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Hi,
The more I learn about Styles the more I am confused.
In brief, I try to assign specific styles to some of the sections of a song, but the result is the style of the 1st bar remaining along the whole song. So frustrating !

I tried to achieve my goal in different manner :
- highlighting (in black) the chosen bar, going to « Styles », « Styles picker », choosing the style, clicking “OK”
- right clicking on the bar, going to « Bar Settings », clicking on « .STY », choosing the style,
clicking “OK”
- clicking on the bar, right clicking on the Style denomination (in the wide black rectangle), clicking on “Change
Style at any bar”, clicking on “Close”
- using the “Multistyles” approach

Nothing worked and I can’t figure out where I act wrong.
Would you know how to solve this ?

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Originally Posted by Papity
Hi,
The more I learn about Styles the more I am confused.
In brief, I try to assign specific styles to some of the sections of a song, but the result is the style of the 1st bar remaining along the whole song. So frustrating !

I tried to achieve my goal in different manner :
- highlighting (in black) the chosen bar, going to « Styles », « Styles picker », choosing the style, clicking “OK”
- right clicking on the bar, going to « Bar Settings », clicking on « .STY », choosing the style,
clicking “OK”
- clicking on the bar, right clicking on the Style denomination (in the wide black rectangle), clicking on “Change
Style at any bar”, clicking on “Close”
- using the “Multistyles” approach

Nothing worked and I can’t figure out where I act wrong.
Would you know how to solve this ?

This method should work, but check that the song isn't frozen first:
Select the bar where you want the Style to change and press the <F5> function key to open the Bar Settings dialog, then select to change the style from there:

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]


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Don't confuse MultiStyles with Changing styles. Two different things.

Use the F5 like you have been. Select the bar when you want the change to occur. But keep in mind the changes do not get reflected/updated in the Mixer. So you don't see the changes, you will only hear the changes at the bar you turned them on until you return to original style at a subsequent bar. Not exactly intuitive.


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Whatever style I choose on further bars, Band in a Box only reminds the first bar style and play it along the whole song.

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Hi Papity.

Could you please outline what the starting style is and what style you change to later on. I'll try it out and see what happens for me.

Regards,
--Noel


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Just upload the song file and someone will see what is or is not wrong.


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I wonder if this is a question that is being obscured by translation.

When Papity changes a style later in the song using F5, he/she writes: "Band in a Box only reminds the first bar style and play it along the whole song" (my emphasis added)

Dan (username MusicStudent) said, and I can verify, that the track names in the Mixer do not change when the style changes. I hear the style change but I don't see anything change in the mixer. Whole new instruments might be playing.

Is that the question here? That the style change works but you don't see visual evidence of that?

And is this really Multisyles, or choosing another style? Papity, you can upload your song (MGU or SGU file) to a free place like Dropbox, put it in a Public area, and post a link to the song here. Then as Dan suggested, we will know for certain.


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Originally Posted by Noel96
Hi Papity.

Could you please outline what the starting style is and what style you change to later on. I'll try it out and see what happens for me.

Regards,
--Noel

Thanks for your proposal, but this happens whatever the styles, I tried many combinations.
Could it be that the problem comes from a bad configuration of the Midi/Audio Driver Setup ?

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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
I wonder if this is a question that is being obscured by translation.

When Papity changes a style later in the song using F5, he/she writes: "Band in a Box only reminds the first bar style and play it along the whole song" (my emphasis added)

Dan (username MusicStudent) said, and I can verify, that the track names in the Mixer do not change when the style changes. I hear the style change but I don't see anything change in the mixer. Whole new instruments might be playing.

Is that the question here? That the style change works but you don't see visual evidence of that?

And is this really Multisyles, or choosing another style? Papity, you can upload your song (MGU or SGU file) to a free place like Dropbox, put it in a Public area, and post a link to the song here. Then as Dan suggested, we will know for certain.

I apologise for my bad english, but I am asking for help in both forums, english and french (my mothertongue), to maximise my chances to find a solution.
You are absolutely right about the bad use of the term "reminds", I should have written "keeps" or something similar.

I will try to explain the situation in a few words.
This is not about multistyles but well about changing styles.
It is not about visual evidence of changing styles but well about styles (audio) that don't change when they should.

I guess the problem comes from a bad setting I "applied" somewhere, but where ?
Could that be in the Midi/Audio Driver Setup ?

NB: The track name doesn't change in the mixer when the style changes, but it changes in the black rectangle below the title of the song, I have seen it a week ago before my problem appeared.

Last edited by Papity; 10/16/23 02:44 PM.
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As I can see, no track is frozen.

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I would suggest try Option > Return to Factory Settings > Most and see if that makes a difference.

Also, I think the only place you see that the Style has changed is directly below the song title window.

Here is a quick example where I changed the style on bar 5. The first image is the original Style:
[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

Here is the Style showing when the song reaches Bar 5:
[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]


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That was the solution, now everything is going well.
Thanks for the suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Papity
That was the solution, now everything is going well.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Great. smile
Which one was the solution?
- Return to Factory Settings?
or
- The only place you see that the Style has changed is directly below the song title window?


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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by Papity
That was the solution, now everything is going well.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Great. smile
Which one was the solution?

Ya, confused


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I have to be honnest , I stopped discussing in this forum about changing styles because knobody seemed to understand my problem, despite their efforts.

Now, I found the solution, by chance, and I wish to share it.
When programming a style for Bar #40 (just an example) I realized it was coming at Bar #80.
I tried with Bar #20 and it came at Bar #40.
So, there is a Factor 2 between what I planned and what I got.

Then I made de connection with the tempo of the styles I used.
In the Bluegrass section I am interested in, the same style appears twice.
e.g. _BLUGRG8 / Feel ev8 / Tempo 260 / Bluegrass Reso Solo 8ths @260 / Set #Half-double
_BLUGRGS / Feel ev16 / Tempo 130 / Bluegrass w/Resonator Guitar Solo / Set RT
I always selected the Style with the 8 in the name, so I guess the above mentionned Factor 2 is the reason for my concern.

Greetings

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I’m trying to understand this explanation.

Are you using one or more RealTracks with a different time base (half-time or, more likely, double-time)? Is that what “Set# half-double” means?

Or are you saying that combining tracks of EV8 with EV16 caused this?


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I recall that you were asked:
Quote
Could you please outline what the starting style is and what style you change to later on.
and your reply was
Quote
Thanks for your proposal, but this happens whatever the styles
Unfortunately, only now you named two specific styles, one of which has a tempo of double the other (260 BPM vs 130 BPM).

If you had answered the original question, this might have been resolved much sooner.

What happens if you choose two styles with same or very similar recommended tempos? Does the Style change then apply at the desired bar correctly?


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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
I’m trying to understand this explanation.

Are you using one or more RealTracks with a different time base (half-time or, more likely, double-time)? Is that what “Set# half-double” means?

Or are you saying that combining tracks of EV8 with EV16 caused this?

In my song, I only use ev8 styles, there are 3 or 4 of them.
I never mixed ev8 and ev16.

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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
I recall that you were asked:
Quote
Could you please outline what the starting style is and what style you change to later on.
and your reply was
Quote
Thanks for your proposal, but this happens whatever the styles
Unfortunately, only now you named two specific styles, one of which has tempo of double the other (260 BPM vs 130 BPM).

If you had answered the original question, this might have been resolved much sooner.

What happens if you choose two styles with same or very similar recommended tempos? Does the Style change then apply at the desired bar correctly?

You are right, I should have given the exact description of the song earlier.

I have chosen 3 or 4 ev8 styles with the same recommended tempo of 260 bpm, but I lowered it to 210 bpm to better fit my song.

The situation is a bit tricky, to have a style applying at bar #40, I have first to go to bar #20 and change the style at this bar. And so on for the other changes, always dividing by 2 the bar number of the desired location and changing there the style.

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This still makes no sense to me, and if this
works for everyone as you describe, it needs attention.

Would you please post the song? You can’t do that here, but you can create a public place on Dropbox for free, upload the song, and post a link here.

You hinted at time base but skipped answering the first part of my question. Are you using any RealTracks with a half or double-time time base?


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When I used different Styles (Realtracks) in the same song, I took care that they were all named with a 8 at the end, they were all ev8, in the Set # column they were all HalfDouble.

The ones I'm using are listed in the Bluegrass Styles section:
- BLU GRG8
- BLU GRF8
- BLU GRA8
- BLU GRM8

- BG BAN8
- BG BDBS8
- BG SHAK8

I will try to post the song later on.

Last edited by Papity; 10/20/23 02:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
This still makes no sense to me, and if this
works for everyone as you describe, it needs attention.

Would you please post the song? You can’t do that here, but you can create a public place on Dropbox for free, upload the song, and post a link here.

You hinted at time base but skipped answering the first part of my question. Are you using any RealTracks with a half or double-time time base?

I uploaded the song (actually a backing track) "Old Dreams" on DropBox.
Here is the link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w17llqqt9xx491014ocn6/Old-Dreams-0-Short.SGU?rlkey=c8un1ez1rzj1enzljrdr5rt5t&dl=0

If you find another way to program a change of style at the right position, I would be very glad.

To answer your question, I am only using Styles with half-time base.
These are: BLUGRG8 Bluegrass Reso Solo 8ths at 260
BLUGRSM8 Classic Bluegrass 8ths-260 w/Mandolin
BGBDBS8 Fast BG 8ths-260 w/Banjo Solo
BLUGRA8 Bluegrass Quartet 8ths at 260
They are called HalfDouble and their LongName begins with (RT n/a)

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It works here.

Originally Posted by Papity
..................................................................
To answer your question, I am only using Styles with half-time base.
These are: BLUGRG8 Bluegrass Reso Solo 8ths at 260
BLUGRSM8 Classic Bluegrass 8ths-260 w/Mandolin
BGBDBS8 Fast BG 8ths-260 w/Banjo Solo
BLUGRA8 Bluegrass Quartet 8ths at 260
They are called HalfDouble and their LongName begins with (RT n/a)


RT(na) is the problem. (na) means Not Available. You either do not have those styles or you have them but have not done a rebuild. Try doing a style rebuild and if you still get the (na) then you do not have those styles. What version of BiaB do you have?

Note rebuild is at the bottom of the style page.


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Originally Posted by MarioD
It works here.

Originally Posted by Papity
..................................................................
To answer your question, I am only using Styles with half-time base.
These are: BLUGRG8 Bluegrass Reso Solo 8ths at 260
BLUGRSM8 Classic Bluegrass 8ths-260 w/Mandolin
BGBDBS8 Fast BG 8ths-260 w/Banjo Solo
BLUGRA8 Bluegrass Quartet 8ths at 260
They are called HalfDouble and their LongName begins with (RT n/a)


RT(na) is the problem. (na) means Not Available. You either do not have those styles or you have them but have not done a rebuild. Try doing a style rebuild and if you still get the (na) then you do not have those styles. What version of BiaB do you have?

Note rebuild is at the bottom of the style page.

I know what N/A means, but then what about these 4 above mentionned styles ? What are they ?
I don't know if you are able to listen to the song (I uploaded it on DropBox) of which I posted a link in my previous message.
Please do it and if possible explain me how I can hear these "sounds" or "styles".

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I forgot to tell you that I own Band in a Box Pro + Midi Soloist Set 5 (Bluegrass Soloing ReatTracks).

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Originally Posted by Papity
Originally Posted by MarioD
It works here.

Originally Posted by Papity
..................................................................
To answer your question, I am only using Styles with half-time base.
These are: BLUGRG8 Bluegrass Reso Solo 8ths at 260
BLUGRSM8 Classic Bluegrass 8ths-260 w/Mandolin
BGBDBS8 Fast BG 8ths-260 w/Banjo Solo
BLUGRA8 Bluegrass Quartet 8ths at 260
They are called HalfDouble and their LongName begins with (RT n/a)


Rebuild has been made but there is no change.

RT(na) is the problem. (na) means Not Available. You either do not have those styles or you have them but have not done a rebuild. Try doing a style rebuild and if you still get the (na) then you do not have those styles. What version of BiaB do you have?

Note rebuild is at the bottom of the style page.

I know what N/A means, but then what about these 4 above mentionned styles ? What are they ?
I don't know if you are able to listen to the song (I uploaded it on DropBox) of which I posted a link in my
previous message.
Please do it and if possible explain me how I can hear these "sounds" or "styles".

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Best I can tell from your upload is all is working. You are changing the styles a Bars 8, 46, and 64 using F5 which is correct. I have all these styles and the associated RTs ( No N/As here)

But the styples are so similar that I can barely differentiate them when they change - especially since they are operating at such stretched tempos. There is a visually indication that they change, and I do see this change occur, but this is very obscure (we have long asked for the mixer to change when the styple changes, it currently does not).

Here is the style at Bar 1 and Bar 8.

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in][img]

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

What you may want to do instead of changing the whole style, simply change the single RT. Also, set tempo to 130! Is that so bad? It may help you hear the change. Good Luck.

Last edited by MusicStudent; 10/31/23 09:30 AM.

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Thanks for listening.

I agree with you when saying some Bluegrass styles are very close, but this is not true for all of them.
The change at 90 eg, when the Resonator (BLUGR G8) is coming, is very obvious.
The same remark applies to the Banjo Solo ((BG BDBS8).

I prefer to keep the tempo at 210, some Bluegrass songs are very fast.

Best regards

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Papity, sorry for any confusion I may have caused. I thought that those styles you had listed were the ones with the RT(na) but I was wrong.

I spent the last couple of hours messing with your song and I have come up with the conclusion that it is a complete mess as far as the style changes are concerned.

The same banjo solo plays throughout most of the song. I may be wrong on that as I am not a bluegrass expert but they did sound the same to me.

I did not hear the BLUGRSM8 Classic Bluegrass 8ths-260 w/Mandolin at all.

The BLUGRG8 Bluegrass Reso Solo 8ths was set at measure 46 but comes in on measure 91 ends at measure 127 with no style change at that measure!

A bad file save caused that when I had a problem similar to this. That is something must have happened during the save process. The only way out of my problem was to start over. That is delete that file and input the chords and styles again. Now when I do a lot of work in BiaB I save the file under a different file name like song1, song2 etc. That gives me a safe guard if something like this ever happens again. Note that problem only happened once for me.

Hopefully someone else can verify my findings.

I hope this helps and good luck.


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Papity, you've been helpful answering all these questions so we have the full info. I know it takes patience to work thorough a problem.

While I have zero understanding of bluegrass, I actually do understand one aspect of what you are doing, since Brazilian sambas (that I do understand quite well) and bluegrass are often written at similar tempos and appear in cut time so there aren't a million sixteenth notes. User Bobflatpicker may be able to help here, as his expertise includes bluegrass. Together we were able to promote implementing this cut-time feature of BIAB a few years ago, when few others understood. I'm sending Bob a PM.

Since Mario, Dan and I have all the RealTracks, we could not know for certain what you have, and we cannot replicate your situation. You said " I own Band in a Box Pro + Midi Soloist Set 5 (Bluegrass Soloing ReatTracks)." What I don't know is if the Soloist Set 5 has everything you need, along with the limits of what is included in the Pro version. Those entries of "n/a" would indicate this should be examined more closely.


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Originally Posted by MusicStudent
Best I can tell from your upload is all is working. You are changing the styles a Bars 8, 46, and 64 using F5 which is correct. I have all these styles and the associated RTs ( No N/As here)

But the styples are so similar that I can barely differentiate them when they change - especially since they are operating at such stretched tempos. There is a visually indication that they change, and I do see this change occur, but this is very obscure (we have long asked for the mixer to change when the styple changes, it currently does not).

Here is the style at Bar 1 and Bar 8.

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in][img]

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

What you may want to do instead of changing the whole style, simply change the single RT. Also, set tempo to 130! Is that so bad? It may help you hear the change. Good Luck.

Please bear in mind that a change of style "programmed" at Bar 8 will only take place at twice the bar #, at Bar 16 in this case.

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Mario: "The BLUGRG8 Bluegrass Reso Solo 8ths was set at measure 46 but comes in on measure 91 ends at measure 127 with no style change at that measure!"

Mario, Reso Solo was programmed to happen at bar 46 but comes at bar 91 (2 x 46 = 92). In the same way it ends at bar 127 because a change was programmed at bar 64 (2 x 64 = 128) and so on...
You may also look at bar 8 and 16, 46 and 92.
I don't know the reason therefore. Because the styles are Half Time ?

I made different versions of this backing track and I don't remember which one we are here referring to. So maybe the styles changes are not the ones here above mentionned.

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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Papity, you've been helpful answering all these questions so we have the full info. I know it takes patience to work thorough a problem.

While I have zero understanding of bluegrass, I actually do understand one aspect of what you are doing, since Brazilian sambas (that I do understand quite well) and bluegrass are often written at similar tempos and appear in cut time so there aren't a million sixteenth notes. User Bobflatpicker may be able to help here, as his expertise includes bluegrass. Together we were able to promote implementing this cut-time feature of BIAB a few years ago, when few others understood. I'm sending Bob a PM.

Since Mario, Dan and I have all the RealTracks, we could not know for certain what you have, and we cannot replicate your situation. You said " I own Band in a Box Pro + Midi Soloist Set 5 (Bluegrass Soloing ReatTracks)." What I don't know is if the Soloist Set 5 has everything you need, along with the limits of what is included in the Pro version. Those entries of "n/a" would indicate this should be examined more closely.

Hi Matt, thanks for contacting Bob. Maybe he could explain why I have to handle the style changes in this manner, with a factor 2 correction.

The "n/a" issue seems to have disapear. Now all the styles I used are normal ones.
Is that because I rebuild the list ?

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Originally Posted by Papity
................................................................

The "n/a" issue seems to have disapear. Now all the styles I used are normal ones.
Is that because I rebuild the list ?

YES


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I did reach out to Bob but he's no longer active here.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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No problem.
Everything is working well.
Thanks for trying.

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Great!

Do you have any tips to share for others who will read this thread? Consider making a post describing your problem and solution for the Tips and Tricks Forum.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

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"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

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