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"But you would really have to be blind not to imagine that we are necessarily going to simplify the whole thing."
Consider me blind. I see all previous pickers as absolutely unneeded complexity that will confuse most users, especially new ones and is a feature creep clutter. And not a hint from developers that these will be retired.
P.S. MoultiPass, I am not sure if you had been reading any external posts (outside PG music forum) by people that had tried BIAB. I've put in a lot of hours just reading these posts over last 5 years, of folks with very different needs/uses of the program. One of the top issues people voice is clutter and complexity.
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The reason we took the trouble to learn Biab is because there is a little something magical about this program that no other has. The criticisms about the outdated graphics and the famous learning curve are true, but don't stop me from using it every day.
So what? Destroy everything and redo a version from scratch? Are we really trying to attract more people (make more money) by satisfying fans of modern design? As the Beatles said, it's just a group of friends having a good time. I remain in this artisanal spirit, but I know that one day everything will change, perhaps for the better.
We understand of course all these people who suffer to get the nectar out of Biab, and the criticisms are at the level. I don't read them anymore, they all say the same thing, an old program for old people who are afraid of change. I don't pay attention to it anymore. The major advances of recent years suggest new possibilities.
Biab Audiophile 2024 11.11, Win11
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MoultiPass,
Sure, trade your car/bus for a horse, throw away your cell phone and get a rotary dial one or just carry one with you in case you "might need it". Computers, who needs them? Calculator will do just fine! Should I go on?
Destroy everything? This is not what I am saying. I am saying it is a good time and opportunity to get rid of redundant features that have no functional value. "Modern design" has nothing to do with my request. That is another topic. I don't think it is good for a software to have a paperweight features that do nothing more but add clutter and invite more bugs and other issues. I don't see anything good or positive in that philosophy.
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MoultiPass,
Sure, trade your car/bus for a horse, throw away your cell phone and get a rotary dial one or just carry one with you in case you "might need it". Computers, who needs them? Calculator will do just fine! Should I go on?
... Which report ? I leave you this thread, I said what I had to say. THANKS.
Biab Audiophile 2024 11.11, Win11
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There are still some things that need sorting: When I first start the MultiPicker it takes 30 secs to open. I can't see a rebuild button in the RealTracks it seems to use the Style rebuild that takes ages even if set on "Quick". How many times do you put this off until you are force to run it: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26704&filename=BB24-Style-Rebuild.png) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26705&filename=VST6-Style-Rebuild.png) Then after waiting 30sec you choose the Drum tab and you have to wait again: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26706&filename=BB24-Multi-Drum-Picker-Lag.png)
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I vote to remove the old picker since new one has designed to work better.
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1109, MegaPaK
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Rustyspoon#
You have had your say, now leave it alone and let the people who know the situation, (Dr Gannon and the programmers) work out the best approach and timing, do their thing, please.
Keith
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I think it's a Ctrl+T scenario, once users get used to the new way they don't use the old anymore, but each one to his own time, they can't be pushed if not ready. I remember suggesting a multipicker years n years n years ago then Rusty also suggested this, this is a good step. I keep an old exe of different versions for support. Look at the new Tracks view, so many didn't want it to become a "DAW" but with all those Util tracks and the Track window that horse has bolted, it's a great improvement appreciated by so many users. The thing is you can still just use Audio Edit and the Piano Roll and hide the extra UTil tracks and Tracks window. Things have to move ahead, look at the BiabVST now in Reaper, instantaneous !! I had to show that working for ages with so much code, pics and videos with like near zero interest or support from most maybe due to not understanding ??? and saying that most users have old computers with old hardware so Biab has to be limited and can not progress because of this, but you can see plainly now it working in action in the BiabVST (there is still more to do like playing the track data direct in the BiabVST (so other DAWs can enjoy the speed) and have all the code in the VST that I will most likely have to now do also to show that working  as there still seems to be some resistance to that. ), you can see Riff Edit now in the Tracks window giving way more control the same as I showed in Reaper with the RT/RD sections. So much of this stuff that is now implemented I showed years n years n years ago, so it is still way behind of where it could of been by now 
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Dear Keith,
That is nice that you are trying to be a "moderator", but kindly don't try to silence me. If you are against my wish / request, say exactly why. So if this is considered by Peter and his crew (one way or another) they will at least know the true reasons why some people want to keep redundant features.
and make necessary adjustments if they feel it is important enough to justify. That is the point of this thread, to have a discussion.
So far I have read 2 valid reasons:
One by Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
And what, if I am thinking this right, Musocity and also Mario is trying to say, is for people to get used to it.
You are welcome to present your view, or if I missed something besides the two above from this thread that are worth considering.
--------------------------------------------
Musocity, new MTP library takes less than 3 seconds to open for me. Switching tabs less then 2. Something is not right in your setup....
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I like it as they are not hassling me LOL I remember some not wanting you in Beta because "you would want to change things" after I suggested you should be added to beta testing because of your knowledge. This is first run: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26712&filename=BB24-Start-Multipicker-First-Run.gif) This is once running: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26713&filename=BB24-Start-Multipicker-Once-Running.gif)
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Something is not right with your setup...
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 12/26/23 10:06 PM.
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Dear Keith,
That is nice that you are trying to be a "moderator", but kindly don't try to silence me. If you are against my wish / request, say exactly why. So if this is considered by Peter and his crew (one way or another) they will at least know the true reasons why some people want to keep redundant features.
and make necessary adjustments if they feel it is important enough to justify. That is the point of this thread, to have a discussion.
So far I have read 2 valid reasons:
One by Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
And what, if I am thinking this right, Musocity and also Mario is trying to say, is for people to get used to it.
You are welcome to present your view, or if I missed something besides the two above from this thread that are worth considering.
--------------------------------------------
Musocity, new MTP library takes less than 3 seconds to open for me. Switching tabs less then 2. Something is not right in your setup.... My vote was/is leave it alone until the bugs are worked out then remove the unneeded dialogs. Leave them for now because removing them prematurely may make it difficult/impossible to do certain things. But ultimately, Misha is absolutely right; when you improve things you should not leave the old things in place!
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Misha, I originally was against removing the old pickers. After using the multipicker for a couple of weeks I am changing my opinion. I agree that the old pickers should be removed.
See you can teach an old dog new tricks!
I want my last spoken words to be "I hid a million dollars under the........................"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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To summarize, so far 3 specific reasons were mentioned against removing older pickers for now:
1) Moultipass - that has to do with convenience of few buttons being upfront.
2)What, if I am thinking this right, Musocity meant, is for people to get used to it.
3) And by JJJ (which I also agree on)-leave it alone until the bugs are worked out then remove the unneeded dialogs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Best case scenario, if considered by PGM, this could be done in a few months until they iron out reported bugs with MTP Library. My realistic hope that it will be done in 2025 version, by the end of 2024.
I encourage anyone who will post / or cast a vote in this thread "against", please provide specific reasons why, even if they are repeats of the three mentioned above.
Thank you.
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Something is not right with your setup... What time does yours take when you first start Biab compared to already running ? (see my pics above) Have you got the RealTrack/Drums on C:\ or external USB 3 hard drive ? What version are you using (amount of RT/RDs) ? I have the USB 3 Audiophile and on first run it's taking all that time reading the Audiophile drive as it's light is flashing. It should not have to read the folders if it has already been rebuilt and has a text database.
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This is from USB spinner drive that Audiophile came with. Maybe start a thread/poll in BIAB Windows, see what others are experiencing? Mine is fast...
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Mine is also very fast 1-2 seconds.
Same test as above.
BIAB is on an internal SSD drive same as C: but separate partition.
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There is a time difference between initial open and next open due to it being loaded in memory.
There's also a huge difference if you're loading from a slower supplied hard disk or from a much faster M2 disk.
I have not benchmarked this against older pickers in the same scenario first time or on a slow disk.
By 100% agree with the OP that old methods to do the same thing should be removed. That's the definition of Bloat.
I also realized that there's a few minor tweaks to the multi picker to make it a little smoother in terms of Workflow and I'm beginning to adopt a new thought about this.
So based off of where the library is sitting and A couple of workflow scenarios there is arguments to keep both methods.
I use a method that matches with my workflow and thus totally avoid all redundancy. The custom toolbar.
In order to Sideline this debate for another day I'm beginning to believe that a very simple and quick solution that PGM could do would be to supply startup templates that match the user's needs.
NEXT PATCH RELEASE
1) Fill out the custom With the F7 multi picker which by the way is a toggle and the Track View, which is also a toggle with the Chord view, this gives an entry level person 90% of what they need.
Before they disappear and go into hibernation for the Mac version:
2) When speed and a few minor improvements to the F7 are ready then either remove or make it extremely hard to find the other pickers.
Last edited by jpettit; 12/30/23 01:20 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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MULTI PICKER LIBRARY IIMPROVEMENTS:
EASY:
1) A set of options for the multi picker
- Auto fill time signature, feel, tempo range so every time you open it up it matches your current style. (New to 2024 is the actual style options in the filters)
- Just like the DAW mode button which greatly changes the behavior and required a RED FLAG, to let you know that you are in DAW (stay on top) mode, The option to use the existing chord chart which is currently buried under the options is way too dangerous if you inadvertently are on the wrong track or don't realize that you're wiping out entire styles or entire tracks with it on. There should be a RED FLAG somewhere on the multi picker that lets you in this mode versus demo from the Internet mode perhaps just a small red button that toggles. It needs to be extremely convenient and obvious.
MORE WORK:
The multi-picker should have a background thread that loads it into memory, so the initial opening is instantaneous.
Last edited by jpettit; 12/30/23 01:34 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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The Style Picker Rebuild to Rebuild RealTracks takes 100 secs on Fast. So I added a Rebuild button in the RT picker and now it's fast again ! ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26787&filename=BB24-MultiPicker-RT-Rebuild.gif)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
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Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
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Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
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Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
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A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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