Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
It's funny, but I honestly had never thought about this until someone asked me, and I realized I don't really know the specific answer confused


There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,882
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,882
A line out signal is a specific voltage and impedance standard. The headphone out can be set with the right gain to approximate the correct line out level if you get lucky, but the impedance is still 'off' by a bit.

Unfortunately, some consumer equipment will muddy the waters by labelling one output as both.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,906
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,906
What Matt said.

Plus of course a headphone output should have enough power to drive at least most headphones, where a line output most probably will not.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
A line out signal is a specific voltage and impedance standard. The headphone out can be set with the right gain to approximate the correct line out level if you get lucky, but the impedance is still 'off' by a bit.

Unfortunately, some consumer equipment will muddy the waters by labelling one output as both.


I'm not used to seeing stereo Line Outs — yikes!

Headphone Outs are not Line level but doesn't mean you can't use them in a pinch—or at least try.

Another thing that's confusing is that interfaces can have inputs labelled Line In and clueless Marketing departments will state that you can hook up your keyboards etc. when Engineering designed them as Line level inputs. MOTU did that with the M4—when we hooked up our keys, they could barely be heard. MOTU fixed the ads and documentation eventually.

Most keyboards need Instrument level inputs, BTW. The TRS center jack on most interface CombiJacks is where they plug in.


BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer 11, LogicPro
Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,259
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,259
Strange - something I knew & understood, on a functional level due to experiments with tape copying etc., as a teen in the 70s.


Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,882
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,882
I liked it when things were simpler in that the line out jacks were most likely for RCA red and white plugs, whereas the headphone jack was 1/4” or later 1/8” for phone plugs.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,259
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,259
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I liked it when things were simpler in that the line out jacks were most likely for RCA red and white plugs, whereas the headphone jack was 1/4” or later 1/8” for phone plugs.

Agreed, bit I also liked it when I could actually read the lettering that said Line Out & Phones.


Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,906
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,906
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I liked it when things were simpler in that the line out jacks were most likely for RCA red and white plugs, whereas the headphone jack was 1/4” or later 1/8” for phone plugs.

That's interesting. I've generally disliked RCAs as they've seemed to me a rather unreliable connection. OK when new, but even the good gold ones seem to not last so long. They are nice and compact, though.

I've tended to like XLRs, but a friend reasonably argues for 1/4" jacks with "when you trip on a cable, at least they don't bring down the whole PA rack".

Always bring lots of gaffer tape. laugh
And if the cable runs sideways, 1/4" racks still risk pulling the rack over.

Ideally line in and out would also be balanced signals to help avoid hum pickup and the like, so a TRS line jack would have +, - and ground/screen, where a headphone jack would have left, right and ground/screen. XLRs of course have wire connections for +, - and 0V and also a screen, though the 0V and screen might be connected together (IMHO they should not be, but...).


On some equipment like PCs and laptops where the mini-jack is labelled with both headphone and line, the obvious way to make things 'right'-ish is to have 0dB on the PC's settings set output to line-level-0dB on the headphone outputs. In truth there are slight differences anyway in exactly what is considered line-level-0dB.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,821
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,821
Originally Posted By: rayc
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I liked it when things were simpler in that the line out jacks were most likely for RCA red and white plugs, whereas the headphone jack was 1/4” or later 1/8” for phone plugs.


Agreed, bit I also liked it when I could actually read the lettering that said Line Out & Phones.


I agree with both statements.


I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,882
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,882
+1 for 1/4” TRS plugs, but a big minus for 1/8” mini plugs. The connection in the jack gets loose, and if you do make the mistake of treating this as a Line Out into a PA, you risk sounds like thunder at your gig.

As for RCA, yes, that’s not the finest connection either for corrosion, but curiously the S/PDIF digital connection elected to use that type of plug (unless it’s optical). In a pinch, you can even use old RCA cables for digital signals.

No matter the connection type, periodically remove and spray all your cable connections with Deoxit or similar.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,906
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,906
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
... but a big minus for 1/8” mini plugs.

Oh yes ... and trip over a cable with one of those and you'll likely wreck plug, socket and laptop all at the same time.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts
BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,777
N
Originally Posted By: Gordon Scott
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
... but a big minus for 1/8” mini plugs.

Oh yes ... and trip over a cable with one of those and you'll likely wreck plug, socket and laptop all at the same time.
Not to mention when the stud breaks clean off and remains stuck in the socket! crazy

Anyway, this has all been quite informative, thanks to everyone who helped clear up the matter cool


There's only one thing to do in crisis like this - Sleep on it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®

The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!

His latest video, Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!

Watch: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box


Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!

Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!

Paket | Was ist Neu

Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!

Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!

Learn more about this free update for PowerTracks Pro Audio & download it at www.pgmusic.com/support_windows_pt.htm#2024_5

The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!

The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!

Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.

This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245

The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option

Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!

Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!

For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.

Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.

Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!

Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.

Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!

With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!

Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,662
Posts735,555
Members38,532
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
Jeffrey thomas, skyanderson3, akbrpra, Benfil77, William L
38,532 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 163
DC Ron 101
dcuny 85
rsdean 76
WaoBand 74
Today's Birthdays
jazzkeith, Mavrick20002, Pain-Driven, rolfie, Roycol
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5