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My first attempt at recording into BB from a Midi/USB Keyboard.
I've just inserted a Kontakt Piano on a Utility Track. From my external USB/Midi Keyboard I can play it fine when not in Record mode.
Also, with the Utility Track selected, if I use the onscreen "Keyboard" tab I hear the Kontakt Piano when I press the 'keys' up the top.
From a PG Music YouTube I learned that when in Record Mode the instrument I am 'hearing' is actually the Instrument which is on the THRU track in BB, not the Kontakt Piano which is on the record enabled & selected Utility Track.
I also found out how to change that Instrument on the Thru track, BUT I can only choose from one of the General Midi instruments within BB, and can't actually listen to the Kontakt instrument while recording. There are a few different options in the drop-menu when doing this, but none offer to use an external/3rd party plugin instrument.
Surely there is a setting that allows me to actually hear the instrument patch in my Plugin instrument, eg Kontakt, EzDrummer, whatever it may be. To be constrained and limited to only the BB internal sounds is very inconvenient.
All suggestions welcomed...
WRITING LOUNGE-MacBookPro-16Gb RAM OSX 10/15.7 |M-AUDIO Air 192-14|Studio One 5 Pro|BIAB Pro 2022|Guitars&Keyboards Etc || STUDIO ROOM -MacStudio M1 MAX 32Gb RAM OSX 12.6 Monterey|Allen&Heath QU16 A/D Mixer|Studio One 5 Pro|BIAB Pro 2022|Alesis DM10 Drums
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why do you need to hear the kontakt piano as you record? it's midi and although it may sound better than the BIAB patch, the velocity and pitch information you play in to record will be the same so the BIAB piano will respond to your keyboard touch. then on playback you can use the kontakt piano. or am i missing something?
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As Bob indicated Band-in-a-Box does not have the capability to playback the audio from a track while that track is in record mode.
A solution to record the audio output of a Band-in-a-Box midi track recorded requires multiple steps. First record the midi data into either the Melody or Soloist track. That way you will not lose your recorded midi data when tracks are generated. Second install the virtual instrument into the recorded midi track. Third use a DAW or Audio Editor to record the virtual instrument's audio output during playback.
A solution when recording audio is to use an audio interface that includes the capability to mix audio coming from the computer with audio you are sending to the computer. This audio interface feature includes a headphone jack on the interface and is called something like direct monitor or record what you hear.
Both solutions I presented require using something external to Band-in-a-Box. There are other solutions but they also require the use of stuff outside Band-in-a-Box.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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why do you need to hear the kontakt piano as you record? it's midi and although it may sound better than the BIAB patch, the velocity and pitch information you play in to record will be the same so the BIAB piano will respond to your keyboard touch. then on playback you can use the kontakt piano. or am i missing something? Thanks for your reply. The reason I need to hear my Kontakt, or whatever it may be (eg anything from my N.I. Complete Suite) is that I may be using a patch in that Kontakt etc which I designed for a specific playing style or particular song. If I am constrained to only being able to monitor the internal instrument provided by BIAB it's not allowing me to record the performance with true 'emotion' or such; ie a generic synth pad may sound basically ok, but if in fact I have a very specific synth pad in one of my 3rd party instruments, and when trying to record for that instrument, I am only hearing the onboard BB instrument which is quite different, I won't get a recording that expresses what I want. This would seem to be one of the most obvious things to me...that what we play is generally, to a point, dictated to or influenced by, the instrument we can hear. Regarding the post-link you offered, thanks for that but I had seen it previously, and it seems to be addressing the fact that the OP couldn't get her midi keyboard to trigger anything in BB. I can trigger/play both BB instruments (on Thru Track) AND Kontakt instruments (on a Utility Track)from my midi kybrd, but as soon as I go into record mode the Kontakt instrument is not heard, only the BB instrument which is on Thru track. To sum up, what I want is to know how to monitor/hear my 3rd party instruments during recording in BB. Maybe it's not possible, but it seems ridiculous that we need to listen to an instrument other than the one we want when recording... Hopefully someone else has had this specific issue and knows a fix...
WRITING LOUNGE-MacBookPro-16Gb RAM OSX 10/15.7 |M-AUDIO Air 192-14|Studio One 5 Pro|BIAB Pro 2022|Guitars&Keyboards Etc || STUDIO ROOM -MacStudio M1 MAX 32Gb RAM OSX 12.6 Monterey|Allen&Heath QU16 A/D Mixer|Studio One 5 Pro|BIAB Pro 2022|Alesis DM10 Drums
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Thanks Jim,
I was busy writing my reply just posted when you must have posted your comment.
Having just started with BIAB it's a bit strange to me, as I've been using computer music software in many guises since 1988 or earlier, and using DAWs for more than 20 years.
Regarding your first suggestion, I'm not quite sure how to follow there.
I know that any midi recording can subsequently be assigned to play any virtual instrument you may choose; you can even get a midi drum track to play hits on a virtual piano, if you wanted to.
I also know that I can transfer a midi track from BB into Studio One easily enough. Same for audio tracks.
You say A solution to record the audio output of a Band-in-a-Box midi track recorded requires multiple steps. First record the midi data into either the Melody or Soloist track.
That way you will not lose your recorded midi data when tracks are generated. Second install the virtual instrument into the recorded midi track. Third use a DAW or Audio Editor to record the virtual instrument's audio output during playback.
I have the Kontakt Piano on a Utility Track, and the internal BB Piano on the Utility Track. You say to record the performance to either the Melody or Soloist track...why can't I recod it to the Utility track which has the Kontakt Piano?
Then you say that I need to install the Kontakt Piano (or such) to the track the midi performance was recorded to (ie Melody or Soloist)... Are you saying that it will then play the track using the Kontakt Piano? If so, that's interesting, but still doesn't address not being able to monitor Kontakt WHILE RECORDING.
This is bamboozling...
Regarding your 2nd suggestion, at this setup I'm using an M-Audio AIR 192|14 interface, which does have that function allowing a blend of Direct / USB signal to the headphones. That only applies to 'real world' sources such as a guitar or vocal mic etc, but when playing a VST/AU Instrument plugin which is generated from within the Studio One or whatever DAW, blending won't work, because, well, all source is coming from the computer.
I'll hang in and see what other people may suggest...with fingers crossed...
WRITING LOUNGE-MacBookPro-16Gb RAM OSX 10/15.7 |M-AUDIO Air 192-14|Studio One 5 Pro|BIAB Pro 2022|Guitars&Keyboards Etc || STUDIO ROOM -MacStudio M1 MAX 32Gb RAM OSX 12.6 Monterey|Allen&Heath QU16 A/D Mixer|Studio One 5 Pro|BIAB Pro 2022|Alesis DM10 Drums
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Switch to RealBand. Or any other DAW. BIAB is great but has its limitations.
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i don't think you can do want you want easily in BIAB although I'm sure Jim knows a way but it sounds a little complicated.
it might be easier to do the following........
copy the BIAB file so you don't change it and can always open the current file
open the copied file in RB.
you should be able to select a midi track and load the vst. record a midi track hearing the instrument you want.
export the midi track as a wav or as a standalone midi file.
close RB and open the original BIAB file and import the audio wav or MIDI you just created.
BIAB is not a DAW. It's an auto accompaniment program and an amazing one. for some things RB fills the gaps easily and seamlessly
Last edited by Bob Calver; 09/13/22 06:07 AM.
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In the above post RB = Realband, which you have as part of your BiaB package if you have a Windows version.
It is not included in the Mac version, nor available for Mac.
Another option;
If you can route the output of Kontakt to output 3/4, then route that back into the computer, *maybe you can use Kontakt as a standalone, trigger/hear it by playing your keyboard, THEN route that audio signal back around to BiaB.
I have done this with Realband and other DAWs many times with a Focusrite 18i20 but do not have your interface to test with, though it would appear capable.
FWIW I prefer doing this using Komplete Kontrol, as it just seems easier to assign and keep the routing I want, whereas the regular Kontakt seems to vary depending on which synth/module/whatever you want to call it (example - the setup in Analog Dreams may be different than Factory Library, so I prefer Komplete Kontrol to keep it simple, I like simple)
Note that this method results in Audio, not MIDI
FWIW-2, I can also play Kontakt in RB as you desire though it does take more futzing around, so simply using it as a standalone and routing it back in to the desired target software is my normal flow.
Configuring Realband I can get both Audio and MIDI to record at once, but it can get a little advanced. Especially if you have never used it before. Also note you can still generate in RB, so it is kind of like BiaB but different in the interface, which honestly may seem a little more intuitive for you, as it does for some other users.
Sorry, not a big BiaB user once RB came out; just seems to fit my personal workflow better
Last edited by rharv; 09/13/22 03:36 PM.
Make your sound your own!
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i don't think you can do want you want easily in BIAB although I'm sure Jim knows a way but it sounds a little complicated.
it might be easier to do the following........
copy the BIAB file so you don't change it and can always open the current file
open the copied file in RB.
you should be able to select a midi track and load the vst. record a midi track hearing the instrument you want.
export the midi track as a wav or as a standalone midi file.
close RB and open the original BIAB file and import the audio wav or MIDI you just created.
BIAB is not a DAW. It's an auto accompaniment program and an amazing one. for some things RB fills the gaps easily and seamlessly My way is complicated because Bob is correct. Band-in-a-Box can not record virtual instrument audio output while midi is input at the same time.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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... To sum up, what I want is to know how to monitor/hear my 3rd party instruments during recording in BB.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Sounds like a challenge, but it would need a definition of 'third party instruments' .. if they are standalone, it may be possible, but complicated
Then again, why bother when so many other avenues make it MUCH easier
Last edited by rharv; 09/14/22 02:20 PM.
Make your sound your own!
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No, it's not a challenge.
Every solution I can think of requires routing audio outside of Band-in-a-Box because Band-in-a-Box turns off the audio of a track when the track is in record mode. I believe the issue is he hopes to accomplish that goal without routing any audio outside Band-in-a-Box.
One item that might clarify the issue is to know the brand and model of the keyboard he is using to input midi. If the keyboard is capable of passing digital audio as well as midi through the keyboard to computer connection the Kontakt VSTi might be available through the connection.
By using the tools he has listed in his signature there should be several ways to route the Kontakt VSTi piano audio signal so he can hear it while he is also recording the midi input as he is playing.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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<< The reason I need to hear my Kontakt, or whatever it may be (eg anything from my N.I. Complete Suite) is that I may be using a patch in that Kontakt etc which I designed for a specific playing style or particular song.
If I am constrained to only being able to monitor the internal instrument provided by BIAB it's not allowing me to record the performance with true 'emotion' or such; ie a generic synth pad may sound basically ok, but if in fact I have a very specific synth pad in one of my 3rd party instruments, and when trying to record for that instrument, I am only hearing the onboard BB instrument which is quite different, I won't get a recording that expresses what I want.
This would seem to be one of the most obvious things to me...that what we play is generally, to a point, dictated to or influenced by, the instrument we can hear.
Regarding the post-link you offered, thanks for that but I had seen it previously, and it seems to be addressing the fact that the OP couldn't get her midi keyboard to trigger anything in BB. I can trigger/play both BB instruments (on Thru Track) AND Kontakt instruments (on a Utility Track)from my midi kybrd, but as soon as I go into record mode the Kontakt instrument is not heard, only the BB instrument which is on Thru track.
To sum up, what I want is to know how to monitor/hear my 3rd party instruments during recording in BB.
Maybe it's not possible, but it seems ridiculous that we need to listen to an instrument other than the one we want when recording...
Hopefully someone else has had this specific issue and knows a fix... >>
The task being asked of BIAB is a conflation of two separate processes, hearing the audio performance and recording the midi data. You're correct, when you activate to record MIDI, BIAB defaults to recording only the midi data. BIAB has a separate process to record audio.
It's not a fix but rather the way BIAB is designed to capture a VST compiled audio performance with all the nuances and emotions of that performance is done by using BIAB's Artist Performance File feature.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Would a software Windows/Mac MIDI patchbay help with this?
There are several around on the 'Net.
I've not used one on Windows, so can't comment on suitability, but I use a couple on Linux, to allow me to route MIDI to multiple programs.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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Would a software Windows/Mac MIDI patchbay help with this?
There are several around on the 'Net.
I've not used one on Windows, so can't comment on suitability, but I use a couple on Linux, to allow me to route MIDI to multiple programs. I don't think so in reference to the intended use of MIDI detailed by Mr. Kennedy. BIAB is not the right recording tool. The process should be reversed. Render a scratch stereo WAV file of the song from BIAB and use it as the guide track to record the Kontakt instrument in his DAW that will correctly play and monitor the Kontakt instrument. It's preferable to record the VST instrument in a DAW the same as one would prefer recording vocals in a DAW if applying high end Fx's rather than record in BIAB without Fx's. Mr. Kennedy is looking for a custom sound. For the intended outcome desired by Mr. Kennedy using a VST Kontakt instrument, there's no need to record any MIDI into a BIAB track. Even if the intention is to continue working in BIAB, all that's necessary is the performance of the instrument, which is an Artist Performance File. If changes are necessary to the Artist Performance File, do the additional recording in the DAW and import the new file into BIAB.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
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