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Originally Posted by Andrew - PG Music
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However in comparing your bad with your good, I see that what you don't like is that the clean guitar sometimes strums a chord at the beginning of a phrase. Now that we have defined it, we have something that is actionable. I see that there isn't a simple version available for RT1831, perhaps we could make one that excludes the strummed patterns.

I think this is a matter of artistic style and preference. The "bad" version is exactly how I tend to play guitar, with strums mixed in here and there ahead of arpeggios. If I was working on this track to suit my taste, I would probably re-gen some of the bars to add some more of those strums and I like the fact that the realtrack offers both styles. However, I would certainly have no objection to having a "simple" version without the strums as an alternative realtrack.

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Folks don’t forget that Real Track are only one option to use. You can add in MIDI patterns from BiaB or things like EZ products.


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Originally Posted by Lee N
You've now got a whole bunch of guitar parts regenerated that you can just quickly listen to, find what you want and use copy paste to put them where you want in the actual song.

Lee N provides the most efficient method so far.

One question though.

Say, for a song, Verse #1 generates 8 bars, and I really like it. Verse #2 and #3 have exactly the same chords, and I want to copy verse #1's waveform to the position of #2 and #3.

In Audio Edit Window (AEW), I can select the 8 bars in Verse 1, copy it, then select another 8 bars at Verse #2's position, and paste. It's doable but quite cumbersome.

Is there a way, I can possibly create a group/block of these 8 bars in Verse #1, once created, I can easily select and copy this block to anywhere of the song quickly and accurately?


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Charlie Fogle's method was quite smart and I have never heard anyone else talked about this in the forum.

Use Medley Maker to load several RealTracks then use Part Marker to determine which RealTrack to play at a certain bar.

A few questions though.

1. Can you load the same RealTrack to different channels in Medley Maker? So that same RealTrack was generated in several differently versions for you to choose.

2. Does this method allows maximum of 3 RealTracks to be switched? Because you only have 3 Part Markers at your disposal: Substyle A, C, and D. Each Part Marker to trigger a different channel in Medley Maker?

3. How can you deal with "Regular Part Markers"? In your image, you trigger the second channel (RT1829) with the orange substyle C at bar 7, and want it to continue playing through for several bars. However, at bar 9, there is a "Regular Part Marker A" for the purpose of adding drum fills, is this Part Marker going to be problematic? Is it going to trigger the first channel (RT1831) which is not intended? How can you prevent it from triggering a channel?


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If you or anyone else needs that RT 1831 as a functioning constant track pattern, now without waiting for PG to get around to it,
just enter all the one bar chords you will be using repeating them to give Biab more choice, in Biab generate up the track and regen any sections that are wrong. In Song Setting > Avoid Transpositions.
Now save it as a UsersTrack by rendering track and loading it into the Audio track, you can also make a DI version if need be.
Because you now have partial regen and can change any instrument at any bar you can also create a Holds UserTrack for it.

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Originally Posted by MusicVillain
Charlie Fogle's method was quite smart and I have never heard anyone else talked about this in the forum.

Use Medley Maker to load several RealTracks then use Part Marker to determine which RealTrack to play at a certain bar.

A few questions though.

1. Can you load the same RealTrack to different channels in Medley Maker? So that same RealTrack was generated in several differently versions for you to choose.

2. Does this method allows maximum of 3 RealTracks to be switched? Because you only have 3 Part Markers at your disposal: Substyle A, C, and D. Each Part Marker to trigger a different channel in Medley Maker?

3. How can you deal with "Regular Part Markers"? In your image, you trigger the second channel (RT1829) with the orange substyle C at bar 7, and want it to continue playing through for several bars. However, at bar 9, there is a "Regular Part Marker A" for the purpose of adding drum fills, is this Part Marker going to be problematic? Is it going to trigger the first channel (RT1831) which is not intended? How can you prevent it from triggering a channel?

1. No. PG Music added a feature called "Thickening" several years ago so using the same RT# doubles and thickens the instruments in the Medley. Note there's a button to load a single RealTrack instrument four times by checking that button.

Saying that, going back the method of searching by Artist, it's usually a regular situation to find that artist playing that same instrument in a similar manner that two different RealTracks played by the same artist playing the same instrument can be used. This was the case with Dave Cleveland playing RT1831 and RT1829 and the two instruments were indistinguishable from each other. Another method using this feature is to use two instruments that are similar and often used together, pan them hard left and hard right, generate simultaneously, and apply PG DXI affects to both instruments or even VST's to both. This widens the stereo field, saved a track for use for some other instrument and treats multiple instrument Fx's like the track is a bus track. Complimentary guitars like an acoustic rhythm and acoustic fingerpick bounced together and effects added to both is an example.

2. No. A SGU file can have up to 24 different Part Markers, each with an -a- and -b- substyle. These Part Markers can be used more than once the same as the normal Blue and Green Part Markers. They can also be used for display only but using these Part Markers would trigger the RealTrack Medley Maker when the Part Markers option is used to trigger changes in instruments. In the example I posted earlier, I used a "display only" define Part Markers C/D and used the C Part Marker to trigger the regular Part Marker a substyle. Had I chosen the d display only Part Marker, the green substyle would have been triggered.

3. Part Marker are either a different color and they also are labeled. In the example I did earlier, the normal -a- substyle (blue Part Marker) you used to mark verses. I used the define part marker feature for changing instruments in the RealTrack Medley Maker and to be separate from the verses you had marked. Using Part Markers can also be used to designate Style Changes. These are quite powerful and complex tools to get better audio selections in a single generation rather than post generation editing or exporting tracks to a DAW.

Note that using Part Markers to determine which RealTrack to play at specific measures is only one method to do this. The Medley Maker has a total of ten different choices and changing RealTracks can also be done manually from the Bar Settings Window.


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Originally Posted by MusicVillain
Originally Posted by Lee N
You've now got a whole bunch of guitar parts regenerated that you can just quickly listen to, find what you want and use copy paste to put them where you want in the actual song.

Lee N provides the most efficient method so far.

One question though.

Say, for a song, Verse #1 generates 8 bars, and I really like it. Verse #2 and #3 have exactly the same chords, and I want to copy verse #1's waveform to the position of #2 and #3.

In Audio Edit Window (AEW), I can select the 8 bars in Verse 1, copy it, then select another 8 bars at Verse #2's position, and paste. It's doable but quite cumbersome.

Is there a way, I can possibly create a group/block of these 8 bars in Verse #1, once created, I can easily select and copy this block to anywhere of the song quickly and accurately?

Most of this I do directly on the chordsheet, I find it quicker and easier. The only problem is when a chord might change before the beat, in those case you need to touch up in audio edit.

When you copy, say 8 bars, it's held in the buffer so you can paste as many times as you want, where you want. (At least I think you can from memory).

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I've been messing around with Charlie's idea. This is even better. I still don't quite understand it all yet (never did understand define C/D) .. however, I can't believe I've never even thought of something as simple as putting the same realtrack on multiple tracks. This is far better because you don't have to mess around with extending the song length.

This combined with alt/F8, copy paste will be my new way of working. Also, now with track view, although it's clunky, it does have one advantage which is being able to extend or reduce the length of the regenerated part. Previously I would either silence or copy paste the overhangs to tidy things up, but now we can just drag the messy bits around.

Last edited by Lee N; 01/14/24 04:13 AM.
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Originally Posted by Lee N
I can't believe I've never even thought of something as simple as putting the same realtrack on multiple tracks.
I do this all the time but sometimes I get mixed results as BIAB will occasionally put the same riff on the same bar for both tracks which causes stereo to disappear as they combine. But now with partial Regen that is easier to fix.

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Originally Posted by JohnJohnJohn
Originally Posted by Lee N
I can't believe I've never even thought of something as simple as putting the same realtrack on multiple tracks.
I do this all the time but sometimes I get mixed results as BIAB will occasionally put the same riff on the same bar for both tracks which causes stereo to disappear as they combine. But now with partial Regen that is easier to fix.

So far I only tried soloing each channel to see how many variations come up. Seems enough to use for copy and pasting parts. I'm going to play around with Charlie's idea more, I can see this all being quite useful in some circumstances. Define c/d, medley etc, I've never even looked at before, just assumed it was all remnants from days of old and midi styles smile

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I found this thread searching for Workflow as Im pretty new to BIAB . you people seem very advanced compared to me but I really like the info and insights I am gaining from this thread so thanks. I think i will refer to these comments and ideas over time and learn from it greatly so again thanks.
My start point was saving a song then when reloading it it needed regenerate which screwed it up then found freeze tracks which then leads to editing stuff and what the best workflow work practices are to not make an utter mess. Seems like that's not that easy and time comsuming judging by comments here. I am an accomplished Musician use to DAW recording in things like Bitwig and Ableton mainly have use Ample guitar VST for my guitar strums and my Roland Fantom I can get most sounds off like convincing Sax or B3 and Electric piano and orchestral strings etc. I use Toontracks drum programs with real drummer midi.
Im getting the idea from this thread that maybe I should not worry to much as i have these tools at hand instead use BIAB to get some basics down freeze tracks and save then finish in the DAW.
I noticed the 7 regens in a sub menu accidentally and you guys mentioned partial regens mentioned. i have not tried these yet so i will spend some time figuring how best to do this seems another non logical step of faith almost thing to have to do.
So maybe get stuff into the daw ASAP . At some point I could iff necessary, maybe replace some tracks or partial tracks with my own drums from toontrack and my played in parts on keys. I could mix these in with audio from BIAB , partial regens, creating loops from BIAB especially for solos. So using BIAB to create the ideas and chords but using the daw much more than I was hoping.
Does this sound logical in my situation with what I have ?
I thought BIAB would be more consistent. It seems too clever in someways and i don't like the fact it makes you freeze and regen and partial regenerate tracks or parts of tracks its seems unnatural to the musician in me. A bit disappointed, I think the average musician is going to find it like learning a DAW when you've never touched one or even worse. So hopefully they can rethink some of these things. Problem is the legacy code in a program can get too tied up and cumbersome and it almost needs large chunks reset and re written which of course can be a major pain for developers and even users . A giant can of worms.

Last edited by shaneblyth; 02/04/24 05:47 PM.
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If you are new to Biab and used to a DAW you would be best to use Open SGU in Reaper or the Biab VST with Reaper as it will save everything you generate up.

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Originally Posted by musocity
If you are new to Biab and used to a DAW you would be best to use Open SGU in Reaper or the Biab VST with Reaper as it will save everything you generate up.
I'm used to a DAW, but I don't use Reaper. Is that likely to be a problem?


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Not at all, if you can use a DAW you can use Reaper and get all the integration advantages that you can't get will other DAWs.
Reaper is free to try n try n try so it's worth trying. Dragging and dropping is a drag, I remember doing that and getting a hard drive full of consolidated wav files.

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The Version Reaper plugin plus the little Pipeline add-ons are a Must Have !


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No worries. I use Studio One Plus and BIAB still works. Reaper add-ons are created by a BIAB user and are very popular with the folks using Reaper.

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I always only use BIAB to generate, and in the end, I complete it in STUDIO ONE.
Until I am satisfied.


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Originally Posted by swingbabymix
I always only use BIAB to generate, and in the end, I complete it in STUDIO ONE.
Until I am satisfied.
You have to render then drag a large consolidated wav files into Studio One, these files is stored on the hard drive.
When you use Reaper it will instantly load the Biab tracks without creating any wav files as it will use the source RT RD wma or wav files direct, or any other file type RT or RD. You can regen and instantly update any section in the DAW you don't like.
Any track section can be lengthened or shortened to tweak the riffs, you can't do that with a rendered consolidated wav file.
Studio One would be good if it had scripting to import file sections and use wma like Audition & Reaper, but it can't play wma direct and needs to convert to wav creating yet another wav file on the drive.

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shaneblyth, welcome to Band-in-a-Box and to the forum. I appreciate your post and find it enlightening. Hopefully, my response will reduce your frustration and help you to understand Band-in-a-Box.

First, forget about comparing Band-in-a-Box, or BiaB for short, to a DAW. The program is not a DAW, never has been. BiaB is an auto accompaniment program. So approaching the program with the expectation it's a DAW doesn't work. Okay, so how should you approach it? What should be your expectation? To create backing tracks for a song. How would you direct other musicians to play that song?

You would likely start by telling the musicians I want to play "XYZ". It's a country song so I'm going to start with a country style. Load a country style and it provides you with a country feel by providing initial instrumentation, tempo, key and time signature as a starting point. You can try other styles or instruments or just replace the instruments you have. You enter the song's chord chart and hit play to see how the instruments sound. You swap styles and instruments until you get the feel and sound you want.

Now you want to get the instruments to play how you want them to play. That's where you use features like partial regeneration, micro-chords, medley maker, soloist, pushes and holds to make each instrument unique.

In real life when you're playing with other musicians you might say something like can you play this line a little differently. You can do the same thing with BiaB but you have to learn what tools are available and how to use them.

One approach that has some merit is to start your song in a DAW to create a guide or scratch track, bring the audio track into Band-in-a-Box and then use Band-in-a-Box to create backing tracks for your audio! Sounds backwards from what you were likely thinking, doesn't it?


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