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#742877 - 12/05/22 11:24 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
F5 - Support for Utility tracks
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 1197
Loc: Spain
Expert
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 1197
Loc: Spain
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Coming from here: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=741680IMO, since All tracks are equal, F5 should support utility tracks. At this point, the easiest and fastest way to mute an instrument and bring it in and out of the mix, or to change its volume, is via F5, but that's simply not possible with Utility tracks.
_________________________
Using BIAB 2023, latest build.
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#742881 - 12/06/22 12:40 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 16881
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Veteran
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 16881
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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I have to admit that the 'all tracks are equal' statement actually really means that 'however, some tracks are more equal than others' (apologies if that line has been used before somewhere).
The 'methods' used by Legacy Tracks could be adapted internally to apply to Utility Tracks (even if the underlying code needed some transparency to make this work).
'All tracks are equal' should mean exactly that.
+1
_________________________
BIAB & RB2023 Win.(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, SynthogyIvory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer ActiveMonitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#742899 - 12/06/22 05:58 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: AudioTrack]
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 19517
Loc: Hamlin NY
Veteran
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 19517
Loc: Hamlin NY
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"'All tracks are equal' should mean exactly that." Exactly
+1
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Texting for seniors - ROFLACGU = rolling on the floor laughing and can't get up. BYOT = Bring your own teeth. BTW = Bring the wheelchair.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and hardware
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#742900 - 12/06/22 06:00 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 2609
Loc: Buford, GA
Veteran
Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 2609
Loc: Buford, GA
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I could have sworn this was already a wish list item. FWIW: HELL YEAH!!! +1,000!!!
_________________________
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 16 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2023 UltraPak Build 1010
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#742915 - 12/06/22 06:40 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: MikeK]
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Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 5
Newbie
Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 5
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Yes yes yes +1
Having said this, I'm very happy with the improvements for BIAB '23. Thanks PG!
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#743075 - 12/06/22 04:59 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 10704
Loc: Wauconda
Veteran
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 10704
Loc: Wauconda
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F5 is going away. Instead of harmonizing with Legacy tracks the workflow will align with Utility Tracks. Content will all be edited as virtual audio files which are fully coded and editied and arranged as if they were audio while they remain fully codified in .sgu/.mgu format. Eventually all tracks will merge into SuperTracks, come 2027. Mark my words, you heard it here first. 
_________________________
Dan, BIAB2023, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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#743085 - 12/06/22 06:05 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 02/06/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Sydney NSW
Enthusiast
Registered: 02/06/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Sydney NSW
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Why remove something when so many want it..........................
Keith
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#743170 - 12/07/22 06:08 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Keith44]
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 10704
Loc: Wauconda
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 10704
Loc: Wauconda
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Why remove something when so many want it.......................... Keith - of course I am just speculating. I have no insider knowledge on future planning. Having said that, there are trends in BIAB features over the past years which I feel do point in this direction.
_________________________
Dan, BIAB2023, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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#743243 - 12/07/22 02:23 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: MusicStudent]
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 16881
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Veteran
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 16881
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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I doubt that F5 is going to disappear. There are simply too many features provided by the F5 Bar Settings dialog, including Tempo changes, Key Signature changes, MIDI patch changes, Style changes, RealTracks and RealDrums changes and more. We'll just have to wait to see what 2027 brings
Edited by AudioTrack (12/07/22 05:21 PM)
_________________________
BIAB & RB2023 Win.(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, SynthogyIvory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer ActiveMonitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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#743247 - 12/07/22 03:10 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: AudioTrack]
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Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1589
Loc: Hampshire, UK
Expert
Registered: 01/15/15
Posts: 1589
Loc: Hampshire, UK
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I also doubt it will disappear ... MusicStudent was being ironic.
Over my side of the pond they tell us Americans don't do irony.
Sometimes they do :-)
More likely I think, is that F5 will morph into something that better structures all the many options possible over all the tracks. That one dialog and/or collection of dialogs, may well demand some concentrated thinking to get right.
_________________________
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 10; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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#743306 - 12/08/22 04:37 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 4945
Veteran
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 4945
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+1
but....I would like to see a different "background" process of how it is done. (please correct me if I am wrong)
As of now, a " mute" and "back to normal" is done by destructive editing. Meaning, it forces BIAB to regenerate track(s), "cutting out" and "pasting in" segments. If this was was done by actually automating volumes, the process would be far more flexible.
#1 you will not lose generation and process would take less time (as it will not regenerate tracks)
#2 you would be able to go into ACW or Audio edit and do a fine tune or further precise automation
As far as the OP request, again +1 I think F5 is quick and convenient and should include all tracks., I am just proposing the background mechanics of how this can be done.
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#743338 - 12/08/22 06:57 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Rustyspoon#]
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 7702
Loc: South Carolina
Veteran
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 7702
Loc: South Carolina
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+1
but....I would like to see a different "background" process of how it is done. (please correct me if I am wrong)
As of now, a " mute" and "back to normal" is done by destructive editing. Meaning, it forces BIAB to regenerate track(s), "cutting out" and "pasting in" segments. If this was was done by actually automating volumes, the process would be far more flexible.
#1 you will not lose generation and process would take less time (as it will not regenerate tracks)
#2 you would be able to go into ACW or Audio edit and do a fine tune or further precise automation
As far as the OP request, again +1 I think F5 is quick and convenient and should include all tracks., I am just proposing the background mechanics of how this can be done. Using F5 to Mute and Return to Normal doesn't destructive edit any data/audio so there's never any regeneration. #1 No generation is lost. No time is lost or gained. #2 Using Audio Edit is actually faster, easier, more precise and visual than using F5 to mutes bars. Note opening Bar Settings there is a slight lag before the Bar Settings Windows opens There is no lag opening The Audio Edit Window. This is a minor thing but Audio Edit opens faster. To compare muting one bar with Bar Settings and the Audio Edit Window, * using F5 Open Bar Settings window Select Bar to Mute Select Track to Mute Select Action to Mute Select Bar to Return to Normal Select Track to Return to Normal Select Action to Return to Normal * Using Audio Edit Window Select icon Audio Edit Highlight bar Hit Delete Bonus to using Audio Edit rather than Bar Settings: Applicable to all 24 tracks There are multiple methods to mute besides the single listing above. Many additional advanced editing/mixing options are available from the Audio Edit Window Wav image of bars 6-8 playing muted on Legacy Track Guitar 1 (Piano) using Bar Settings Mute and Return to Normal functions. The wav form is unaffected. Bar Settings are user applied after the BIAB algorithm has selected and applied Wav Instructions to the RealTrack Data on the track.
Post attachments only available when logged in
_________________________
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2023:RB 2023, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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#743352 - 12/08/22 08:51 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 4945
Veteran
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 4945
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Charlie. People are asking for F5 function for all tracks. That is a valid wish, people are not asking for a workaround. Watch this 30 second video. What do you think is happening to the Guitar track when mute at the bar (F5) is applied?? https://www.dropbox.com/s/24hxod6np0v7sp4/Flashback%20-%20Dec%208%2C%202022%2011_33_58.mp4?dl=0"Using Audio Edit is actually faster" Please do not misinform people. It took me 16 seconds to mute 4 instruments at one bar and unmute them at another. (TOTAL TIME!) Now, when you beat this number by method which you said is "faster", or even come remotely close to 16 seconds of muting and unmuting four instruments at different bars, please chime back, as I do want to learn more. ---------------- People want a convenience of being able to do things in a fast track. This is not how you envision it, but that is what they (including me) want. No need to derail a well supported request.
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#743402 - 12/08/22 01:07 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 7702
Loc: South Carolina
Veteran
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 7702
Loc: South Carolina
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My intention was not to derail any request for F5 support for all tracks, but solely to speak of destructive editing using F5 Bar settings.
This morning, I generated at track, used F5 to mute a few bars and Back to Normal, opened the Audio Edit Window to display, hit play and the song counted in, started and played and muted the bars it supposed to. The wav form did not disappear and regenerate. I'd never experienced a regeneration of a track using Bar Settings.
I been out on errands but on my return I watched your video and I can duplicate the track regenerating like your video displays. I also noted that the red bar lines display now has a selection in Bar Settings for auto display of red bars, yes, display all the time or no, don't display. I'd not noticed that before either so it seems there's still some attention being given to Bar Settings. That said, I don't think using bar settings should force a regeneration either. I'm able to recover the original track using undo, but regeneration should not be necessary.
Regarding muting 4 tracks in 16 seconds, again, my intention is not to derail any request for any wishlist. Both the Audio Edit method and Bar Settings (F5) are BIAB features so there's really no competition but rather user preference to use all the features however best suits the user.
_________________________
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2023:RB 2023, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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#743416 - 12/08/22 02:41 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 4945
Veteran
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 4945
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Charlie. People are asking for an axe, you are offering a scalpel.
Completely different tools. The existing "workaround" you proposed:
A) will take enormous amount of time operating several tracks, especially under non existing bulk commands "mute all" / "back to normal" compared to F5.
B)No visual indicator on chord sheet of any kind.(!)
C) Too much to grasp for average user, who doesn't need all the precision and spend many hours on the arrangement.
Again, a BIG +1 for OP request.
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#743420 - 12/08/22 02:49 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 837
Expert
Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 837
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+1
_________________________
Biab 2023 10.13, Win11
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#743432 - 12/08/22 04:04 PM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1536
Expert
Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1536
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Yes this has been asked for many times going right back to when Utilities were released in the main and beta forum. I don't know now with volume automation if they are looking for a different way of doing F5 or what ? maybe F5 could automatically set the volume automation giving tweak control user override ? this way within the muted bars you can manually turn the level up on a few beats if needed or put a slight fade in/out. As these tracks were added because users wanted it to become their DAW. I would of thought it would of been simple to add them in the F5 ? Maybe they will be adding other automation tracks instead of just volume ? like pan. I don't know why F5 takes too long to open ? wonder if the can make that like the Alt+F8 window that you can leave open and still work ?  Then you have Old Muso's Bar view that gives you an instant visual of all the F5 settings like what bars are muted on what instrument, what RealTrack changes at what bar etc.. in F5 you only see whats on one bar. All these things give you the best of both worlds. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=650871&page=all  In F5 I have the Bass on Bar 1 muted but where does it come back in ? In the Old Muso Bar View I can instantly see and I can see all the tracks with one look I not relying on my memory of all 24 F5 track mutes. I can make changes in F5, in the Bar View window or in the volume automation, whatever I'm most comfortable with.
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#743528 - 12/09/22 09:55 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 2689
Loc: Derry,Ireland
Veteran
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 2689
Loc: Derry,Ireland
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#743532 - 12/09/22 10:06 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 837
Expert
Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 837
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I think if it was simple they would have provided it to us from the start. But it remains a legitimate need, if "all tracks are equal" hahaha
_________________________
Biab 2023 10.13, Win11
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#746420 - 12/25/22 12:00 AM
[Band-in-a-Box Wishlist]
Re: F5 - Support for Utility tracks
[Re: Cerio]
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Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 34
Loc: Melbourne, AU
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 34
Loc: Melbourne, AU
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