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Also book in the manual see if there's ways to configure the keyboard send more or less MIDI data. Looking on at the manual online it looks like it has two to three different on's and off's and CC numbers for different pressures of on and off. etc.

PGM, does the filter notes record filtered data or does it just not show it?


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Originally Posted by DrDan
Quote
It does appear you may have the Pianoteq VST on two channels - on the thru so that you hear it play, and then on the Melody in order to playback the recorded midi. this worked fine on my machine, but may be stressful for your system? I suggest you just put default Synth on the thru to lighten the CPU load during recording.

Are you using two VSTi?


No, I am only using Pianoteq VSTi. I have tried using the CoyoteWT and the same problem exists (recording MIDI stopping at random).

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What, if any, MIDI data is being sent if you just start the MIDI monitor and play nothing on the keyboard?


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I am not using an Arrpegiator.

When I look at the MIDI Monitor file generated when running BIAB 2014 (which is the last version I have that works properly with the Casio) there are only entries labeled "Ext" in the column for the Source. Looking at the BIAB 2024 MIDI Monitor there are entries for both "Ext" an "1" - what is the difference between source labeled "Ext" and "1" ? I wonder if the fact that source "1" does not show up in the MIDI monitor of the 2014 version has any bearing on the situation. Also, there are no "Note-Off" entries in the 2014 version MIDI monitor file so I don't think that has anything to do with it. In addition, the 2014 file does not have any of the "#88 Undefined" entries that are being generated in the 2024 MIDI monitor file. More clues perhaps?

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I believe you said you have another keyboard that has a broken key, right?
If so have you looked at the MIDI data being sent by it? Maybe play with the pitch bend and mod wheel to see if BiaB is blocking that data. If it is then the problem is with the Casio. If not then the problem is with BiaB.


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Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
What, if any, MIDI data is being sent if you just start the MIDI monitor and play nothing on the keyboard?

If I hit "Record MIDI" this is what shows on the MIDI Monitor (see attached image) with those last 3 entries being generated by the count-off on the drum track. So it looks like Source "1" is the BIAB program itself. These entries are before a single note is played on the MIDI keyboard.

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Originally Posted by MarioD
I believe you said you have another keyboard that has a broken key, right?
If so have you looked at the MIDI data being sent by it? Maybe play with the pitch bend and mod wheel to see if BiaB is blocking that data. If it is then the problem is with the Casio. If not then the problem is with BiaB.

Neither my old keyboard or the new Casio have any mod or pitch bend wheels - just keys.

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I just found this MIDI implementation chart in the Casio manual. It might have some bearing on the situation but I have no idea how to use this information. See attached.

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I have a very strong suspicion that a lot of the additional / unexpected events are generated and input into the data stream by the BiaB program itself.
(Although this doesn't necessarily get anyone closer to the cause of the lockup problem.)


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Ok a couple of IMPORTANT pieces of information I have just discovered in my testing. This all goes along with my theory that the CASIO PXS5000 keyboard does not play nice with BIAB 2024.
FIRST, the Casio transmits High Resolution Velocity MIDI data. High Resolution MIDI Velocity CC#88 was adopted by the MMA around 2010, giving controllers and instruments a velocity range of 0-16,000+, instead of the basic MIDI 0-127. (Pianoteq is one of the few software instruments that respond to it.). These are the CC # 88 picked up in the BIAB MIDI Monitor but apparently BIAB 2024 does not know how to respond to these. This is most likely causing the recording to stop abruptly with some of the MIDI data being transmitted by the Casio BIAB just doesn't know what to do with it and translates it into the wrong command and stops the recording.

SECOND: I am able to DISABLE the high resolution MIDI velocity data transmission in the Casio and when I do that, BIAB responds better, but not perfect. The MIDI Monitor no longer picks up any strange data, the only thing listed is Note on clean data (see attached screen shot). BIAB seems to do well with this UNLESS, I play too fast or strike the same note repeatedly and very fast. These two actions will cause the recording to STOP abruptly.

So I'm getting closer, but I can't play too fast because as soon as I do or repeat a single note fast in succession, it triggers the recording to stop - and that is with high velocity resolution turned off. So it seems that BIAB is having a problem with the rapid playing. Also, I wonder if BIAB programming can implement the High resolution Velocity MIDI data reception into its programming.

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Good job! Thumbs up
PGM can make some improvements to their recording code that might fix this.

Meanwhile do you have a DAW the you can export the backing tracks to and record your performance there?


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Originally Posted by jpettit
Good job! Thumbs up
PGM can make some improvements to their recording code that might fix this.

Meanwhile do you have a DAW the you can export the backing tracks to and record your performance there?

It would be really nice if PGM can fix this with an update.

Yes, I can export the backing tracks into my DAW and record that way. I just like having a quick way to record right into BIAB (when the inspiration hits) and then save the MIDI file that I can then import into my DAW for remixing later.

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L2L,

I remember reading a post a couple of years ago about a problem created by a mismatch in resolution of MIDI data.

Given that you have high resolution input, it may be that you need to match that PPQ (parts per quarter note) in BIAB. (This is what solved the problem for the user in the past.) This mismatch in PPQ resolution could also explain why you are getting multiple notes happening as a single event (i.e. high resolution PPQ data being reduced to lower resolution PPQ data).

Under "Options | Preferences", choose "Midi file" and try setting BIAB's PPQ to a much higher resolution. By default, BIAB uses 120 PPQ. It might be that you need to run this setting at 1920. Also check your keyboard and VSTi/DXI softsynth to see if these also need to be matched.

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I agree with Noel and PGM would want you to try that first.


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Originally Posted by Noel96
L2L,

I remember reading a post a couple of years ago about a problem created by a mismatch in resolution of MIDI data.

Given that you have high resolution input, it may be that you need to match that PPQ (parts per quarter note) in BIAB. (This is what solved the problem for the user in the past.) This mismatch in PPQ resolution could also explain why you are getting multiple notes happening as a single event (i.e. high resolution PPQ data being reduced to lower resolution PPQ data).

Under "Options | Preferences", choose "Midi file" and try setting BIAB's PPQ to a much higher resolution. By default, BIAB uses 120 PPQ. It might be that you need to run this setting at 1920. Also check your keyboard and VSTi/DXI softsynth to see if these also need to be matched.

Regards,
--Noel


That was a great suggestion, but unfortunately, it did not solve the problem. I don't have to even be playing a single note repeatedly; it occurs (the MIDI recording stops in the middle of the song) when I am playing anything - not even just fast notes. This stops the entire song waiting for me to click on the pop-up dialog box as to whether I want to save the recording. Then, when I close the dialog box, the song continues to play. Somehow, BIAB is getting a signal to STOP RECORDING, but I don't know what it is interpreting in my playing as that command. So weird. I'm not giving up yet, but I'm getting close. I have a 2014 version of BIAB that works fine (without changing the PPQ settings) so I'm starting to think the upgrade has done nothing but create headaches. It would be interesting to see another Casio PX-S5000 user try to duplicate the issue.

Last edited by Lot2Learn; 01/26/24 09:14 AM.
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L2L.
i asked you up thread some questions but no response.
sigh so lets have another go.

1.did you compare your bb 2014 settings in bb with your bb 2024 settings ? includeing recording dialog settings.?
also at the top of the bb chord view post back your settings for number of choruses and end bar for both 2014 and 2024.

2. i find it telling that the other midi kbd fp works fine i read upthread..correct ?

3. re stop ...thats good deducing mate.
maybe its a setting in bb THATS DIFFERENT TWEEN 2014 and 2024. Because as you said something is telling bb to stop.
im wondering if there is a linkeage tween the flipping over of choruses and the stop condition.

4. something to try. do an experiment as follows.
instead of embedding the repeats in the chord sheet...in 2024...unfold the whole song and enter chorus 1 at top of bb. ie...lay the song out in one long chord sheet.
does the stop problem go away ?
sometimes ive found for some reason unfolding works better than embedding repeats etc.

5.casio has a user forum. worst case if its not a bb bug i would contact cas support and raise the issue on the forum.

your call on whether to get back to me.

sometimes its difficult for people to help others because the helpers arent there. thus its a process of elimination often.

om

Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/26/24 03:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
L2L.
i asked you up thread some questions but no response.
sigh so lets have another go.

1.did you compare your bb 2014 settings in bb with your bb 2024 settings ? includeing recording dialog settings.?
also at the top of the bb chord view post back your settings for number of choruses and end bar for both 2014 and 2024.

ANSWER: Yes, I have compared the settings and they are the same.

2. i find it telling that the other midi kbd fp works fine i read upthread..correct ?

ANSWER: The Roland keyboard works fine with 2024, just the Casio has the problem

3. re stop ...thats good deducing mate.
maybe its a setting in bb THATS DIFFERENT TWEEN 2014 and 2024. Because as you said something is telling bb to stop.
im wondering if there is a linkeage tween the flipping over of choruses and the stop condition.

ANSWER: It is definitely a MIDI event being transmitted by the Casio and interpreted by BIAB as a STOP signal.

4. something to try. do an experiment as follows.
instead of embedding the repeats in the chord sheet...in 2024...unfold the whole song and enter chorus 1 at top of bb. ie...lay the song out in one long chord sheet.
does the stop problem go away ?
sometimes ive found for some reason unfolding works better than embedding repeats etc.

ANSWER: Makes no difference.

5.casio has a user forum. worst case if its not a bb bug i would contact cas support and raise the issue on the forum.

your call on whether to get back to me.

sometimes its difficult for people to help others because the helpers arent there. thus its a process of elimination often.

Yes, Thanks.

om

LATEST UPDATE:
I have been working with Andrew at PG Support and using different versions of BIAB here is what my testing shows:
BIAB 2016 - runs perfectly. No problems and no errors.
BIAB 2018 - runs perfectly. No problems, no errors.
BIAB 2020 64 Bit  - runs perfectly. No problems and no errors.
So all of those versions are all perfect. I tried stressing them all to the max with very fast and rapid playing and playing one note in succession rapidly 20 - 30 times and they all were perfect.
As soon as I try to run BIAB 2024 - ERROR - Access Violation.This error pops-up when I run the program. When I click to close that error dialogue box another box pops-up telling me an exception has occurred and I can continue but I should save work and reboot program. Then if I close out that box and try to record in the program, the program will run but will stop recording the second I play the same note rapidly, even just 4 or 5 times in a row.  I tried to crash all of the other versions listed above several times using this technique and they never stopped the recording. Only 2024 stops the recording when I play notes rapidly.

So that's where we are at.

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When 2024 crashes and you get the pop up window that tells you a crash has occurred a crash file is created. I believe the file is stored at C:/bb/Data/Logs. You should be able to identify the crash file by the file time stamp. Send an email to support@pgmusic.com with the file attached. Reference this thread and mention Andrew is involved.


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Originally Posted by Lot2Learn
...
As soon as I try to run BIAB 2024 - ERROR - Access Violation.This error pops-up when I run the program. When I click to close that error dialogue box another box pops-up telling me an exception has occurred and I can continue but I should save work and reboot program.
Yes, and that's why I wrote in this post that you need to get to the bottom of that A/V first.

There's a high possibility that the A/V has set the stage for a future downstream failure.

So keep us posted with feedback from the PGM support.
PS: If Andrew's looking at it, you're in good hands.


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Originally Posted by Jim Fogle
When 2024 crashes and you get the pop up window that tells you a crash has occurred a crash file is created. I believe the file is stored at C:/bb/Data/Logs. You should be able to identify the crash file by the file time stamp. Send an email to support@pgmusic.com with the file attached. Reference this thread and mention Andrew is involved.

Let me clarify the sequence of events.
As soon as I try to run 2024 - ERROR - Access Violation. The error log in BB\Data gives no more information than what is on the pop-up dialog box when BIAB is started: " Access violation at address 000000000075E7E4 in module 'bbw64.exe'. Read of address 0000000000000629 at: 000000000075E7E4
"

This error pops-up when I start BIAB. When I click to close that error dialogue box another box pops-up telling me an exception has occurred and I can continue but I should save work and reboot program. It doesn't matter if I reboot because the pop-up comes every time. Then when I close out that pop-up box I can use BIAB - so I guess it is inaccurate to say the program crashes. Next, I load up a song and try to record a MIDI track by playing on the Casio keyboard. That is when the program will stop recording the instant I play the same note rapidly, even just 4 or 5 times in a row. Note: This only happens with the Casio Keyboard. When I switch over to the Roland Keyboard, even though I get the "ACCESS VIOLATION" on start-up of BIAB 2024, I am able to record MIDI without it stopping when I play a few notes rapidly in succession like the Casio does. Therefore, I do not believe the "ACCESS VIOLATION" error is the key to the problem of the program stopping during MIDI recording. It is purely an issue with a MIDI signal being sent by the Casio when notes are played rapidly that tells the recording to STOP. Also, this STOP MIDI message is only "heard" in BIAB 2024, not in the 4 other early versions I have tested using the Casio keyboard.

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