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I set up a new midi instrument (Guitar2) and typed in all the melody notes (on all 32 measures). Then I added 32 new measures at the beginning with just chords, no melody. And I set it to play all 64 measures twice. What I want is to have just the chords play for 32 measures, and then play the chords with the melody for measures 33-64. So it works exactly like this the first time through, and then when it repeats, it reverses and plays the melody over measures 1-32, and not over 33-64. This makes no sense at all since I (painstakingly) typed in the melody over measures 33-64. Why is it reversing it, and I guess HOW is it reversing it? I mean, the first 32 measures have no melody notes, how is it taking them from other measures and putting them there? It seems that my only solution here is to have 128 non-repeating measures and have to type in all the melody notes on 32 more measures. Is there any other way to accomplish what I'm trying to do without having to do that?

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Originally Posted by Milky
I set up a new midi instrument (Guitar2) and typed in all the melody notes (on all 32 measures). Then I added 32 new measures at the beginning with just chords, no melody. And I set it to play all 64 measures twice. What I want is to have just the chords play for 32 measures, and then play the chords with the melody for measures 33-64. So it works exactly like this the first time through, and then when it repeats, it reverses and plays the melody over measures 1-32, and not over 33-64. This makes no sense at all since I (painstakingly) typed in the melody over measures 33-64. Why is it reversing it, and I guess HOW is it reversing it? I mean, the first 32 measures have no melody notes, how is it taking them from other measures and putting them there? It seems that my only solution here is to have 128 non-repeating measures and have to type in all the melody notes on 32 more measures. Is there any other way to accomplish what I'm trying to do without having to do that?
You mentioned that you "typed in all the melody notes (on all 32 measures)", so presumably the song at this stage is 32 measures long, and you later added 32 measures at the start of the song. Is that correct?
What method did you use to add 32 new measures at the beginning with just chords?
Later you mentioned that "This makes no sense at all since I (painstakingly) typed in the melody over measures 33-64"
Are those measures the original 32 measures that got moved?

It may be related to the start of the chorus setting values.

Check if your Bar for the beginning of the song is set to 1 and the Bar at the end of the song is 64, and that there are 2 repeats. It should look like this:

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Update: from what you have described, if your settings are like this it would most likely give you the results that you have mentioned:

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Yes it says 1 x 64 x 2. There is a left repeat at 1a and a right repeat with "x2" at 64.

To insert the blank bars I clicked on bar 1 and right clicked and selected Insert Bars (32). This inserted blank bars, then I typed in the chords on them.

When I put it in notation mode and run through it, the notation for 1-32 is correctly blank, and then the notes are there for 33-64, then when it repeats, it has the notes on bars 1-32.

[img]https://imgur.com/a/5JcLQGL[/img]

https://imgur.com/a/JqJD9dt

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It is 1 - 64 x 2

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And when you play the song can you confirm that in the first chorus, only chords play for 1 to 32 bars (measures) and then chords and melody plays from bars 33 to 64, then when it repeats (what BiaB calls the 2nd chorus) the melody now plays from chorus 2, measure 1 ?

Check in the same folder that the song has been saved in, that there is not a corresponding audio file (e.g. xyz.wav) with the exact same name as the song (e.g. xyz.mgu). If so, delete / rename the audio file, restart BiaB, open the song again and see if the results differ.


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Originally Posted by Milky
It is 1 - 64 x 2

Look close at that picture. Is G+12 really what you want? And, can you just upload the song file so others can test it?


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AudioTrack: Yes the chords and melody play on bars 33-64, and chords and melody play on 1-32 the second time through. And there is not a corresponding .wav file or anything.

MusicStudent: yes I think G+12 is what guitar gets set to since Guitar notation is an octave higher. When you pick Guitar it defaults to that, and it sounds right. As far as uploading the file, I don't know how to do that. When I tried to attach it, it told me I can only upload image files.

Anyway, I figured out how to easily fix my issue. I made it have only 1 chorus instead of 2. Then I clicked on bar 64 and inserted 64 bars. Then I used the "copy from...to" option to copy bars1-64 and paste at bar 65. So now I have a single chorus with 128 bars that has the melody on bars 33-64 and on the last 64 bars. It would probably be more aesthetic to be able to use repeats but this works.

Last edited by Milky; 10/25/23 07:10 AM.
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I'm pleased that you found a workaround, but I'm still stumped as to why the melody doesn't play for the first chorus and does play for the 2nd chorus unless you have a setting in 'Bar Settings' to stop it playing on bars 1-32. (I don't recall that you mentioned adjusting Bar Settings anywhere).

This setting below would give you that exact result. Could something like this have happened?:

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I haven't changed bar settings.

Anyway, it does play on the second chorus, just not on the correct bars. It should play on bars 33-64 but instead plays on 1-32. Is there some setting to reverse which bars to use on the second chorus?

Also, is there a way to post my file here? The other responder said to but it only lets me upload images.

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Originally Posted by Milky
I haven't changed bar settings.

Also, is there a way to post my file here? The other responder said to but it only lets me upload images.

Glad you found a fix, although it still sounds like something is wrong.
You need to utilize a file sharing application (Google Drive, Dropbox... etc.) to post a link to an external file for download. Often the fix is much faster by looking at the actual file then by trying to describe it back and forth.


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Originally Posted by MusicStudent
You need to utilize a file sharing application (Google Drive, Dropbox... etc.) to post a link to an external file for download. Often the fix is much faster by looking at the actual file then by trying to describe it back and forth.

Ok I see what you mean. Does this work?

Google Drive

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Originally Posted by Milky
Originally Posted by MusicStudent
You need to utilize a file sharing application (Google Drive, Dropbox... etc.) to post a link to an external file for download. Often the fix is much faster by looking at the actual file then by trying to describe it back and forth.

Ok I see what you mean. Does this work?

Google Drive

Ya - I got it. I see two issues.

First issue I saw and heard was the tempo is way too fast for the streaching algorithim. That is why the entire band of RTs (tempo ~130) sound like crap when played at tempo - 205. Or is that the way you bluegrass guys like it? grin

Second was the Melody Track (which you call Guitar 2) was apparently set up incorrectly in the Melodist. Look in the Melodist menu. You have the melodist tempo at 95 with the song tempo at 205. When I put that tempo to match the song, the melody started playing at Bar 1 instead of bar 33.

Does that help?

Last edited by MusicStudent; 10/26/23 01:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by MusicStudent
First issue I saw and heard was the tempo is way too fast for the streaching algorithim. That is why the entire band of RTs (tempo ~130) sound like crap when played at tempo - 205. Or is that the way you bluegrass guys like it? grin

Second was the Melody Track (which you call Guitar 2) was apparently set up incorrectly in the Melodist. Look in the Melodist menu. You have the melodist tempo at 85 with the song tempo at 205. When I put that tempo to match the song, the melody started playing at Bar 1 instead of bar 33.

Does that help?

I'm not too concerned about how it sounds. I just need a backing track to practice to. And 130 is way too slow.

I don't want the melody to play at bar 1. I want it to play where I typed it in - bars 33-64. I play the melody for the first 32 bars, then I play the rhythm along with the melody on the next 32. And this works just fine. The problem is, when it repeats, the second time through it reverses it and puts the melody on bars 1-32 instead of 33-64.

Anyway, I can't find where you say the melodist tempo is 85. If I click on Guitar2 and then Track Settings, there is no tempo setting there. Where do you see this? Also where do you see 130 for the RT? If that's true, they don't understand bluegrass. These songs are played like 180 to 220. I don't understand why they would make a real track at 130 and label it "Fast Bluegrass".

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Really this is needlessly complicated. If I type in a melody note for note then tell it to repeat the whole thing twice, why would it move parts of it around? Is there a setting to just play exactly what I typed?

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[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]OK, it can be frustrating - what you call needlessly complicated , others may call feature rich.

Here is a pic of the Melodist which shows what I have referenced as a disconnect with tempos. Since you selected to "write your melody" on the melody track, I believe this info maybe impacting what you are seeing and hearing. So did you actually hand anotate your melody via the piano roll/ anotation tool? Or did you have the melodist compose this track for you?

The audio files were recorded at the stated tempo. There is only so far you can deviate (+/- 15 bpm?) before you lose quality audio.

Regarding bluegrass tempos, are you just interested in how it sounds (which you say you are, dispite the poor sound quality) or are you trying to get the annotation to be correct on the sheet music? Either way, I will have to defer to others how have specific experience with this genre in BIAB.

Maybe someone else will step in and clear things up now that I have muddied the waters. grin


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The issue is occurring because you actually have melody notes on the first 32 bars of the second chorus.

There are no melody notes on bars 1 to 32 of the first chorus. The melody notes start on bar 33 of the first chorus. OK so far.

Then there are melody notes on bars 1 to 32 of the second chorus, and no melody notes on bars 33 to 64 of the second chorus, and that is why you hear the melody notes as soon as the second chorus starts.

Have a look at the screen captures below:

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Last edited by AudioTrack; 10/26/23 01:07 PM. Reason: Added 3rd screen capture

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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
The issue is occurring because you actually have melody notes on the first 32 bars of the second chorus.

There are no melody notes on bars 1 to 32 of the first chorus. The melody notes start on bar 33 of the first chorus. OK so far.

Then there are melody notes on bars 1 to 32 of the second chorus, and no melody notes on bars 33 to 64 of the second chorus, and that is why you hear the melody notes as soon as the second chorus starts.

Ok I don't understand how this happened, since I only typed in the melody notes one time, and then added 32 blank bars ahead of it. Typically, whatever I have there, if I add a repeat, I expect it to just play the whole thing, exactly as I input it, twice. Instead it reversed everything. How is that even possible? Does repeat not mean what I expect it to mean (like what it means in sheet music notation)?

Also, can you tell me what you clicked to see the notation in that piano roll view? I have been doing it like sheet music.

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Firstly, here's how to fix it. There are 4 steps required:

1: Select Edit > Copy Special > Copy From.. To..
[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

2: Enter the following values (note that you must select Chorus 2):
[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

3: Select Edit > Erase From... To...
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4: Enter the following setting to Erase bars 1 to 32 of the second Chorus (these have just been copied to the correct place in step 2)
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The result:

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Originally Posted by MusicStudent
So did you actually hand anotate your melody via the piano roll/ anotation tool? Or did you have the melodist compose this track for you?

I put it in notation view and put in the notes on the sheet music. I first tried importing musicxml but that didn't really work so instead I just painstakingly typed in each note. Which is hard because the input tool is not very easy. Like, you have to put the note then do a "force accidental" if the note isn't natural. And then getting the right note you have to click the mouse just right, which usually takes 2 or 3 tries.

Originally Posted by MusicStudent
The audio files were recorded at the stated tempo. There is only so far you can deviate (+/- 15 bpm?) before you lose quality audio.

I guess BIAB was made for jazz and not bluegrass. Again, why they would record at 130 and call it "fast bluegrass" is baffling. But, I just need a backing track to practice with, I'm not trying to record an album or anything.

Originally Posted by MusicStudent
Regarding bluegrass tempos, are you just interested in how it sounds (which you say you are, despite the poor sound quality) or are you trying to get the annotation to be correct on the sheet music? Either way, I will have to defer to others how have specific experience with this genre in BIAB.

I just want it to alternate playing the rhythm and melody, so I can play along playing the melody and rhythm. It's a simple backing track for practice purposes.

Can you tell me how you got that Tracks toolbar to display? I am clicking everywhere but can't find any way to show other toolbars. My screen looks like this:

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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
The result:

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Ok thanks. I guess I'm still learning all the screens. It's still weird that when you put in a repeat, it doesn't just repeat it exactly, but flips things around.

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Originally Posted by Milky
Also, can you tell me what you clicked to see the notation in that piano roll view? I have been doing it like sheet music.

This is done by selecting the Piano Roll from the Views tab:

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Hope this helps.


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Can you tell me how you got that Tracks toolbar to display? I am clicking everywhere but can't find any way to show other toolbars. My screen looks like this:
I can see the Tracks Toolbar tab in the top RH part of your screen capture. Is that the one you are referring to?

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Last edited by AudioTrack; 10/26/23 01:43 PM. Reason: added image

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Originally Posted by Milky
Anyway, I can't find where you say the melodist tempo is 85. If I click on Guitar2 and then Track Settings, there is no tempo setting there. Where do you see this? Also where do you see 130 for the RT? If that's true, they don't understand bluegrass. These songs are played like 180 to 220. I don't understand why they would make a real track at 130 and label it "Fast Bluegrass".

Maybe I'm wrong about typical bpms of these songs. I googled it and it seems they are usually recorded around 130-140. But I think it sounds a lot faster because they have a lot of 16th notes instead of 8th in the picking. I don't know, I'm still learning. I've been playing Blackberry Blossom reliably at 150 and it doesn't sound that fast. So I don't know. But I know in jams songs will get a lot faster than the recorded versions but I think that's just people feeling it and full of whiskey.

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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Quote
Can you tell me how you got that Tracks toolbar to display? I am clicking everywhere but can't find any way to show other toolbars. My screen looks like this:
I can see the Tracks Toolbar tab in the top RH part of your screen capture. Is that the one you are referring to?

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

Oh yep that's it. The other guy's looked different, like this:

Also - how are you pasting images in your post? I have to use "Attachment Manager" and it puts it at the bottom. It looks like you are able to just paste it in line with your text?

Last edited by Milky; 10/26/23 02:24 PM.
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Originally Posted by Milky
Also - how are you pasting images in your post? I have to use "Attachment Manager" and it puts it at the bottom. It looks like you are able to just paste it in line with your text?

See pic
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Originally Posted by Milky
[quote=AudioTrack][quote]

Oh yep that's it. The other guy's looked different, like this:

There are Two (2) different views you can use - New or OLD. I'm old. Use these buttons to toggle.[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]


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Originally Posted by MusicStudent
There are Two (2) different views you can use - New or OLD. I'm old. Use these buttons to toggle.[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

Awesome. Thanks.

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There are Two (2) different views you can use - New or OLD. I'm old.
Yes Dan, we know that already grin

Also, you can press <Crtl>T to toggle between the two views.

(BTW: I'm 'New' smile )

Last edited by AudioTrack; 10/27/23 12:49 AM.

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Originally Posted by Milky
Maybe I'm wrong about typical bpms of these songs. I googled it and it seems they are usually recorded around 130-140. But I think it sounds a lot faster because they have a lot of 16th notes instead of 8th in the picking. I don't know, I'm still learning. I've been playing Blackberry Blossom reliably at 150 and it doesn't sound that fast. So I don't know. But I know in jams songs will get a lot faster than the recorded versions but I think that's just people feeling it and full of whiskey.

I think this is why Cut Common time was added to BiaB a couple of years ago. I'm not specifically familiar with Blue-Grass performances. Others might know more.


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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by Milky
Maybe I'm wrong about typical bpms of these songs. I googled it and it seems they are usually recorded around 130-140. But I think it sounds a lot faster because they have a lot of 16th notes instead of 8th in the picking. I don't know, I'm still learning. I've been playing Blackberry Blossom reliably at 150 and it doesn't sound that fast. So I don't know. But I know in jams songs will get a lot faster than the recorded versions but I think that's just people feeling it and full of whiskey.

I think this is why Cut Common time was added to BiaB a couple of years ago. I'm not specifically familiar with Blue-Grass performances. Others might know more.
send a PM to bobflatpicker and ask him to comment here. Bob understands this topic.


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Yes, excellent suggestion. He would be the definitive expert on this subject.


BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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PG Music News
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!

Add updated printing options, enhanced tracks settings, smoother use of MGU and SGU (BB files) within PowerTracks, and more with the latest PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 update!

Learn more about this free update for PowerTracks Pro Audio & download it at www.pgmusic.com/support_windows_pt.htm#2024_5

The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!

The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!

Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.

This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245

The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option

Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!

Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!

For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.

Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.

Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!

Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.

Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!

Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!

With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!

Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

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