonstrates the process. He also has a free taster course.
Guy seems to do stuff very quickly but he does tear up as many lines as he keeps. Sure a lot of what he does applies to orchestration but it is very easy to apply the same skills to playing live or BIAB or whatever.
ThinkSpaceEducation.com offer several “free” mini courses on composing and music theory. These are well worth looking at.
My thoughts
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 07/22/22 12:30 PM.
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Not really, Byron. Every time music comes up in conversation he says "I really want to learn how to play." I have never and will never teach somebody "songs". I am happy to try and teach them "music", but if you want to learn from me you learn about the WHY rather than just the result. He can play that intro, but when it hits the verse he has no idea what to do, because he doesn't know notes, which make up chords, which make up intervals, usually around the circle of 5ths.
Nothing is ever gained through shortcuts and "you do it for me" mentality. Trying to teach him about 3rds, 5ths... That's intervals, no?
If you walk up to a stranger who knows nothing about music and tell him that a major chord is 1-3-5, he won't know what a chord even is, what "major" means, and think 1-3-5 are just the first 3 prime numbers. It is impossible to teach with implied knowledge like knowing what 1-3-5 means unless somebody knows about scales. I am not saying yo need to know Dorian from Phrygian from Aeolian mode, but geeze, if you are going to bother learning about a subject, ANY subject, then learn it.
Last edited by eddie1261; 07/22/22 12:52 PM.
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Not really, Byron. Every time music comes up in conversation he says "I really want to learn how to play." I have never and will never teach somebody "songs". I am happy to try and teach them "music", but if you want to learn from me you learn about the WHY rather than just the result. He can play that intro, but when it hits the verse he has no idea what to do, because he doesn't know notes, which make up chords, which make up intervals, usually around the circle of 5ths.
Nothing is ever gained through shortcuts and "you do it for me" mentality. Trying to teach him about 3rds, 5ths... That's intervals, no?
If you walk up to a stranger who knows nothing about music and tell him that a major chord is 1-3-5, he won't know what a chord even is, what "major" means, and think 1-3-5 are just the first 3 prime numbers. It is impossible to teach with implied knowledge like knowing what 1-3-5 means unless somebody knows about scales. I am not saying yo need to know Dorian from Phrygian from Aeolian mode, but geeze, if you are going to bother learning about a subject, ANY subject, then learn it. Bull. How does he know how to play the intro? Isn't it made up of notes & (partial) chords? Jimi Hendrix didn't know all that either.
Last edited by Byron Dickens; 07/22/22 02:40 PM.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Dev, Stare at a keyboard in a music store. It does not have to be expensive. Most any keyboard will do. Put your left hand pinky on the C below middle C and play these notes up in a row, playing all white keys and skipping none. When you run out of fingers on your left hand, pick up with your right thumb. C D E F G A B C. Also known as Root (1), 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, Root Now with your left hand pinky on that lower C, add in the E with your middle finger (that is the third, C is the 1). Also add your thumb to the G, the 5th. That is the C major chord triad. Play it several times. Listen to the beauty. Play this chord with your left hand. Later you will learn to add melody notes with your right hand, but that is for another day. Now take that SAME SHAPE and move the whole thing up by one key. That is D minor. The second chord. (Minor second.) D F A Move up one more key. That is E minor. The minor third. (In chord theory.) E G B Move up one more. That is F. The fourth. F A C Move again. That is G. The fifth. G B D Move again. A minor. The minor 6th. A C E Move again, playing B, D, F. That is B diminished. (The triad.) Move one more. You are back at C. C E G. Stare at your hands while you play these chords. All of music is in there, it's just key changes and accidentals from there...but most songwriters use little more than that. Try it. You will fall in love. I promise.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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