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#735355 10/18/22 10:13 PM
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Forever July

Please catch me, 'cause I'm falling
Look at me now, I'm lost just like a child

Lost in a fairy tale, I'm Alice in Wonderland
Life seems just a dream when I'm holding your hand

In the golden afternoon, leisurely reclined,
Down lazy rivers we glide

Sparrows spin and pirouette in the endless sky
Stay with me now the sun is so high
In my Forever July


Look at me now, 'cause I'm landing
Standing with you
Held in the warmth of your smile

I was a ship that sailed
Tossed about on stormy seas
But now I'm safe in your harbor
Safe with your arms around me

Soon the golden sun will set
And the hours will chime
Leaving our shadows behind

Autumn frost will come some day
Summer days will die
Stay with me now
The sun is still high
Be my Forever July


Instruments
~700:Bass, Electric, PopHalfNotesPush Ev 085
~365:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 085
~1118:Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 085
~363:Pedal Steel, Background Ev 085
3669:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm NewAgeArp16 Ev16 090
1856:Cello, Background PopCountry Ev 085
1680:Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 085
~365:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 085
~2503:Piano, Acoustic, HeldChords 085
3765:Vibes, Rhythm PopBallad Ev 085
RealTracks in song: 2195:Piano, ElectricVintage, Rhythm CoolJazzPopHeld Ev 085
RealTracks in song: 912:Piano, Electric, Rhythm SmoothPoppy Ev16 090
RealDrums in style:NashvilleEven8^5-a:Snare, HiHat , b:Snare, Ride

Mix Chain
Master Buss: Ozone Imager 2, HoRNet Master Tool, Lurssen Mastering Console
Vocal Buss: GW VoiceCentric, TR5 Sunset Sound Reverb, Raum
Vocal: HoRNet AutoGainProProMkII, Nectar 3 Elements
Drums: TrackSpacer, CLA Drums, EZMix (Mellow Drum Room), ReaEQ (low cut), Raum
MIDI Drums: VD PHAT, TrackSpacer, Raum, Ozone Imager
Piano: TrackSpacer, EZMix (Piano), Raum
Pedal Steel: EZ Mix (Chorus Guitar)
Cello: TrackSpacer, GW VoiceCentric
12 String Guitars: EZMix (Acoustic Guitar), Raum
Electric Pianos: TrackSpacer

Edits: Modified lyrics, Adjusted vocal track volume, balanced guitars, adjusted drum settings
More Edits: Added "Please", fixed cello at end, added cut on drum so it plays nice with the bass

Short Details
Any comments are appreciated!

The Sordid Details
Another super-slow song lacking a strong chorus. Do not listen to while operating heavy machinery!

This started out with I found a demo track in BiaB that I liked - Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 085 demo - and then I started messing with it until I had a chord progression I liked. I loaded that as a backing track into SynthesizerV and started working on a melody.

Once the melody was in place, it was time to try to start fitting in lyrics. As usual, I didn't have an idea for the song, and the melody lacked a strong chorus. But that's never stopped me before.

I'd started out using "Eleanor Forte" as the voicebank for the song, but Dreamtonics released a new "Natalie" voicebank. Someone mentioned she had a bit of a Karen Carpenter vibe, so I brought the melody down an octave and it seemed to fit the voice well, so that's what I ended up going with.

After putting down a couple of lines, I realized that I was cribbing from songs I'd written before. I've visited this topic before, but then, so did Lewis Carroll, who I've liberally borrowed from.

I also managed to make the usual mistake of writing all my ideas into the first verse, and still didn't have anything to put into the chorus! The next couple of days were spent trying to dig myself out of that mess by adding a second verse and moving things around so the second verse wasn't just a restatement of the first.

Song structure? Rhyme scheme? I certainly wasn't consistent about applying it here. wink

There are a lot of tracks, but they obviously don't play all at once. For example, there are a pair of acoustic guitars that play on verse 1 and the end of verse 2. They are swapped out for a pair of 12 string guitars at the start of verse 2. I doubt anyone - including myself - can actually hear the difference, though.

I bought a bunch of plugins from HoRNet, so I decided to try them out in the song. I also really like the Raum reverb, so I plastered it all over the mix.

To help keep all the tracks in place, I'm using TrackSpacer, which is an auto-ducker. That means I can automatically turn down one track (such as the cello) when another (such as the vocal. What makes TrackSpacer special is that it only cuts where the frequencies overlap, as well as allowing a high/low pass range of frequencies that don't get ducked. That helps prevent the noticeable "pumping" when the volume drop is too obvious.

At this point, the song is pretty much complete. But I'll still probably tweak the mix and lyrics, so feel free to make suggestions!


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
dcuny #735356 10/18/22 10:46 PM
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Hi David
Very nice song
Natalie sounds really cool
Great background track
I think you can partly not notice any difference to a human voice
Really great work David
Many greetings
Andi ;-)

dcuny #735368 10/19/22 01:21 AM
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Natalie reminds me indeed of Karen Carpenter, and Karen is one of my all-time favorite singers....
As strange as this sentence may sound, I really need to try out Natalie grin

I like the song, a chorus would be nice, but it's not really necessary, the song works pretty well as it is now.
Arrangement and production are also pretty good, nothing to complain about here.

Originally Posted By: dcuny
I also managed to make the usual mistake of writing all my ideas into the first verse, and still didn't have anything to put into the chorus!

I know this all too well... my workaround for this is to sing along with the verse, and sooner or later I find the melody for the chorus, and once I have that, the lyrics come automatically.

Last edited by B.D.Thomas; 10/19/22 01:22 AM. Reason: Shbelling...

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PROJECT M #735408 10/19/22 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: PROJECT M
Very nice song
Natalie sounds really cool
Great background track
I think you can partly not notice any difference to a human voice
Really great work David

Hi, Andi.

Yes, with the exception of the dynamic range - which I haven't really tried adjusting in this song - I think Natalie is pretty convincing.

Thanks for listening and commenting!


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
B.D.Thomas #735412 10/19/22 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: B.D.Thomas
Natalie reminds me indeed of Karen Carpenter, and Karen is one of my all-time favorite singers....

Hi, B.D.

Karen Carpenter is also one of my all-time favorite singers. smile

I was very happy with Natalie's voice. I've got all the native SynthV English singers, and she's now one of my favorites. There are a number of issues with her - for example, she drops a lot of final plosives like /b/ and /t/ from her words, but there are workarounds for that.

For example, I'll can stick a 16th note /d ah/ syllable to the end of a word and set the duration of the /ah/ to minimum, and that will add the missing /d/ sound. (I know that you use SynthV, which is why I'm adding this trivia).


Quote:
I like the song, a chorus would be nice, but it's not really necessary, the song works pretty well as it is now.

Thanks!

I considered writing a "real" chorus for it, but I really liked the melody, so I decided to keep it.

I was reading through a music theory text the other day, and it was talking about how melodies should have a climax point, and how beginning writers tend to repeat the climax so it loses impact.

It then went on to say that the exception to the rule is songs like lullabies, which is basically what I've written. wink


Quote:
Arrangement and production are also pretty good, nothing to complain about here.

Good to hear!

I'd initially considered adding some double reeds, but the cello filled in things nicely, so I went the lazy route. The demo song had a steel guitar on it, which I originally dropped from the song. But I wanted something that would give contrast to the cello on the second verse, so I brought it back there.


Quote:
I know this all too well... my workaround for this is to sing along with the verse, and sooner or later I find the melody for the chorus, and once I have that, the lyrics come automatically.

I create the backing track first, and then the melody. For me, that's the easy part.

Then I listen to the melody and try to figure out what it's singing. It sort of builds by accumulation, and a lot of rewriting.

Unfortunately, I rarely start with a strong idea, so it's a plodding process. If I instead began with a chorus and worked backwards, my writing process would likely be a lot more focused and much less painful.

Thanks for stopping by to listen and comment!


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
dcuny #735417 10/19/22 08:02 AM
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David,

I agree with others that this is a very nice production with a wonderfully, soothing vocal performance. Regarding the melody, my ear was ready to hear a change to a chorus where the third stanza currently resides. Really lifting up that first line might be something to consider.

Regarding the rhyme, scheme: You have pieces that might work together already (just an example, not meant to be a rewrite).

Catch me, 'cause I'm falling
Lost just like a child
Feel safe and warm
In the comfort of your smile

Again, I really enjoyed the soothing sounds of this one and my suggestions are, well..., exactly that, just suggestions.

Na zdrowie!

Dewey_MI #735422 10/19/22 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dewey_MI
I agree with others that this is a very nice production with a wonderfully, soothing vocal performance.

Thanks - Natalie has a nice voice and in the future I'll see what her upper range is like.

Quote:
Regarding the melody, my ear was ready to hear a change to a chorus where the third stanza currently resides. Really lifting up that first line might be something to consider.

Yeah, there's a sameness to the melody that could be better addressed. It's not so much a problem when there is a chorus, as that brings in variety and contrast. And normally, a verse isn't usually that melodically adventurous.

But lacking a distinct chorus and a fairly consistent arrangement, it's more of a problem here.

Quote:
Regarding the rhyme, scheme: You have pieces that might work together already (just an example, not meant to be a rewrite).

Heh. I'm not that worried about the rhyme scheme, I just thought I'd acknowledge that I wasn't even close to rigorous to any sort of scheme while writing this. smile

Na zdrowie! (BTW, I'm holding a Coke Zero wink )


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
dcuny #735425 10/19/22 09:19 AM
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You know, I really enjoy your writing style, David. The first listen was wonderful background for pleasant reading. With your help I'm learning different synth voices. When you suggested Eleanor Forte, I was with you, and I' with you on using Natalie. So good. Man, you got me with the title. Curiouser and curiouser I read about Alice. The song is so lilting and aurally pleasing that I'd never notice there is no rhyme scheme and still don't. As far as song structure, this song is better without it --afterall it is Forever July.


Enjoy whatever happens!
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dcuny #735426 10/19/22 09:24 AM
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David,

Like someone mentioned before, a soothing song.
Natalie has that Karen Carpenter vibe indeed.
Nice and warm voice.
Beautiful melody and music.

Anne-Marie


We are Rob Meulman and Anne-Marie Bovenkamp from The Netherlands.

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dcuny #735442 10/19/22 10:02 AM
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David, IMHO this is your best to date.

I really liked that melody line and your chord progression.

Super job on getting Natalie to sing your lyrics!

Great mix.


I just posted a selfie and all of the responses were get well soon!

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
dcuny #735460 10/19/22 11:54 AM
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David

Man did you ever utilize a large quantity of realtracks on this and they all sound great! The vocal you put on this is one of the best uses of the synth voice I've heard...you have really mastered using that very effectively! This song is a thing of beauty! The melody is wonderful and the overall sound of the song is polished and pro sounding!

Thanks, Torrey




dcuny #735473 10/19/22 12:28 PM
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Really good song, doesn't need a chorus at all. I'm blown away by the synth voice. A lot of RTs but it seems to come together nicely. Great work!


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dcuny #735487 10/19/22 02:24 PM
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David,
Neat composition. Very good balance of modern sound and classical strings. That robo girl can sing!
Strong progression. Such an earworm phrasing hook from 0:58-1:06 and the one at 2:34. Short, but very effective. While mix is clear, vocals standing out a bit too much for my taste. Thank you for sharing.

Misha.

BabuMusic #735519 10/19/22 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: BabuMusic
You know, I really enjoy your writing style, David. The first listen was wonderful background for pleasant reading.

Thanks! Maybe I'll put out an album of mellow tunes called "Background Music for Internet Browsing". crazy

Quote:
With your help I'm learning different synth voices. When you suggested Eleanor Forte, I was with you, and I'm with you on using Natalie.

I didn't really do that much with the voice. I mostly just picked notes and words that I thought she sung nicely. The voice has a lot of character, which obviously lends itself to some songs and not others. But I think it's one of the better voices available.

Quote:
Man, you got me with the title.

It's probably the only original bit in the entire song. Mind you, there's nothing particularly bad about being somewhat derivative - it's part of the human condition, and songwriting is about writing to that shared experience.

Quote:
The song is so lilting and aurally pleasing that I'd never notice there is no rhyme scheme and still don't. As far as song structure, this song is better without it --afterall it is Forever July.

It's not totally without rhyme, but I think it's not as obvious as it could be.

I also tried for some inner rhymes, like with:

      Lost and tossed on stormy seas

But I think it's probably a bit stilted and unnatural, so I'm really tempted to rewrite it because of that.

Thanks for listening and the positive feedback - I appreciate it! smile


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
RnAM #735521 10/19/22 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: RnAM
Like someone mentioned before, a soothing song.
Natalie has that Karen Carpenter vibe indeed.
Nice and warm voice.
Beautiful melody and music.

Thanks, Anne-Marie.

I appreciate you taking the time to listen and comment! smile


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
MarioD #735522 10/19/22 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
David, IMHO this is your best to date.

Hi, Mario.

I appreciate the compliment, but I suspect you're more swayed by the lovely vocal from Natalie than my writing. wink

And thanks for mentioning the mix!


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
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Originally Posted By: Torrey Bliss
Man did you ever utilize a large quantity of realtracks on this and they all sound great!

Hi, Torrey.

Thanks!

I have a tendency to over-stuff my arrangements instead of paring back, but in the case I couldn't resist.

Quote:
The vocal you put on this is one of the best uses of the synth voice I've heard...you have really mastered using that very effectively!

I really can't take credit here, because I didn't work to hard on the voice. I just picked phrasing that I thought suited the vocal. In the future, I'll have to check out here upper range and work a bit more on figuring out how to make it more expressive.

But Natalie sounds so lovely on this, so I'm really happy with it despite other issues.

Plus, I picked some of my favorite BiaB sounds to go with the vocal. smile

And thanks for mentioning the mix. I still haven't quite figured how to set the vocal into the mix, but I'm pretty happy with how it turned out.


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
TuneMonger #735524 10/19/22 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: TuneMonger
Really good song, doesn't need a chorus at all. I'm blown away by the synth voice. A lot of RTs but it seems to come together nicely. Great work!

Hi, Rob.

Thanks! The list of RTs looks long, but most of the instruments only show up in specific places.

For example, I was able to use the Vibes to add a bit of "sparkle" in some spots, but they blend in well with the electric keyboard, so hopefully the weren't noticed. Similarly, the pianos were swapped in and out to give different parts different feels.

But it's nothing compared to what some of the other forum members do!

Thanks for commenting! smile


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
dcuny #735525 10/19/22 08:15 PM
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Hi David ...

So wartm and soothing. The lyric, after the first verse, is istill pretty strong. It says what needs to be said and in a very nice way. Natalie vocaloid sounds wonderful. She has such a soft and gentle voice - you coached her well!

That was a really soothing and rewarding listen - very nice, indeed!

Pretty amazing how you mixed so many tracks to be so coherent and mutually supporting without cluttering the stage. I'm impressed!

Alan


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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Neat composition. Very good balance of modern sound and classical strings. That robo girl can sing!

Hi, Misha.

Thanks! Yes, she's pretty amazing. smile

Quote:
Strong progression. Such an earworm phrasing hook from 0:58-1:06 and the one at 2:34. Short, but very effective.

Changing the F major chord into an F minor is a lovely sound. Thanks for noticing!

Quote:
While mix is clear, vocals standing out a bit too much for my taste.

I'm sure you're right about that.

I haven't quite figured out how to tuck vocals into the mix so the sit just right. I'll see if I can get that mixed a bit better.

Thanks for stopping by and commenting! laugh


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
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