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#725574 - 07/27/22 07:53 AM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
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Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 8
Loc: Denver, CO
Newbie
Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 8
Loc: Denver, CO
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Hi All,
I have quite a bit of experience with BIAB in live performance with prior versions in years past. It has worked well for me.
Previously, I have DISABLED Load/Save Volume with Songs (in Preferences); Then I set the individual Instrument volume levels (e.g., Bass & Drums) in the Mixer and just leave them. That seems to have worked in the past, but now with BIAB 2022 each new song defaults back to equal volume settings for all instrument tracks in the Mixer.
I'm using Real Tracks/Drums exclusively. Am I missing a setting?
Thanks!
_________________________
DavidH
Denver, CO
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#725598 - 07/27/22 09:09 AM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: CityRat]
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Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 8
Loc: Denver, CO
Newbie
Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 8
Loc: Denver, CO
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Ok, the Chat support person just told me "no, you can't do that." So there you go.
So the workaround(s) might be:
1) set the volume levels for each track/each song and save/load them every time.
2) In the Preferences for RealDrums or RealTracks I could set a default global volume reduction (e.g., RealDrums always -2dB)
_________________________
DavidH
Denver, CO
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#726015 - 07/30/22 06:39 AM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: CityRat]
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 8350
Veteran
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 8350
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Personally, If I was going to use BB tracks for live performance, to simplify the process, I would simply export the song with everything set the way I wanted to a WAV file and use a WAV player that I liked.
I was with a prison ministry for a while in one of the churches I was attending and we would go in and my job was to lead the music. We carried, by necessity, the bare minimum of equipment. My music tracks were exported from my DAW as mp3 and I had them in the music lists in my phone. Plugged that into the small PA and off we went. If I was gigging at clubs and such places, I would have used a similar method but with a laptop for convenience.... but with pre-recorded tracks ready to go.
If there's one thing I learned from all the years I played with bands, as a solo act, and in the other assorted musical things I did live, it is that the simpler you make it, the better off you will be.
As a side note.... I saw a band in Myrtle Beach many decades ago. They were 2 guys, and a computer running Cakewalk Midi powering a bunch of synth modules. Everything in that show depended on the one computer running MIDI flawlessly. This was way back in the early Windows days.... like maybe 3.1 or so. At every single break, one of them was working on the computer. Now I'll admit.... it sounded really good, but they could have simply recorded the tracks and life would have been even simpler. I asked the singer/guitarist if they were using backing tracks and he said no. Everything was midi controlled. Even the vocal harmonizer and the guitar processor switching rhythm to lead, and the lights..... all controlled by the midi from one computer.
It's a case of "can you?" yes you can...... Should you? Well, that's up to you.
Edited by Guitarhacker (07/30/22 06:40 AM)
_________________________
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. As the sword chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer.
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#726016 - 07/30/22 06:48 AM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: CityRat]
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 21105
Loc: Mi., USA
Veteran
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 21105
Loc: Mi., USA
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Yeah, we did that.
But it wasn't even a computer, it was a Roland workstation driving everything you mentioned, including the lights.
Running MIDI isn't much of a challenge, I'd still do it.
Running multitrack audio files is a whole 'nother animal.
We brought a computer along to 'record' the shows, but that was it. The show wasn't run from it.
If it stuttered during the recording that's no big deal; we were the only ones going to listen to it and analyze it anyway.
Eight subgroup outs from the mixer to a 1010 interface and into Powertracks.
Ahh, those were the days .. I wish we'd kept some of those files to look back and laugh at
_________________________
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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#726022 - 07/30/22 07:03 AM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: Guitarhacker]
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Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 907
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Expert
Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 907
Loc: Hampshire, UK
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It's a case of "can you?" yes you can...... Should you? Well, that's up to you. That's been pretty much one of my mainstay rules: "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should".
Edited by Gordon Scott (07/30/22 07:03 AM)
_________________________
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 10; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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#726078 - 07/30/22 12:34 PM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: CityRat]
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Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 500
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Journeyman
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 500
Loc: Sonoran Desert
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GuitarHacker makes some solid points.
my $.02
1. Don't use BIAB for live performance. You can do it, numerous veterans on this site do, but there are easier approaches. Software available for gigging with tracks is simply better than BIAB. Plus they run on your phone or tablet if you choose.
Use .wav, flac, mp3 or whatever format the software you select supports.
2. Keep it simple. No orchestral arrangements allowed. I mostly use bass, drums and 1 chording instrument (piano,b3,accordion,etc). I mix the keys very low in the output.
Its mostly just there to help me if I get lost on the changes.
A couple of things I learned from this forum:
Pan the bass hard one side to provide a crude (but effective) eq should you encounter a really boomy room.
Use mp3Gain (or something like it) to make sure output of all your tracks is consistent. Extremely important.
I play everything from Cannonball Adderly to Frank Zappa at my gigs and rarely adjust anything for sound once I run a tune or two at soundcheck.
Edited by mrgeeze (07/30/22 01:13 PM)
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#726243 - 08/01/22 09:36 AM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: mrgeeze]
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Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 302
Loc: San Diego County
Journeyman
Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 302
Loc: San Diego County
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Good points mrgeeze. I've been using BIAB for backing tracks for nearly 20 years. I now keep it very simple. Wav files on a tablet played through my Boze L1. I know there's been discussion in the past on whether or not to use the ear phone jack on a tablet, but I've had no problems. Also, I agree about keeping the arrangements simple. With all the wonderful Real Tracks at our disposal it's tempting to create complex arrangements, but as the years have gone by, I now tend to rely mostly on bass, drums or percussion, and usually one of two guitars (usually acoustic) at the most. For me this tends to work well with my instrumental electric guitar, as it strikes a nice balance and doesn't sound too cluttered.
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#726373 - 08/02/22 02:04 PM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: CityRat]
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Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 782
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Journeyman
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 782
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
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My 2¢
I bounce to mono for live performance from my iPad. I do not believe in stereo PA except in small rooms, and then, only for background music between sets. People to the far L or R don’t get to hear the mix.
The Apple Music players are cumbersome for live playback. TwistedWave for iOS lets me set up a play list and change it at will. Track loading and playback are instantaneous.
Having lost an iPad motherboard from a bumped plug in the headphone jack, I’ll never, ever, ever plug anything into it again. There are simple, heavy duty Lightning to Headphone adapters from Philips and UGREEN that are far more rugged than the Apple products. My headphone jack has a piece of clear, waterproof tape covering it nowadays.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Audiophile, 18 Core iMac Pro/4TB/128GB Monterey; M1 Air; 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicProX
Finale 27, Dorico 4, Encore 5.0.7, SmartScore Pro 64 Notion 6, Overture 5
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#726411 - 08/02/22 07:51 PM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: CityRat]
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Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 500
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Journeyman
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 500
Loc: Sonoran Desert
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I use iOS on either a phone or a pad. 320kbps mono mp3s.
Anytune Pro is my software of choice for track player. Among its many features is the ability to sync all my set lists to All my devices from my Mac in the studio over the internet/ cloud.
I’ve used digital out lighting usb, headphone out on an older iPad and Bluetooth. I carry cable for every possibility but increasingly I use Bluetooth.
It’s just easier.
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#726727 - 08/05/22 09:39 AM
[Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production]
Re: Setting Instrument Levels for Live Performance
[Re: Mike Halloran]
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 8350
Veteran
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 8350
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My 2¢
I bounce to mono for live performance from my iPad. I do not believe in stereo PA except in small rooms, and then, only for background music between sets. People to the far L or R don’t get to hear the mix.
Agreed 100% . Many of the bands I played in and with through the years had stereo boards but never ran a stereo mix for that very reason. I don't recall the name of the"professional" band we went to hear in concert, but they were running a stereo mix on the PA and it was really irritating to not be able to hear the guitar player that night. I could see him playing and taking solos but couldn't hear a single note from him due to our location close to the sage on one side.
_________________________
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. As the sword chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer.
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