I'm not a civil court judge, but I'd like to offer a settlement deal on the dispute between Henry Clarke and Mike Halloran.
To Henry Clarke You never want to put all your eggs in one basket, let alone Putin's basket. If the US sanctions are getting worse in the future, maybe consider withdrawing from TuneCore and transfer the rights to a distributor on the American soil.
To Mike Halloran You have already given insightful opinions on LOC and legal aspects. Could you also give some advice on the distributors?
90% of the young musicians are not yet famous. All they want is to focus their time on making music, find a reliable distributor to publish, collect some royalty income, publicize on YouTube and TikTok, get attentions, and eventually sign a deal with a record label. The lawyers of the record label will take care of their paperwork on copyright.
I have put up a list of 21 best known online distributors/publishers. Please indicate which ones are legit, which ones are to be avoided. • Amuse • AWAL • CD Baby • DistroKid • Ditto • Fresh Tunes • Horus Music • Landr • Level • ONErpm • Record Union • Repost Network • Reverb Nation • RouteNote • Songtradr • Soundrop • Spinnup • Stem • Symphonic • TuneCore • UnitedMasters
Except for stating that TuneCore is a distributor and quoting that they are not a publisher, I have stuck to Copyright only.
Let’s save distribution for another thread.
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. Like hell. Copy and paste does not misquote.[/quote] I can if, as with your quote from me about 'some wizardry', you cut off half of what I said, leaving an incomplete and out of context extract that you then dispute.
Just saying.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
There are many thousands of such examples, especially from the folk era. As well meaning as such articles are, this time to fix it was when “Paul Campbell” (the name that Pete Seeger, Lee Hays, Ronnie Gilbert and Fred Hellerman used for joint arrangements) registered the copyright for The Weavers—or renewed it 26 years later. Pete Seeger knew who Solomon Linda was. Some BMI registrations do properly credit him but most do not. Any music attorney could have fixed it with an inexpensive lawsuit back then which would have also applied to The Tokens’s recording—but no one ever did. It wasn’t till the late 1960s that anyone had a clue about the monies that could be recovered by such actions. Mr. Linda passed away in 1962. In many countries (incl. Australia), his copyrights expired in 2012; in the EU and USA, they expire 2032 making what would certainly be an expensive lawsuit fruitless.
Publishers are far more aware nowadays. It was Alan Klein who pretty much schooled the world while collecting back royalties for Bobby Vinton before setting his sights on the Stones, Beatles and both sides of “My Sweet Lord/He’s So Fine”.
The 1976 revision to the US Copyright law was designed to make it more difficult for such things to happen again. Not that it can’t happen but nearly every IP attorney since 1978 would recognize this as low hanging fruit were it to surface now.
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I can if, as with your quote from me about 'some wizardry', you cut off half of what I said, leaving an incomplete and out of context extract that you then dispute.
Just saying. [/quote] Gordon,
You have a habit of making broad blanket statements that range between partially accurate and complete nonsense. I quoted one of those nonsense remarks about pitch correction and you are still howling about that?
Others would attempt to be more careful.
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Okay. Copy/paste does not misquote. Here's a copy/paste from the Tunecore website....
Putting ”Publishing” in the title doesn’t make it so—as I pointed out by quoting another page from Tunecore. I have also quoted extensively from the LOC.
Because some are apparently still confused on the issue, Tunecore has no ability to compel monies on behalf of any of their clients unless they, as publishers, have filed the proper forms with the LOC — that they clearly state they do not do.
BTW, I have also pointed out that the PROs are in the same boat. They cannot compel either. It is only the publishers who are able to sue. That both can collect money—and do—has nothing to do with this.
The OP was about Copyright and I have done my best to answer this.
What is your problem with that?
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I quoted one of those nonsense remarks about pitch correction and you are still howling about that?
The bit you quoted was about polishing what one does, not about pitch correction per se, and this is the first time I've mentioned your out of context extract, so I'm hardly "still howling about it".
Edit: Hmm, actually I had mentioned it before. Once. There's been a whole long discussion between-times about "straw man arguments".
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 03/27/2304:56 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Okay. Copy/paste does not misquote. Here's a copy/paste from the Tunecore website....
Putting ”Publishing” in the title doesn’t make it so—as I pointed out by quoting another page from Tunecore. I have also quoted extensively from the LOC.
Because some are apparently still confused on the issue, Tunecore has no ability to compel monies on behalf of any of their clients unless they, as publishers, have filed the proper forms with the LOC — that they clearly state they do not do.
BTW, I have also pointed out that the PROs are in the same boat. They cannot compel either. It is only the publishers who are able to sue. That both can collect money—and do—has nothing to do with this.
The OP was about Copyright and I have done my best to answer this.
What is your problem with that?
LOL, I don't know if Tunecore publishes works or if they just pretend they do on the web. They're of no concern to me. I have no dealing with them in any fashion or form. I have music distributed world wide in a documentary and music played and mentioned by name in a scene in a movie that's also distributed world wide. I get my checks.
Look closely again at Mr. Henry's quote you've referenced and posted multiple times and see if you see where you replaced something he actually wrote with another word that doesn't have the same meaning and changes what he did say into what you're thinking he said.
I quoted one of those nonsense remarks about pitch correction and you are still howling about that?
The bit you quoted was about polishing what one does, not about pitch correction per se, and this is the first time I've mentioned your out of context extract, so I'm hardly "still howling about it".
Perhaps taking things out of context is why you think they're nonsense.
I would most certainly not suggest that few recordings over the last 60 years did not have pitch correction, which is what your response suggested I said.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
When I was v v young , my family and I lived in africa…. so thanks for the beeb article..v interesting. thats an excellent song.
MV.
re…your comment re a poor muso.
well…maybe a poor muso sees music as a way to a better life for the family ? some make it n' some dont sadly. i heard sooo much great music growing up in africa that the wider world might not be aware of.
having had the benefit of discussions with music biz insiders , i have no interest in music biz success. cos one loses one's private life from what ive been told. i'm content with just having lots of fun creating songs for enjoyment and if other people like em' too that makes me v happy.
i DO WONDER whether people posting their song creations in the pg showcase should get advice before doing so ? I dunno.
LOL ... I appreciate you guys quoting or not quoting what I said but I've moved on from this and the forum. You guys have at it and have fun. I no longer have a dog in this fight ! :-)
Why bother with a few negative comments, when there are tons and tons of people on YouTube want to consume your content?
As I mentioned in my previous post, the only complaint people have on YouTube, is "why is Henry Clarke not making more amazing BiaB tutorials like this?"
To Henry, YouTube is a whole new world, where this forum is a hole new whirled.
A Canadian music producer, singer songwriter, composer, and professional guitarist.
... and most of those come from a small number of people who perhaps forget that communication by text can be a very blunt instrument indeed.
All the best Henry.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
communication by text can be a very blunt instrument indeed.
Words and phrases are also used differently in some locales and it can be a profound difference. A misread inflection or punctuation oversight can make a huge difference to interpretation.
I have a punctuation example I read recently that amuses me. YMMV,
I like cooking my wife and my children. Commas save lives!
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
I'm not sure if this discussion is still relevant in the future ? The problem with copyright is: how can something that is available in limited quantity be appropriated in any way?
In the meantime, 2 Americans, Damien Riehl and Noah Rubin, have published most of the melodies under a Creative Commons Zero license. http://allthemusic.info/faqs/
All melody possibilities are calculated and published by an algorithm. The project is still ongoing, as far as I know.
Example: Somebody wrone a song and filed PA Unpublished. Famous folk singer friend records it in the 1960s—song is uncredited but her record company pays the mechanicals. Famous English band releases their version song. 1978 Law takes effect. Fourteen years later, the writer’s daughter hears song at party and says, “I didn’t know you knew any (band name here). Writer wants credit and back royalties—attorney find out there’s no Published certificate and won’t take case till it is filed. Writer files; attorney sues. Band countersues for Copyright violation. Court tells both sides to settle—which they do—but rules that no monies are due before the date of that certificate, even though Famous folk singer’s recording is now over 20 years old and that record company knew who the writer was. Writer takes this to the Court of Chancery and is told that UK is the same as the US: no royalties due before the Published date. Estimates are that writer was out about $18M.
Since this happened before the World Wide Web, almost no one is able to look this up but it was widely reported at the time. Anybody know the song, band, writer, folk singer? The band shouldn’t be too hard to guess.
Just curious Mike, could you share more to this story for us? I'm curious to know more and what song / artist this case pertained to. It does sound like quite the cautionary tale.
Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran
It depends. Multiple registrations, each covering different aspects of a recording, are quite common but nothing to worry about now. Should you get to that stage, your attorney should be involved—and yes, you will need one. Should you be so lucky, it could easily be a complex negotiation involving multiple attorneys.
I've spoken to an attorney, but she didn't know the answer to this.
Could you explain a bit how the song gets registered separately as a PA and SR, and the uses for such separate registration? (Better licensing terms, protection, etc.)
I should be able to get to that later this week. Problem is that very few of us remember anymore and all I found on Justia is single paragraph—and it got the decade wrong.
That a music attorney doesn’t know the difference between PA and SR is troubling, indeed. It’s on the form SR. There is—or used to be—an excellent FAQ in the LOC on this. I’ll see if I can find the right link.
Not today, however.
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I should be able to get to that later this week. Problem is that very few of us remember anymore and all I found on Justia is single paragraph—and it got the decade wrong.
That a music attorney doesn’t know the difference between PA and SR is troubling, indeed. It’s on the form SR. There is—or used to be—an excellent FAQ in the LOC on this. I’ll see if I can find the right link.
Not today, however.
Thanks Mike!
I believe the lawyer knew the difference between PA and SR, I should have elaborated more on the question - I was trying to figure out the benefits of registering each song separately, 1 PA registration and 1 SR registration for each song.
The reason being better licensing terms and such, in case a song does take off.
I'm still trying to understand that part of the music business - whether registering each song twice (once as PA, once as SR) can prevent headache, or provide much benefit, down the line.
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