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#798728 02/06/24 03:37 AM
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Jan R Offline OP
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Is it possible to change chord bass notes just for the bass instrument only and leave the piano chords unchanged? Like the first four measures of My Funny Valentine: Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A.

Last edited by Jan R; 02/06/24 06:39 AM.

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Originally Posted by Jan R
Is it possible to change chord bass notes just for the bass instrument only and leave the piano chords unchanged? Like the first four measures of My Funny Valentine: Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A.
As far as I could tell, the slash chord is only supposed to affect the bass note.

There is a Song Settings Option:
Ignore Slash Root of Slash Chords (eg C/E), except Bass Track: If this is set, the RealTracks other than the Bass track will not play the slash root of chords. For example, the RealTracks will play C instead of C/E.

What version of BiaB are you using?

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Also, are you using RealTracks or MIDI?


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RealTracks


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Thanks for the tip, but B bass note with C root note in chord is not what I want. I can live with the situation that the piano chords will change and follow the slash bass notes.

Is it possible to use piano chords without the root note in case of changing the bass note?


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I am using BiaB 2024. I discovered that every time I generate th song the chords have or have not the slash bass note. So: Cm6/A have A bass note in the chord or C note as root.


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It might depend on whether you have Natural Arrangement turned on. In this progression, there is such a strong downward movement in the bass line that most musicians would recognize it in the last chord and play the A in the bass, even without the slash root. BIAB has some intelligence and does the same.


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Originally Posted by Jan R
Is it possible to change chord bass notes just for the bass instrument only and leave the piano chords unchanged? Like the first four measures of My Funny Valentine: Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A.

I am not entirely sure what you are doing here, but you are playing my song. grin (well kinda...). So let me pipe in a little on this topic to see if I can muddy the waters a bit more.

I don't feel these chords will do justice to the arrangement. I have attached below the Rogers/Hart chordsheet. I believe the authors intended to use chord Inversions over the first four bars and not slash chords as BIAB interprets them. And yes, I am a strong believe that slash chords are different than chord inversion (we have had this discussion here in the forum in the past, and no one has conviced me otherwise). The left hand of the piano player should be playing the Root note irregardless of the inversion in the right hand.

The chart shows the left hand playing the bass note - which is the root of the chord. In this case, C over each chord. While the right hand is playing a four note chord based on the first or second inversion. I don't think a BIAB RT piano can or will play with these specific voicings either with or without the slash chords. However, I believe a midi version can to the job.

Having said this, I understand we are likely talking about what does the Bass Player do with these. BIAB RT bass will play what ever notes the artist plays when he sees the chord - which will not necessarily be what you want and certainly will not be the notes shown in the slash chord. So in terms of what the bass should play for this tune, I need to defer to our Bass Players. Perhaps one of them can weigh in on this topic.

I guess the bottom line is BIAB is not really intended to reproduce any song with specific neuances, licks, runs or motiffs. But we try anyway. I just don't feel that the / chords in BIAB help in this case. I do see the option pointed for the slash chords to only effect the bass player, but I have never used that.

Sorry if this is of no help at all.

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Thank you for your extensive explanation. I understand. I am an amature and play music for hobby. I play piano/hammond and jazz guitar with Biab as accompanist. For piano and hammond I use the bass and drums parts, playing guitar I use bass, drums and piano parts.

Last edited by Jan R; 02/06/24 11:25 AM.

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What is the key signature of your song?

BiaB does not allow a slash note for a chord in the key signature. Not sure if this is related. For example, if the key signature was F, it will not allow F/Eb.

EDIT:
Matt: Thanks for the correction. Yes F/F (it was too early in the morning here crazy) The above should have stated F/F.

Last edited by AudioTrack; 02/06/24 06:08 PM.

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Edit: post was fixed.

And Dan, I assume the chords give originally were from some Internet source pretending to give accurate chord changes. There are far too many of those out there.

Last edited by Matt Finley; 02/06/24 08:17 PM. Reason: The typo was fixed. No need for my prior comment.

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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
And Dan, I assume the chords give originally were from some Internet source pretending to give accurate chord changes. There are far too many of those out there.
Lets assume these chords were are correct (or someone thought they were). And lets assume Key of Eb (as in the chart).
That gives us:
Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A <-- Notice this is actually a Cm69 - nice!

The bass notes of A and B are not in the Key of Eb! They would be Ab and Bb. I can only imagine how those bass notes would clash with the scale. But who knows what some jazz bass guy may comeup with. crazy


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Originally Posted by DrDan
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
And Dan, I assume the chords give originally were from some Internet source pretending to give accurate chord changes. There are far too many of those out there.
Lets assume these chords were are correct (or someone thought they were). And lets assume Key of Eb (as in the chart).
That gives us:
Cm - CmMaj7/B - Cm7/Bb - Cm6/A <-- Notice this is actually a Cm69 - nice!

The bass notes of A and B are not in the Key of Eb! They would be Ab and Bb. I can only imagine how those bass notes would clash with the scale. But who knows what some jazz bass guy may comeup with. crazy

The bass notes would not clash with the chords as they are in the chords, thus it would have nothing to do with the scale, i.e. CmMaj7 = C-Eb-G-B and Cm7 = C-Eb-G-Bb . That is like saying G# in an E chord clashes with the key of C, think of the song 5 foot 2. Or am I reading you wrong? Note that bass line, B-Bb-A, can be a typical half-step bass line.

Also Cm6/A = C-Eb-G-A so how do you get a Cm69 (C-Eb-A-D) out of it?

Last edited by MarioD; 02/06/24 04:07 PM.

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Dan,

In the key of C minor, B and A are melodic tones. They feature in the descending melodic minor mode of C minor, and they are commonly found in descending movement in minor-key melodies.

This progression is similar to an arrangement I've seen of the song "Feelings" that goes... Em EmM7 Em7 Em6 C.

The semitone descending harmonic movement of E-D#-D-C#-C that's present in this progression is often given to the bass and written as...

Em - Em/D# - Em/D - Em/C# - C

My experience is that if the bass line uses the notes for descending, it's usually not necessary to double them in one of the upper harmony parts.

I don't know if this is useful information but I thought I'd pass it on in case it's useful.

--Noel


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Originally Posted by Noel96
.............................
This progression is similar to an arrangement I've seen of the song "Feelings" that goes... Em EmM7 Em7 Em6 C.

The semitone descending harmonic movement of E-D#-D-C#-C that's present in this progression is often given to the bass and written as...

Em - Em/D# - Em/D - Em/C# - C
.............................
--Noel

That also is the same type of progression that we used in Summertime, i.e. Am-AmMaj7-Am7-Am6 followed by Dm-DmMaj7-Dm7-Dm6 then E9-F9-E9. And like your scenario the bass added the various notes via a walk down while everyone else played the minor chord. It is a quite common chord progression.


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OK, you guys are double teaming me... smirk but I love it! Thanks for putting me in my place. There is no shame in my music game.
Ya, I was pretty focused on the Eb Major scale and did some of the math in my head.

Quote
Mario: The bass notes would not clash with the chords as they are in the chords, thus it would have nothing to do with the scale, i.e. CmMaj7 = C-Eb-G-B and Cm7 = C-Eb-G-Bb .

Also Cm6/A = C-Eb-G-A so how do you get a Cm69 (C-Eb-A-D) out of it?

CmMaj7 = C-Eb-G-B <-- Yes, and one of the bass notes in the progession is a B which is not in the Eb major scale. On review I now recognize the error of my ways. The mM chord is not in any major or natural minor scale. Just as this chord progression is based on a different scale than the Major or natural minor. My bad.

Second - Again,it is a Cm69 based on the notes, Root - C, Eb is the flat 3rd, A is the 6th, in the sheet music the G is omitted which leaves us with D which is the 9th - hence Cm69. That is how I got it. How correct I am still needs to be determined.

Quote
Noel: In the key of C minor, B and A are melodic tones.

Bingo, this is obviously an important point I missed. I will do better next time.

Thanks for keeping me honest. And by the way, this certainly is one of the most beautiful sounds ever written. I am glad we could look closer at this together. grin

Dan


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Originally Posted by MarioD
That also is the same type of progression that we used in Summertime, It is a quite common chord progression.

Yes, Excellent example, I played JJ's version of Summertime. But my understanding was that this is the Harmonic Minor not the melodic? Or it could be that asending/desending stuff Noel mentioned used to confuse us all. But I would argue that it is not necessarly a "common" progression since chords based on the major and natural minor scale are everywhere. grin

Dan


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Originally Posted by DrDan
................................

Second - Again,it is a Cm69 based on the notes, Root - C, Eb is the flat 3rd, A is the 6th, in the sheet music the G is omitted which leaves us with D which is the 9th - hence Cm69. That is how I got it. How correct I am still needs to be determined.
...............................
Dan

OK I'm lost, as usual! In the sheet music I have seen the G present. The same when playing chords. And yes you can leave the 5th out of the chord. However if you do leave the 5th out of the chord you get C-Eb-A. Where did you get the D?

In my world, right or wrong, Cm6 and Cm69 are two different chords and leaving out the 5th does not change the chord.

Last edited by MarioD; 02/06/24 06:09 PM.

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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Trevor, I think that's a typo. It won't allow the same slash root as the chord, like F/F, but your example can be entered.
Correct. I have amended the post.


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Originally Posted by MarioD
OK I'm lost, as usual! Where did you get the D?
Here it is?
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