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#727630 - 08/14/22 07:40 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker [Resolved]
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 2234
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
Veteran
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 2234
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
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Have never seen this problem. Take a look at the attached pic.
If I just use the song names, BIAB automatically sorts my song list in alpha order (a,b,c,d,e..etc)...no problem there.
But, if I add numbers so the song names, so the songs are arranged in the order that I want to play them, BIAB will not sort them in numeric order (1,2,3,4...etc). It sorts them as 1,11,12,13,14....2,21, 22, 23 etc.
Things I tried to fix this:
1. RTFS - no effect
2. Turned off "Enable Sorting of Song List" in the Song Picker options
3. Closed and restarted BIAB
4. Have added and removed the numbers several times
5. Have made up a completely new list with alpha sorting. The new alpha sorts fine by alpha.
6. Took the new alpha list and added numbers. This list will only sort like in the picture.
Anybody have any ideas about this?
Jeff
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Edited by MountainSide (08/14/22 07:41 AM)
_________________________
Win10, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2022, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive Touch, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.16
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#727631 - 08/14/22 07:58 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: MountainSide]
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 830
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Expert
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 830
Loc: Berlin, Germany
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Pretty sure this has to do with Windows 10's new sort order. You can change this in the group policies of Windows.
Numerical sorting in File Explorer is enabled by default in Windows 10. When numerical sorting is enabled, File Explorer will sort file names by increasing number value (for example, 3 < 22 < 111).
When numerical sorting is disabled, File Explorer will sort file names by each digit in a file name (for example, 111 < 22 < 3).
I have a German Windows installation, but you can easily find instructions on the web for the US version to change this behavior. Just google "Windows 10 explorer sort alphanumerical".
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, German Language Pak, Win 10/64 Pro, 1 TB SSD, 32 GB RAM. Notation SW Finale, StaffPad, SmartsScore – Playing Double Bass, Guitar, Piano
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#727632 - 08/14/22 08:13 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: MountainSide]
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Jeff, the data is not sorted in numerical order, but is sorted in ASCII format. This is the way computers store character values like ABC...abc...xyz /-=? {} etc, which are not treated the same as integer values 0 to 9.
In ASCII, a <space> character (ASCII 32) has a lower representative value than a zero character (ASCII 48) and a '2' is ASCII 50, so the two-character sequence of
'2' <space>
is computed as being lower in value than the character sequence of
'2' '0'
because a <space> (32) is represented as a lower value than a '2' (50).
If you require, a workaround is to use alphabetic characters instead of numbers, something like this:
AA - Everybody's somebody's fool
AB - Always on my mind
AC - Are You Lonesome tonight
AD - By the time I get to phoenix
...
BA - On The Road Again
BB - Proud Mary
...
etc
This way, the leading two characters would guarantee an alphabetical sort order.
If other Windows sort methods don't work when used inside BiaB (they possibly won't), then this may help (well, at least I tried).
Trev
_________________________
BIAB & RB2022 Win.(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, SynthogyIvory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer ActiveMonitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#727634 - 08/14/22 08:45 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: AudioTrack]
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 17872
Loc: Hamlin NY
Veteran
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 17872
Loc: Hamlin NY
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FYI - here is how I do it with other lists:
1-if your list goes into double digits I use 01, 02, etc so the sort will be in the correct order.
2-if your list goes into triple digits I use 001 , 002, etc.
3- and on and on
In other words you must add the right amount of zeros for the list to list correctly. This ties into what Trev said.
{Edit} - I should have added that I list BiaB songs alphabetically.
Edited by MarioD (08/14/22 08:47 AM)
_________________________
I'm confused. If Mr and Mrs Potato Head are no longer male and female does that mean there will be no more tater tots?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware
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#727635 - 08/14/22 08:46 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: AudioTrack]
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Veteran
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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What's the matter with me? (It must be late here)
Just start each name with a suitable number sequence:
001 -
002 -
003 -
004 -
005 -
...
009 -
010 -
011 -
012 -
...
020 -
021 -
022 -
etc.
_________________________
BIAB & RB2022 Win.(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, SynthogyIvory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer ActiveMonitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#727636 - 08/14/22 08:50 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: MarioD]
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Veteran
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Thanks Mario. I see you responded.
Yep, that's the way.
_________________________
BIAB & RB2022 Win.(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, SynthogyIvory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer ActiveMonitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#727646 - 08/14/22 09:51 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: AudioTrack]
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 830
Loc: Berlin, Germany
Expert
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 830
Loc: Berlin, Germany
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Mario, Audiotrack, Jeff I think renaming a bunch of existing files one by one makes a bunch of work. I suspect Band in a Box uses Windows system functions for sorting, so I suspect the settings/registry method is easier. I found this: https://www.askvg.com/how-to-disable-numerical-file-name-sorting-and-enable-classic-literal-sorting-in-windows-xp-vista-and-7-explorer/
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, German Language Pak, Win 10/64 Pro, 1 TB SSD, 32 GB RAM. Notation SW Finale, StaffPad, SmartsScore – Playing Double Bass, Guitar, Piano
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#727655 - 08/14/22 11:40 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: Brille]
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 17872
Loc: Hamlin NY
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 17872
Loc: Hamlin NY
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Yes that may be true however to ask someone with little or no in depth Windows' experience to go into the registry is a very dangerous thing. The multi-digit numbering system is probably the safest way for many of us to use. Tedious yes but also safer. In Moutainside's case all he has to do is put one or more zeros in from of the numbers 1-9 depending on how many songs he already has or how many he anticipates adding to the list. The worst case is if he puts one zero in front of 1-9, then goes into the 100's or more all he has to do is to add the appreciate amount of zeros in from of 1-9. Note I have been in the registry but I always make a registry backup prior to doing anything. I am a strong believer of making registry backups.
_________________________
I'm confused. If Mr and Mrs Potato Head are no longer male and female does that mean there will be no more tater tots?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware
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#727671 - 08/14/22 03:08 PM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: MountainSide]
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Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1006
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Expert
Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1006
Loc: Hampshire, UK
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FWIW, I'd probably handle a renumbering exercise like that by making a script to do it.
I can only half help on how as I do these things in Linux, not windows, but I would list all of the filenames into a file, one per line, duplicate all the lines as "existing file name" <tab> "existing file name", then change all the instances of <tab>[1-9] to <tab>0[1-9], hack the last few manually and change the start of each line to mv<tab> which IIRC would be ren<tab> in windows, then test and run the script.
The gotcha in this is always filenames that contain special characters that the script or shell interprets, e.g., ' " and the like. Caveat emptor.
A simpler way still might be to list only 1-something files first and rename them, then do 10...99-something files as a second exercise.
IIRC there is some clever(ish?) rename trick in Windows, but I'm afraid I don't know it. Someone else may have the method.
_________________________
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 10; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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#727672 - 08/14/22 03:17 PM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: Brille]
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Veteran
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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I suspect Band in a Box uses Windows system functions for sorting, Hmmm... I'm not sure about this. Somebody from PG Music would need to advise. PGM?
_________________________
BIAB & RB2022 Win.(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, SynthogyIvory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer ActiveMonitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#727697 - 08/15/22 05:01 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: AudioTrack]
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 2234
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
Veteran
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 2234
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
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Wow! Easy fix. Thanks so much guys.
I just renamed the files as 01, 02, 03, 04...10, 11,12...31,32,33 etc. Adding the "0" as the first digit in the single digit numbers. Rebuilt the Song Picker file and bingo...all sorted in the order I play the songs.
Learn something every day....especially the power of these forums!
I'll make this one as resolved in case somebody else has a similar problem.
Thank again.
Jeff
_________________________
Win10, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2022, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive Touch, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.16
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#727699 - 08/15/22 06:05 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: MountainSide]
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Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1006
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Expert
Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1006
Loc: Hampshire, UK
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If you're likely to create more files in the scheme, it may well be worth adopting a three-or-more digit numbering system now and sticking with it, so you don't in the future end up adding leading zeros to hundred(s) of files.
Edit: Incidentally, when I'm building playlists for a gig, I create songs called, e.g.,
"012-Interval.???" and "021-pre-encore.???".
Edited by Gordon Scott (08/15/22 06:11 AM)
_________________________
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 10; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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#727703 - 08/15/22 06:34 AM
[Band-in-a-Box for Windows]
Re: BIAB Song file names - cannot sort in the Song Picker
[Re: MountainSide]
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Veteran
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 15857
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Fantastic Jeff. Thanks for letting us know it worked out OK, and thanks for marking the thread as resolved.
_________________________
BIAB & RB2022 Win.(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, SynthogyIvory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer ActiveMonitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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