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This is an interesting topic and one that hits pretty close to home. After all, we're using BB which allows non musicians to generate complete songs that sound like a group of professional musicians played the parts. We're now seeing the beginnings of AI for writing lyrics in the form of chat and apps that are writing complete song lyrics in mere seconds. The quality of the writing is, at this point, fairly poor, however, with time, it will undoubtedly get significantly better. This is a hot topic. Here's Rick Beato's interesting take on what is happening and what might be coming. [video:youtube] https://youtu.be/6IV29YNTH3M[/video]
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 02/17/23 04:54 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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FWIW here is my prediction. Yea AI will get better and begin creating complete songs. But somewhere down the line some kids will get the idea to jam and it will be new again. Much like grunge taking over the super polished hair bands. OR like the Foo Fighters recording everything at once like it was done in the past.
Also audiophile is a thing of the past. No one is critically listening to music anymore, or at least very few are listening like they did in the 1950s and 60s.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I generally agree with many things Rick says. We will always have Live musicians creating music. We will likely have BIAB or something like it for years to come.
The question is less about how music gets generated than who gets paid. Who gets paid does not always require producing a quality product. We buy a ton of crap every day.
For us here, using BIAB to create songs, who gets paid, is mostly irrelevant. Only a few are getting paid.
Even if a person is a highly skilled musician using any method of production, the results will be the same in most cases. Post on SoundCloud or another site and get a hand full of views. Some magic happens, and you get 5000 views...wow! So what? Get 500,000 views, and things began to change. Get five million views, and a bit of money starts to come in, but you are still basically a nobody.
A few people do win the lottery. A few become well-known musicians, and a few of them get super well-paid. Perhaps someone will hit the jackpot with a BIAB song. Most anything is possible, just not very likely.
All of this comes down to this question. Do you want to be in the music business, or do you want to create music to entertain yourself and a few friends?
There is some uncomfortable truth about living in the USA in 2023. The Walmart parking lot is running over with cars. There is plenty of parking at Neiman Marcus. The ever-ongoing decline of the middle class is causing us to buy less quality music and other goods and services, at higher prices, with less customer service.
There is also a severe lack of regard for quality products. Does an internet-downloaded MP3 played through the headset on a smartphone in any way compared with a vinal album with cover art with written information played through a high-quality stereo system?
Well, it sucks, as I am on my way to Walmart as soon as I get up from this computer!
Billy
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Formulaic writing has been around as long as printed music. Indeed, there have been many attempts to automate it over the centuries, though Mozart's dice game was likely written in jest. The Brill Building, Tin Pan Alley, Hollywood, Denmark St. (London), Nashville… All had writers beating each other up by copying each other looking for that little spark that generates a hit. from Denmark St. (Kinks)
You go to a publisher and play him your song
He says, "I hate your music and you hair is too long
But I'll sign you up because I'd hate to be wrong"
You've got a tune, it's in your head, you want to get it placed
So you take it down to a music man, just to see what he will say
He says, "I hate the tune, I hate the words, I'll tell you what I'll do
I'll sign you up and take it round the street
And I'll see if it makes the grade
And you might even hear it played on the rock and roll hit parade"
Ray Davies Let's see… A machine writes your words Another machine writes your music Yet another arranges it or You download loops, cut copy and paste Did you actually create anything? Are you be proud of it? No thanks.
BIAB 2026 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia/Tahoe, M1 & M5 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, Logic, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScore/Notion/Overture
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Amazing that Rick video is a year old!! One wonders what has changed in a year.
I am so intrigued by this topic. My LyricLab app is doing really quite well. People love it, but many are saying, “okay, so this is great but how do I put music to these lyrics?”. My standard answer is “well, I use Band-in-a-box to provide musical ideas. I enter a chord progression and style that inspires me and then I sing and play along, making changes to the chords and lyrics until I am happy (ish).”
But even that is a bridge too far for many of the people who have subscribed to my app.
There is a market for a simple tool that will take a lyric and generate chords and melody (along with a AI vocal). And that will be an awesome starting point for many people who want to experience the joy of writing (and eventually performing) their own songs.
Now just to find that tool!
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Songwriting
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Amazing that Rick video is a year old!! One wonders what has changed in a year.
I am so intrigued by this topic. My LyricLab app is doing really quite well. People love it, but many are saying, “okay, so this is great but how do I put music to these lyrics?”. My standard answer is “well, I use Band-in-a-box to provide musical ideas. I enter a chord progression and style that inspires me and then I sing and play along, making changes to the chords and lyrics until I am happy (ish).”
But even that is a bridge too far for many of the people who have subscribed to my app.
There is a market for a simple tool that will take a lyric and generate chords and melody (along with a AI vocal). And that will be an awesome starting point for many people who want to experience the joy of writing (and eventually performing) their own songs.
Now just to find that tool!
You app, while still in the primitive first stages, will undoubtedly improve as you refine it and add to it. Currently, it does provide grist from which one can, with a bit of effort and grey matter, produce a workable lyric that would otherwise not have existed before.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Joined: Jun 2021
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Expert
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Here’s how I have used AI (or something like it) and why I don’t feel like I am compromising my human creativity.
As mentioned elsewhere, I have this software that generates music using fractal mathematics. You configure a bunch of settings and request a certain amount of musical matter and voila, you get a 4-track MIDI file. In its raw form, this MIDI music sounds pretty boring as there’s no instrumentation specified, just notes, but I then take this raw material and explode tracks into multiple parts, assign instruments and processes and effects, and edit like mad, doing anything at all that sounds good to me, and in the end I get a finished piece that sounds pretty good.
I do, however, wonder, “Who wrote it?” I hear things in this music’s complex harmonies that I like a lot but do not understand at all, and so hesitate to take composer credit for. It’s not like the software was a tool of convenience; there’s no way I would have been able to create that quartet on my own at all, not one single bar.
BUT… the raw MIDI played back using a default piano sound sounds dinky and boring and old-fashioned video-gamey while my finished piece sounds, I think, like real music. And I would like to claim some major authorship credit for that real music, though it would be really best characterized as a collaboration with the software. I will happily call this music “mine”, and tag it with my name, as its creator — but I would never think to publish it without explaining its mechanical origin, so the listener/reader can think what they will. *
Of course, there’s a very different level of AI engagement that appears to be dawning all around us: prompt-based generation of finished material given nothing but a few words. “Sad song about railroads in the style of Mozart”, that sort of thing. Taken to its extreme you can even just say, “Give me a song” and get something. That’s what is freaking people out, the idea of the complete disappearance of a human role that’s something other than product consumer.
BUT… with good AI tools, you won’t just say, “Give me a song”, you’ll engage in a long iterative process where the AI offers material and you request it to refine or expand it in some way, and this gets repeated over and over and built upon until you have a robust product with your human creativity all through it. Like: in the middle of a sax solo, you direct the AI to modify a previously-generated phrase to be “Irish-sounding” and add a lyric line about sheep. You do that for hours and hours, for several days, adding and subtracting and refining material until in the end you have something you’re willing to put your name on and which, I think, you will be 100% humanly entitled to.
Advances in AI will result, not in elimination of the human role, but in advances and innovations in the human artistic processes that use it. And I for one can’t wait to play with MusicLM.
Mark
——
* Interestingly (to me) I’ve used the exact same approach to music creation with stuff like farm recordings of chickens and roosters as raw material, using software to convert crowing and clucking and water bowl banging into MIDI melodies and going to town from there. In that case, there’s no AI to share credit with, so I don’t see who else there is to blame this stuff for but me. =8^)
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Advances in AI will result, not in elimination of the human role, but in advances and innovations in the human artistic processes that use it. And I for one can’t wait to play with MusicLM. That of course has been the story of technological advancement since the dawn of technology. What happens is that the tasks we perform evolve so that we do different tasks and have a greater productivity (even if sometimes it doesn't feel that way). Mostly it's ended up being for the best.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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BUT… with good AI tools, you won’t just say, “Give me a song”, you’ll engage in a long iterative process where the AI offers material and you request it to refine or expand it in some way, and this gets repeated over and over and built upon until you have a robust product with your human creativity all through it. I think we are there with lyrics on ChatGPT. I've noticed that the more detail I can give it on my request, the more satisfying result I get. Better detail helps AI produce better results.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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This will be everybody, soon enough. Sci-fi magazine halts new submissions after a surge in AI-written stories I recently told one of my clients that my VO fee is doubled if I am given AI generated copy to read. It takes me longer to edit it into something good than to write the copy from scratch. "Just tell me what you want it to say…" They paid it, BTW and were much happier with my revised copy.
BIAB 2026 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia/Tahoe, M1 & M5 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, Logic, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScore/Notion/Overture
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One of the only AI Music companies out there that can vet 100% copyright and royalty free music is Aimi.fm
Unlike other ai music companies, their content is NOT trained on existing material. Instead, they trained the AI to make music the way a producer would - in other words, it understands the rules and structures of different genres of music and uses this information to build generative "experiences" in real time.
They just launched a series of products that let you use their tech to make music.
Thought id mention in here for those interested.
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I think it's a matter of "watch this space". There are lots of things happening in this field, no question.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
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One of the only AI Music companies out there that can vet 100% copyright and royalty free music is Aimi.fm
Unlike other ai music companies, their content is NOT trained on existing material. Instead, they trained the AI to make music the way a producer would - in other words, it understands the rules and structures of different genres of music and uses this information to build generative "experiences" in real time. What's next, a perpetual motion machine rhat works?
BIAB 2026 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia/Tahoe, M1 & M5 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, Logic, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScore/Notion/Overture
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A dose of reality. AI Stock Bubble Large Language Models like ChatGPT have run out of stuff to train on, and the more they are trained on "the internet," the more the internet contains a body of work written by AI — degrading the product in question.
BIAB 2026 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia/Tahoe, M1 & M5 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, Logic, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScore/Notion/Overture
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Songwriting
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A dose of reality. AI Stock Bubble Large Language Models like ChatGPT have run out of stuff to train on, and the more they are trained on "the internet," the more the internet contains a body of work written by AI — degrading the product in question. Interesting. In a few songwriter groups I'm in on the media platforms, I'm seeing a bunch of people using AI and claiming they are the writer. The problem is it's really easy to tell because all the songs kinda sound the same and have a common sound quality to them and the lyrics are so similar in composition. It's easy to spot the AI stuff in the first few seconds. It's not hard to believe the story that they've run out of material to train on and the result is they're all outputting the pink slime now. ( A reference to the common ingredient in all fast food)
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,166
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Joined: Apr 2017
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A dose of reality. AI Stock Bubble Large Language Models like ChatGPT have run out of stuff to train on, and the more they are trained on "the internet," the more the internet contains a body of work written by AI — degrading the product in question. Interesting. In a few songwriter groups I'm in on the media platforms, I'm seeing a bunch of people using AI and claiming they are the writer. The problem is it's really easy to tell because all the songs kinda sound the same and have a common sound quality to them and the lyrics are so similar in composition. It's easy to spot the AI stuff in the first few seconds. It's not hard to believe the story that they've run out of material to train on and the result is they're all outputting the pink slime now. ( A reference to the common ingredient in all fast food) Something like that.
BIAB 2026 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia/Tahoe, M1 & M5 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, Logic, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScore/Notion/Overture
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Special Extended Until September 15, 2026! Save over 40 Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows!
We've extended our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs sale until September 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 offer a wide range of genres designed to work seamlessly with your project. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 for Windows or for Mac are on special for only $29 each (reg. $49 ea), or get all 11 PAKs for only $149 (reg. $299)!
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Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 for Windows or for Mac are on special for only $29 each (reg. $49 ea), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! .
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Note: XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs include additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® that work seamlessly with your project. Xtra Styles PAKs and XPro Styles PAKs are NOT included in any Band-in-a-Box® package!
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Special Extended Until September 15, 2026! Save over 40% on XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac!
We've extended our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs sale until September 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 offer a wide range of genres designed to work seamlessly with your project. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 for Mac or for Windows are on special for only $29 each (reg. $49 ea), or get all 11 PAKs for only $149 (reg. $299)!
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with ANY version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-11 includes 1,100 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 for Mac or for Windows are on special for only $29 each (reg. $49 ea), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! .
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 includes 3,900 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
Note: XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs include additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® that work seamlessly with your project. Xtra Styles PAKs and XPro Styles PAKs are NOT included in any Band-in-a-Box® package!
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 11 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
XPro Styles PAK 11 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 (and higher) is here with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 31 RealTracks/RealDrums!
Guess who’s back again? That’s right! It’s our XPro Styles PAK’s triumphant return with the 11th edition in this series! 100 new styles are coming your way spread across the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres. And this edition's wildcard genre explores the immense and far-reaching catalogue of electronic music! The included 31 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
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Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
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No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 22.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 22 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 11 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
XPro Styles PAK 11 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 (and higher) is here with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 31 RealTracks/RealDrums!
Guess who’s back again? That’s right! It’s our XPro Styles PAK’s triumphant return with the 11th edition in this series! 100 new styles are coming your way spread across the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres. And this edition's wildcard genre explores the immense and far-reaching catalogue of electronic music! The included 31 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 11 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2026 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2026 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
It’s time to celebrate! Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Band-in-a-Box® is here, and we've got 200 brand-new styles coming your way!
No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 22.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 22 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Peter Gannon Talks Band-in-a-Box with zplane
zplane recently interviewed Peter Gannon, the founder and creator of Band-in-a-Box, about the software's early days, what sets it apart from AI, how zplane's audio algorithms are used in Band-in-a-Box, and more!
Special thanks to the team at zplane for their continued support.
Check out the full interview here: https://products.zplane.de/blog/peter-gannon-interview-pg-music
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