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#776686 09/23/23 02:09 AM
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Hello everyone,

When I posted the song Completely Lost here a week ago, I wrote I made 2 songs during the 'dark time' I had the last couple of months.
This is the second one. The Dice must roll https://on.soundcloud.com/TrTzv

In fact it is a remix of one of my older songs. I liked the melody, but still I had the feeling it was not what I wanted
I changed a lot of things in it, including the vocals, the lyrics, the key and the tempo (from 90 bpm to 110, but it still feels a bit slow). And, for a change, there are no electric guitars and drums included. I had a hard time on creating the violins, but think they are good by now.

Floyd wrote about the piano's in BiaB that they weren't always suitable for some kind of songs and I agreed on that.
But I could solve it a bit by using two piano's and let them sound like one.
Still I fear I must not underestimate you and your ears ;-)

Let me know if I can improve something.
As you know I like to learn!

Hans

=================
Technical stuff

Style is _PBALLAD.STY (Pop Ballad w/ Symphony) Key: A, Tempo: 110 bpm
RealTracks: 3467:Bass, Electric, AmericanaSyncSteveAB Ev16 085
RealTracks: 3670:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm NewAgeHalfNoteChords Ev 085
RealTracks: 1006:Piano, Acoustic, Solo

Strings made on my keyboard with 'String Ensemble' from Native instruments
Mastering in Ozone 11 (still a learning process)


Hans Berkhout
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Hans,

A lot of heavy thinking in that write...
Nice.
Serious.

I like the idea of the arrangement. Mostly piano with lush strings filling out.
The pianos sound "weird" - so often the case with the BIAB piano RTs.
They sound Phase-y.
Switching between piano RTs highlights that further.
Using MIDI SuperTracks with a good piano VST fixes that (if MSTs exist for both RTs). Surprised you did not go that way.

The strings are nicely done.
The BGVs on the chorus work really well.

I like your serious, thoughtful song.

fj

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Hans,

Love the introspective feeling of this song. Your vocal is great and matches the mood perfectly.

I also like the production - it's so well balanced and big sounding.

Excellent!

Bob

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Enjoyed this song a lot, particularly the lyrics - but the whole production is, for me, excellent.

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Hello Floyd,

Thanks for your nice reply on the song.
It is a 'heavy' song. I had some hard times and couldn't have sunny thoughts.
This song came up in my head all that time. I know why, but let me conclude with that I liked the melody. The darker the better...
And it was true. I really had those dreams when I was young.
But thanks for liking this song.

Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Hans,

A lot of heavy thinking in that write...
Nice.
Serious.

I like the idea of the arrangement. Mostly piano with lush strings filling out.
The pianos sound "weird" - so often the case with the BIAB piano RTs.
They sound Phase-y.
Switching between piano RTs highlights that further.
Using MIDI SuperTracks with a good piano VST fixes that (if MSTs exist for both RTs). Surprised you did not go that way.

The strings are nicely done.
The BGVs on the chorus work really well.

I like your serious, thoughtful song.

fj


Floyd, about those pianos and alternatives in midi; I prefer real tracks. I tried to find my way with midi piano versions, but they were not what I was looking for. They didn't sound so realistic. I had the same with your midi piano. Sounds great, but still not natural.
I had problems with phasing. Don't know if you call them y or z, but I used some plug-ins to make the sound more realistic. But i could not achieve the real sound I had in my head. Only in the verses.

The strings were at first single notes (in midi ;-)), then I alered them some days ago into two or triple chords and found that more pleasing. But it was a lot of work. Can you imagine?
The BGV's were at first conventional high and low vocals (my own), but while recording also a few days ago, I changes tones and then I liked the low and lower vocals more. So I changed them. That is what you hear.
Thanks for listening so well and what you told me about the piano sounds.

We'll talk again,
Hans


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Nice production and write.

I found the piano jumpy, but since I play a bit of piano, I'm probably pickier than most.

Sounded good on the second listen, too. smile


-- David Cuny
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Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
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Such a beautiful song, Hans. I remember when you first sent it to me. You made be believe it was total crap. HA! Well, there goes my respect for your opinion. This song is so good, man. Those lyrics don't need a drummer; they are impactful enough. I like how you fashioned the piano(s). Do you ever use the Control+ or ALt+ F8? What a great feature. Harmony on this is superb as is your main vocal. You are back better than ever. Excellent production and mix. Everyting properly placed and emphasized when needed.


Enjoy whatever happens!
marty

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Really good, Hans! Maybe your best yet. Just a brilliant write. Love the vocals as always, especially when you bring in the harmonies.

Well done!

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Hi Bob and James,

Originally Posted By: rsdean
Hans,

Love the introspective feeling of this song. Your vocal is great and matches the mood perfectly.

I also like the production - it's so well balanced and big sounding.

Excellent!

Bob


Bob, thanks for your so kind words. The lyrics just came up in my head. I always need an image of what I want to sing about. The composition of the song took me much longer. I'm glad you like it.


Originally Posted By: musician17
Enjoyed this song a lot, particularly the lyrics - but the whole production is, for me, excellent.


James, I am not surprised you liked the lyrics. Your songs also have lyrics with depth (much more than this one of mine). You like to think about words, I guess. Thanks a lot for your compliments!

Hans


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Those intro pianos jump about a bit - a little snip n stretch can smooth that.
Excellent narrative and perspective.


Cheers
rayc
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The lyric and the melody are haunting in a very good way, Hans.

We like the sparse accompaniment and your vocals are excellent!

These lines reminded us of so many times with our mothers when they would light up talking about memories from their childhood. We both hope to always keep our “inner child” alive.

“I held my soul in my hands

And I stared at that worn out thing

I heard a child crying inside it

I didn't know it was still in”

Again, welcome back!

J&B

PS Love the cover art!

PPS We thought the piano tracks sounded good. But out of curiosity have you tried the MST's? IMHO, they are dramatically different (in a good way) from the regular midis if you have some grand piano sounds.

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Hans, this is a great song.

I really liked the lyrics and your vocal on this one.

I also liked the mix, a drummer would have ruined the mood IMHO.

Great job on those strings.

Your best to date


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Hans

A very good intense song, well sung and produced.

Nice use of strings. Piano had some odd moments but overall it worked.

Peter

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Hans,
Good, deep song. Simple and effective instrumental, good vocals and balance between the two. Clear mix. I am with David C. and Ray on jumpiness of that piano, but also read your comment on FJ request. There are a few good Super Midi pianos in BIAB.
Thank you for sharing.

Misha.

rayc #777295 10/01/23 08:26 AM
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Hi David, Marty, Dave and Ray,

My reaction is a bit late. Maybe I told you this could happen. Medically speaking it's still a long way to go.
But I am really glad I can make songs again and sing them too. No AI for me now...

Originally Posted By: dcuny
Nice production and write.
I found the piano jumpy, but since I play a bit of piano, I'm probably pickier than most.
Sounded good on the second listen, too. smile


Hi David, I am really glad the second listen gave you a good impression. Phew!
I was a bit puzzled about the jumpiness of the piano. I tried to solve some things about it, but the problem was I didn't hear that jumpiness.
I listened on severall sound sources, with and without headphones, but no jumpiness for me.
Still I changed mixing issues, eq's etcetera. I hope the jumpiness is lees or -better- gone.

Originally Posted By: BabuMusic
Such a beautiful song, Hans. I remember when you first sent it to me. You made be believe it was total crap. HA! Well, there goes my respect for your opinion. This song is so good, man. Those lyrics don't need a drummer; they are impactful enough. I like how you fashioned the piano(s). Do you ever use the Control+ or ALt+ F8? What a great feature. Harmony on this is superb as is your main vocal. You are back better than ever. Excellent production and mix. Everyting properly placed and emphasized when needed.


Hi Marty, yes I sent you some earlier versions of this song (and some others), because you never get bored hearing them ;-)
I wrote to David what I did to 'fashion' the piano's. I think you heard an improved version here. I am on the right track I believe.
And about Alt-F8? Yes I use them, but not in the case of the piano's. Piano 1 had a lot of different kind of plays, or rendered results, but I couldn't use one part of it. They were to different from eachother and that would have given me problems in the rest of the song.
And since I can't play a piano or keyboard as in the realtracks I used them instead.
About the drums. I think you heard a version with the drums in it. I listened again and again to the song and then knew the drums have to get out. And i am satisfied. And you too!

Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Really good, Hans! Maybe your best yet. Just a brilliant write. Love the vocals as always, especially when you bring in the harmonies.

Well done!


Hello Dave, well, I was shining the day I read your post; "maybe my best yet!" Thanks man!

Originally Posted By: rayc
Those intro pianos jump about a bit - a little snip n stretch can smooth that.
Excellent narrative and perspective.


Hey Ray, snip'n and strech'n a piano is too high for me, I think You are the master of doing that! I fear that jumpiness can't be solved by me (yet).
Thanks for your compliments.

If you can explain that jumpiness for me in a clever way, I'm all ears.

Hans


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The piano and strings fit the song very well!

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The piano vocal beginning sounds so real and true. I like the build up with the strings and vocal harmonies. Solid lyrics, pure poetry.


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Hi Janice and Bud, Mario, Peter and Misha,

I was sooo busy with the piano sounds and after that I had an idea for another song, I completely forgot to reply to your so nice posts.
Shame on me!!! Very very sorry. I think my surgery did strange things to my behavior.
The voice seems fine, but otherwise...

Well, thanks a lot for your nice reactions to the Dice. I will reply to you all personally under the copy of your message here.
Hans

Originally Posted by Janice & Bud
The lyric and the melody are haunting in a very good way, Hans.
We like the sparse accompaniment and your vocals are excellent!
These lines reminded us of so many times with our mothers when they would light up talking about memories from their childhood. We both hope to always keep our “inner child” alive.

“I held my soul in my hands

And I stared at that worn out thing

I heard a child crying inside it

I didn't know it was still in”

Again, welcome back!
J&B
PS Love the cover art!

PPS We thought the piano tracks sounded good. But out of curiosity have you tried the MST's? IMHO, they are dramatically different (in a good way) from the regular midis if you have some grand piano sounds.

Hi Janice and Bud, what a nice reply! I guessed that if you would reply about the song, you certainly would quote that part of the child inside. And you did!
It was my mother always telling me about the child inside yourself. I liked the picture. So, she is also here...

I listened to some mst's and even tried some piano sounds from Native Instruments with it too. Indeed also some grand piano's. But I was not satisfied.
My own pianoplay is too simple and I was thinking of calling a friend who can play it very well, but decided to mix the 2 piano's from BiaB. Good enough I thought.
And thanks again for the welcome, but you noticed I'm still not yet well enough...

Originally Posted by MarioD
Hans, this is a great song.
I really liked the lyrics and your vocal on this one.
I also liked the mix, a drummer would have ruined the mood IMHO.
Great job on those strings.

Your best to date

Hi Mario, thanks a lot for that nice reply! And what a compliment too!!
I had a version with percussion in it, but it felt wrong (in a way). So I skipped it, and some other instruments too.
The string took me a lot of time, but i was satisfied too!

Originally Posted by PeterF
Hans
A very good intense song, well sung and produced.
Nice use of strings. Piano had some odd moments but overall it worked.
Peter

Hello Peter, very nice what you wrote. Thanks! yes that piano was a challenge. In fact to keep both piano's in line. But 'jumpiness' puzzled me. I didn't hear that.
What I heard was that where the first piano had to make place for the other (darker) one, there was a kind of overlap. I changed that afterwards. If I dealt with the problem I don't know.
Sometimes I wish I was a better pianoplayer...

Originally Posted by Rustyspoon#
Hans,
Good, deep song. Simple and effective instrumental, good vocals and balance between the two. Clear mix. I am with David C. and Ray on jumpiness of that piano, but also read your comment on FJ request. There are a few good Super Midi pianos in BIAB.
Thank you for sharing.

Misha.

Hi Misha, very nice of you to write these words. Thanks! Every once in a while I want to make 'deep' songs. I like what they do (to me) while composing or singing them. you have deep songs too, maybe you understand what I mean then.
I have written some words about that piano sound and the mst's. I think my search isn't over yet ;-)

As I said in my intro here, sorry for the delay in responding.
I hope you have a nice day anyway,
Hans


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Hello Alexander and Elliott,

As I wrote in my last post above, I am very sorry that I forgot to respond to your very nice posts.
That is what happens when you make 3 songs in a short time and some other things... ;-(

Originally Posted by Alexander Paul
The piano and strings fit the song very well!

Hi Alexander, well, i am very glad with your answer on that piano issue. Maybe it is because shortly before you posted your message, I made some changings in the sound in the mix on the piano's (eq, avoided some overlaps between the 2 piano's I used, etc). whatever it is, you liked the sound and that is the most important thing. Thanks for this!

Originally Posted by Elliott Kayne
The piano vocal beginning sounds so real and true. I like the build up with the strings and vocal harmonies. Solid lyrics, pure poetry.

Hello Eliott, I am glad with your reply too, where it concerns the sound of the piano. But beside that, thanks a lot for you very nice words on the song itself!

Have a nice, creative weekend,
Hans


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