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It's funny, but I honestly had never thought about this until someone asked me, and I realized I don't really know the specific answer
There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
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A line out signal is a specific voltage and impedance standard. The headphone out can be set with the right gain to approximate the correct line out level if you get lucky, but the impedance is still 'off' by a bit.
Unfortunately, some consumer equipment will muddy the waters by labelling one output as both.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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What Matt said.
Plus of course a headphone output should have enough power to drive at least most headphones, where a line output most probably will not.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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A line out signal is a specific voltage and impedance standard. The headphone out can be set with the right gain to approximate the correct line out level if you get lucky, but the impedance is still 'off' by a bit.
Unfortunately, some consumer equipment will muddy the waters by labelling one output as both. I'm not used to seeing stereo Line Outs — yikes! Headphone Outs are not Line level but doesn't mean you can't use them in a pinch—or at least try. Another thing that's confusing is that interfaces can have inputs labelled Line In and clueless Marketing departments will state that you can hook up your keyboards etc. when Engineering designed them as Line level inputs. MOTU did that with the M4—when we hooked up our keys, they could barely be heard. MOTU fixed the ads and documentation eventually. Most keyboards need Instrument level inputs, BTW. The TRS center jack on most interface CombiJacks is where they plug in.
BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer 11, LogicPro Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
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Strange - something I knew & understood, on a functional level due to experiments with tape copying etc., as a teen in the 70s.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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I liked it when things were simpler in that the line out jacks were most likely for RCA red and white plugs, whereas the headphone jack was 1/4” or later 1/8” for phone plugs.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I liked it when things were simpler in that the line out jacks were most likely for RCA red and white plugs, whereas the headphone jack was 1/4” or later 1/8” for phone plugs. Agreed, bit I also liked it when I could actually read the lettering that said Line Out & Phones.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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I liked it when things were simpler in that the line out jacks were most likely for RCA red and white plugs, whereas the headphone jack was 1/4” or later 1/8” for phone plugs. That's interesting. I've generally disliked RCAs as they've seemed to me a rather unreliable connection. OK when new, but even the good gold ones seem to not last so long. They are nice and compact, though. I've tended to like XLRs, but a friend reasonably argues for 1/4" jacks with "when you trip on a cable, at least they don't bring down the whole PA rack". Always bring lots of gaffer tape. And if the cable runs sideways, 1/4" racks still risk pulling the rack over. Ideally line in and out would also be balanced signals to help avoid hum pickup and the like, so a TRS line jack would have +, - and ground/screen, where a headphone jack would have left, right and ground/screen. XLRs of course have wire connections for +, - and 0V and also a screen, though the 0V and screen might be connected together (IMHO they should not be, but...). On some equipment like PCs and laptops where the mini-jack is labelled with both headphone and line, the obvious way to make things 'right'-ish is to have 0dB on the PC's settings set output to line-level-0dB on the headphone outputs. In truth there are slight differences anyway in exactly what is considered line-level-0dB.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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I liked it when things were simpler in that the line out jacks were most likely for RCA red and white plugs, whereas the headphone jack was 1/4” or later 1/8” for phone plugs.
Agreed, bit I also liked it when I could actually read the lettering that said Line Out & Phones. I agree with both statements.
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
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+1 for 1/4” TRS plugs, but a big minus for 1/8” mini plugs. The connection in the jack gets loose, and if you do make the mistake of treating this as a Line Out into a PA, you risk sounds like thunder at your gig.
As for RCA, yes, that’s not the finest connection either for corrosion, but curiously the S/PDIF digital connection elected to use that type of plug (unless it’s optical). In a pinch, you can even use old RCA cables for digital signals.
No matter the connection type, periodically remove and spray all your cable connections with Deoxit or similar.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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... but a big minus for 1/8” mini plugs. Oh yes ... and trip over a cable with one of those and you'll likely wreck plug, socket and laptop all at the same time.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
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N ... but a big minus for 1/8” mini plugs. Oh yes ... and trip over a cable with one of those and you'll likely wreck plug, socket and laptop all at the same time. Not to mention when the stud breaks clean off and remains stuck in the socket! Anyway, this has all been quite informative, thanks to everyone who helped clear up the matter
There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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