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#726571 - 08/04/22 05:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Guide/target tones Generator
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 806
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Brille Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 806
Loc: Berlin, Germany
I don't know if such a feature has been requested before (or if it's already possible and I just haven't discovered it yet):
I would like to have a simple function that would allow me to generate a melody line over the chords of a song from guide tones - i.e. only alternating the 3 and the 7 of a chord - adapted to the beat and chord change respectively as half notes for whole bar chord changes or as quarter notes for half bar chord changes.
This would certainly help many users learn to improvise over jazz standards.


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Edited by Brille (08/06/22 07:18 AM)
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#726581 - 08/04/22 06:52 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Guide tones Generator [Re: Brille]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 23659
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 23659
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Sometimes I do this manually on complex jazz big band charts when I’m a guest soloist. It helps me hit the ‘right’ or ‘essential’ note when I don’t really know the chord progression by memory yet. I just did this in a concert last week. It’s a useful technique that I could see would be helpful in BIAB.

+1
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BIAB 2022 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Swam horns, Audition, Notion 7; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & A5X monitors

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#726617 - 08/04/22 10:49 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Guide tones Generator [Re: Brille]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 8773
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 8773
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
What is the expectation for guides tones to work with a song having four chords per bar? Are guide tones useful for songs in 3/4 time? Are guide tones just a "jazz thing" or are they useful when practicing music from other genres?

+++ THIS +++ website suggests 10 guide tone patterns. So would having just the single pattern suggested by Brille be enough?

Note, I'm not for or against at this stage. I haven't heard of guide tones so I need to know more.
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#726637 - 08/04/22 12:45 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Guide tones Generator [Re: Brille]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 23659
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 23659
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, that link shows what I think is being requested here. The link gives simpler examples.

I realize this won’t apply to many here, but if you work with contemporary big band jazz charts, some current composers / arrangers seem to have adopted a bad habit of over-writing the chord progression. I play the jazz trumpet chair and see this a lot. I look at the chart, say to myself ‘What were they thinking’, and analyze and rewrite the chord progression to leave only what’s important. You don’t want to blow over three different chords per measure in an uptempo jazz waltz - that’s just stupid. Then I identify any ‘must hit’ note and write it in. This might be a #9 or a b9 or the 13th or 11th, for example.

Of course, everyone composes songs differently and the more usual way is to start with a melody and harmonize that. However, I often write a chord progression first and then improvise a bit to find the ‘right’ melody notes, and construct the full melody from that. So this Wishlist request makes good sense.
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#726685 - 08/05/22 01:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Guide tones Generator [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 806
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Brille Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 806
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Jim,
Basically it is correct, there are different guide/target tone concepts, but the 3-7 concept (possibly extended by #/b option tones) is sufficient for playing solos. With the third and the seventh, the core notes of each chord are described as targets - this gives a good basis to build up your own solos with then some complementary notes. In addition, chord extensions (like #9) are often relevant, because they are usually also significant tones of the original composed melody of the song.
I could think that it might be possible to create a custom Soloist file in Soloist Maker that does just that - but I'm not familiar with it - and I don't see any relevant options in the Soloist Editor input screen either. In addition, although many parameters can be set in Soloist maker, the result is rather random. The controls are also rather tricky to use.
A simple button would be nice: "Generate 3-7-Lines on Soloist track" – may be with an option "Use #/b chord extensions".
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Biab/RB latest build, German Language Pak, Win 10/64 Pro, 1 TB SSD, 32 GB RAM. Notation SW Finale, StaffPad, SmartsScore – Playing Double Bass, Guitar, Piano

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#726758 - 08/05/22 04:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Guide tones Generator [Re: Brille]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 8773
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 8773
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Brille and Matt,

Since there can be multiple guide tone patterns what do you think of the idea to having "build custom Guide Tone pattern on Soloist track" and "load custom Guide Tone pattern on Soloist track" selections in the Soloist menu located at the top of the screen?

As I envision it, invoking the "build custom Guide Tone pattern on Soloist track" selection would open a two bar piano roll window. The two bar piano roll window would be used to (1) enter a two bar guide tone pattern and (2) select a MIDI patch to be used during playback.

Invoking "load custom Guide Tones pattern on Soloist track" allows the user to load a previously saved Guide Tone pattern onto the Soloist track.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2022 BiaB (923) RB (Build 4) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#726774 - 08/05/22 05:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: Guide tones Generator [Re: Brille]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 23659
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 23659
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Jim, sure.

+1
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