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#773420 08/10/23 10:32 AM
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Question 1 is whether going up in level of software (and level of money) ups the number of available styles.

That was prompted by my going through country styles for about 90 minutes, previewing trying to find one that fits what I want to accomplish. I didn't find anything close.

Details. I would like to work up a backing track for Tanya Tucker's "It's A Little Too Late". In the style screens, where you can type in the name of a song and get options, I typed in that song name and got a pulldown that literally showed me "Tanya Tucker - It's a Little Too Late." When I clicked through that I got a list of 226 styles, none of which were ANYTHING CLOSE to the groove of that song that some would call swing and some would call shuffle. (Can someone try to tell me just from the title what a style called "Ol' Dusty Trails" is supposed to sound like? How about "Country Wasteland"? Or "Perky Swinging Songwriter"? Who names these styles anyway?)

Just an FYI. Hank Williams has been dead since 1953. Why do so many style names have simply "Hank" in the title? A good portion of your userbase likely have no idea who he was, and with the lack of interest in actually learning about music to a depth where the younger generation would go back into the dusty crates and find his albums, why is he even relevant to a level where so many styles have his name in them? How about some styles like Clarkson? Underwood? Paisley? Brooks? We are 23 years into the 2000s now and it's time for some fresh meat.

Take a listen to that Tanya Tucker song and see if you can come up with a style even remotely close. I know at least 5 people are going to say "Make your own style." Well, if the drums are wrong, and I don't play drums, how exactly would I do that? I have no interest in making styles (and no knowledge how to go about it). That's why I pay for this stuff. I want to write tracks without it becoming my new science project. The cross referencing between a style search criteria and the result that get spit out are actually humorous. To wit:

I just put in "Do You Know The Way To San Jose" and told it to find a style. The first one in the list was "Hang Ten Vintage Surf Rock". Really?

This area of this software is really lacking.

Get me going on real tracks. Mason (64) shows up 280 times. Darin Favorite (57) 146 times. Brother Oliver Gannon 115 times. Piano is pretty much Lorber, Jarvis, Miles Black and Mike Rojas. Is it just financial? Those old names that have been there since I started with this thing (13 years now?), meaning they have long since been bought and paid for. Do fresher faces want to charge so much for their time that getting some new blood isn't even in the scope of possibility because it will cost money?

All of those people are outstanding musicians. That's not the point. It's a new generation and a new breed of music. Let's get up to date here. Personally I don't care about the little tweaks to visuals, fixing some minor buried bug (that may matter to somebody else), or anything outside of having better real tracks and more styles that are actually distinct and more useful for 2023 music. Brent Mason was and still is great. But we have 3 or 4 times more of him than anybody else available already and its time for new stuff. Keith Urban ever been approached? Brad Paisley? Tom Bukovac? Bryan Sutton?

Last edited by eddie1261; 08/10/23 11:49 AM.
#773516 08/11/23 09:54 AM
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> I would like to work up a backing track for Tanya Tucker's "It's A Little Too Late". Take a listen to that Tanya Tucker song and see if you can come up with a style even remotely close.
> Brent Mason was and still is great. But we have 3 or 4 times more of him than anybody else available already and its time for new stuff.

The guitars on that original recording of Tanya Tucker “It’s a Little Too Late” we’re played by … Brent Mason
- so chances are good for finding a BiaB country shuffle style with Brent Mason RealTracks that works well with that!
- here’s a website where the guy teaches the lead to the tune https://countryguitarchops.com/product/little-too-late-guitar-lesson/


Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
#773527 08/11/23 12:34 PM
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Thank you for responding Doctor Gannon.

Is what I am looking for shuffle or is it swing? Or is it shwing? Or swuffle? Ask 21 people what that groove is called and you get a vote of 11-10.

Brent did indeed play on that track, 30 years ago, but his parts don't make it a style. Roger Murrah and Pat Terry made it in a specific style. Trust me, Dr. Gannon, I spent 90 minutes sampling styles and nothing was even close. Though the style picker gave me suggestions, none of them were within 5 miles (8 kilometers for you) of correct. When the search algorithm actually lists that song by that artist, and none of the styles are even close, why bother?

Now THIS, I just had to do. You may have to zoom.



226 styles come back under the name and artist. The first 7 are Celtic?? Please tell me the connection that Ol' Tanya, from Seminole Texas, 25 miles from the New Mexico border, has to Celtic music. By the time I took out the styles that were natively far too fast or natively far too slow (to where they would sound horrible done at the 148 or so the song in question is, and the styles (like Celtic) that have no connection, I ended up with about 40, and not one of them worked. At all. There shows to be 7,175 styles. Many of them are _STYLENAMEv1, v2 and v3, close to the same thing with some small tweak.

Some of those styles that come up in searches are actually comical. Can that search algorithm be tightened up some so looking for a swing or a shuffle doesn't give us a surf beat? And who names those styles? I keep waiting to see names like "One bad apple" or "Gum on my tennis shoe". The last version showed 5 style picker enhancements, but no mention of new styles.

My original post included this.

"I just put in "Do You Know The Way To San Jose" and told it to find a style. The first one in the list was "Hang Ten Vintage Surf Rock". Really?" Surf rock? From Bert Bacharach?

The web site you linked to, well, I'll just say that I am not paying 20 bucks to listen to a guitar lick that I, with the ear I have, was able to play after hearing it once. To be fair, there honestly isn't much I'd pay 20 bucks for.

I have made some assumptions about the lack of enlargement of the style and track samples options that were all largely financial. I am not going to ask you anything about that in public view but I would SO value a brief private conversation about it. (I keep coming back to) Brent Mason, and his 288 samples, is now old news. Tom Bukovac, Keith Urban, Brad Paisley... there are some strong country players out there who would provide a much welcomed breath of fresh air if they would provide samples that we can turn into solos, though none of them would do it for $50 and a case of beer. (Well, Tom might!) I can only speak for me, and I can imagine that many would agree but never say this out loud for the same reason they wouldn't try to get behind the curtain to try and see the wizard (Because NOBODY gets to see the wizard), I but have heard just about all I want from that list of guitar players dominated by about 6-8 names.

#773548 08/11/23 05:15 PM
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Eddie,

When I search for that song, I don’t see celtic listed first. I likely have more styles installed.
I see
_ambush
_scoot
_get_out
_Cowherd
__harness

none of which are celtic. Some of those are from add-on styles disks like xtra or xpro.

Anyway, if you want a shuffle, just type in the word shuffle in the filter that you do get, and those celtic styles,will disappear.
You’ll see country shuffle styles like _roping, _cboogif, _boogbrt, _cswngmp, _cboogm3, _cboogm4, _conshps, _nworstx, oddstar

Lots of those sound good to me. Especially if you add a Brent Mason soloist like 1283, 4061, 2685, 1586,
If you still don’t like the list, change the tempo from 145 to 130.


Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
#773578 08/12/23 05:02 AM
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I need to clarify that I ran that search like you did and got the same results, but to take that screen scrape I sorted them by genre so they were together.

#773588 08/12/23 06:39 AM
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This is what sent me down the Tanya Tucker as recreated by Real Band rabbit hole. This is Brent Mason, Bryan Sutton and Tom Bukovac just hanging out and talking and that opening lick that Mason played came up.

The whole video is very entertaining but to hear the pertinent stuff go in to about 15 minutes.

+++ A Little Too Late +++ conversation.

Last edited by eddie1261; 08/12/23 02:37 PM.
#773658 08/12/23 11:40 PM
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< "Take a listen to that Tanya Tucker song and see if you can come up with a style even remotely close. I know at least 5 people are going to say "Make your own style." Well, if the drums are wrong, and I don't play drums, how exactly would I do that?" >

BOOGBRT.Sty is close. The drums are wrong in the Style but I downloaded a free midi version of the song and imported the drums from that file and that made it very close and Useable. According to what I read about the song, it's considered a two-step. The Style will need a pedal steel and fiddle added to be more accurate to the record.

I filtered by the song and 'Brent' in the search filter that presented 49 results from the 10,656 styles in my StylePicker. BOOGBRT.Sty was second down the list.

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#774099 08/17/23 12:13 PM
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Eddie i get ya, but i had to chuckle a bit at the dialog. You want to create a Tanya Tucker Tune from over 30 years ago but don't want to use Its from players from that era. I don't think Keith Urban is going to be much help on that tune, since he was just a wee lad!.

Anyway, just had to rib you a little on that one, here's hoping your new neighbors in Pittsburg are not reading this!


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#774218 08/18/23 04:24 PM
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Old songs can always use a facelift. I am 4 songs into a project doing old songs in different grooves. My point about styles and solo samples for real tracks is that 288 guitar tracks are Brent Mason. Great player, but he is Brent Mason 288 times.

I will redo that TT song as country but with a little bit different arrangement. Old songs done in reggae, ska, metal, and boogie piano. I plan to "cosmic cowboy" that TT song up some.

As far as those Yinzers o'vair in Picksburg, I honestly think it's a great city. I have had a ton of fun o'vair, especially exploring the Strip District.

Last edited by eddie1261; 08/18/23 04:24 PM.
#777740 10/06/23 06:05 AM
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Eddie how’s it going on this project? Here’s a thought why use styles at all if your working in RB start with a chord sheet for the song. Add a simple piano or strummed guitar similar to the one in Tanya song. Then search for a drum pattern to fit the bill filter towards country. Once you have guitar piano and drums add a bass. Now all you need is to decide if you want pedal steel, fiddle etc. in other words pick RTs separately.



(Oops do tell him, I just showed him how to create a style.) save as a style and call it Tanya1


Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2024, Realband, Reaper, Harrison Mixbus 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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