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#801006 02/20/24 09:40 PM
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I'm trying to write out "Spain" by Chick Corea. How do I get a good Samba rhythm in Cut Time(2/2)?


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Funkifized #801043 02/21/24 06:36 AM
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I have 3 EXPANDED Samba styles that should work.

https://www.nortonmusic.com/styledemo.html#ss

Notes ♫


Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
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100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
Funkifized #801107 02/21/24 02:15 PM
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I used the Familiar Song Title filter in the StylePicker, and entered "chick corea spain" and it offered many styles, all 4/4 (but this can be adjusted in the Editable Notation window). I further filtered the search specifying "samba" - the top 5 results are:
_TRIPEAR (from Loops-with-Styles PAK 1)
_RAMBHA (from Xtra Styles PAK 11)
_HEATWAV (from Xtra Styles PAK 2)
=DOGS_BJ (from Realtracks Set 11)
DogSamba (from MIDI Styles Set 17)

(feel free to give this a try on your own installation of course)

Once you've chosen your Style, pop into the Editable Notation Window to adjust your time signature from 4/4 to 2/2, for Cut Time.

-Callie

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I think changing the time sign in the "editable notation" window will be the answer that I'm looking for.

Will the Real Tracks reflect this change, as well? Or does that not even matter in this instance? (I'm not near BIAB until at least tonight)


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Funkifized #801132 02/21/24 05:44 PM
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If you are looking for notation in Cut Time, while not perfect, this might get you a little closer.
(Don't worry that the Style Time Signature still shows as 4/4 after setting your song to 2/4)
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AudioTrack #801133 02/21/24 05:56 PM
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By the way, if you're looking at Spain, do check out Yohan Kim's version (he's about 14 years old when he performed this):



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AudioTrack #801143 02/21/24 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
If you are looking for notation in Cut Time, while not perfect, this might get you a little closer.
(Don't worry that the Style Time Signature still shows as 4/4 after setting your song to 2/4)
[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

So, I'm not sure how that all works. If I do what you've suggested, should I notate the melody in double time, with half notes equalling quarter notes, 8ths becoming 16ths, etc.?


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Funkifized #801158 02/21/24 08:35 PM
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Cut time, or Alla Breve is a meter time where each beat is a half-note (or minim) value, and there are two of these beats per bar.

I don't think that BiaB natively supports 2/2 time signatures. Certainly it can be notated in 4/4.


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Originally Posted by Callie - PG Music
I used the Familiar Song Title filter in the StylePicker, and entered "chick corea spain" and it offered many styles, all 4/4 (but this can be adjusted in the Editable Notation window). I further filtered the search specifying "samba" - the top 5 results are:
_TRIPEAR (from Loops-with-Styles PAK 1)
_RAMBHA (from Xtra Styles PAK 11)
_HEATWAV (from Xtra Styles PAK 2)
=DOGS_BJ (from Realtracks Set 11)
DogSamba (from MIDI Styles Set 17)

(feel free to give this a try on your own installation of course)

Once you've chosen your Style, pop into the Editable Notation Window to adjust your time signature from 4/4 to 2/2, for Cut Time.

-Callie

How do I adjust the tune sig to 2/2?


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Funkifized #801168 02/21/24 10:14 PM
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I've picked a Samba style, gone to Editable Notation window, found 2/2(cut time). However, no joy. Time sig in the main window still says 4/4, and for whatever reason, the notation doesn't work out with the chords correctly. What am I missing?

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Funkifized #801171 02/21/24 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Funkifized
I've picked a Samba style, gone to Editable Notation window, found 2/2(cut time). However, no joy. Time sig in the main window still says 4/4...

If it's the one shown below, this is the time signature of the Style. Changing the notation to a different time signature doesn't change the time signature that the Style was created in.
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AudioTrack #801172 02/21/24 10:37 PM
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Okay, give up. Given the lead sheet that I posted, how does one generate "Spain"?


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Funkifized #801173 02/21/24 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Funkifized
I've picked a Samba style, gone to Editable Notation window, found 2/2(cut time). However, no joy. Time sig in the main window still says 4/4, and for whatever reason, the notation doesn't work out with the chords correctly. What am I missing?
What does your notation look like? Is that what you have shown, or is that the notation from elsewhere that you are attempting to duplicate?


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Funkifized #801177 02/21/24 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Funkifized
Okay, give up. Given the lead sheet that I posted, how does one generate "Spain"?

Is this close to what you want?

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

Last edited by AudioTrack; 02/22/24 12:33 AM.

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AudioTrack #801185 02/22/24 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by Funkifized
Okay, give up. Given the lead sheet that I posted, how does one generate "Spain"?

Is this close to what you want?

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

I'm not understanding the reply. I entered the notation the way it's shown on the lead sheet, but it doesn't generate correctly. My question is, how can I generate this tune, which should use a cut time samba groove?


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Funkifized #801186 02/22/24 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Funkifized
Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Originally Posted by Funkifized
Okay, give up. Given the lead sheet that I posted, how does one generate "Spain"?

Is this close to what you want?

[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]

I'm not understanding the reply. I entered the notation the way it's shown on the lead sheet, but it doesn't generate correctly. My question is, how can I generate this tune, which should use a cut time samba groove?

Most step-entered notation will never sound the same as the music created by 'real musicians'. It will lack nuances that give it the human touch.

Is the problem that it sounds too rigid, too fast, too slow. Please explain what 'it doesn't generate correctly' means.


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AudioTrack #801190 02/22/24 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AudioTrack
Most step-entered notation will never sound the same as the music created by 'real musicians'. It will lack nuances that give it the human touch.
Aye, stepwise notation always sounds artificial, sometimes almost robotic. It lacks the subtle timing and touch/feel aspects.

I suspect the only sensible way to get the subtleties is to use MIDI from an real musician. In principle one could edit the piano roll, but that's hard work as one needs to make small adjustments to an awful lot of notes.

FWIW, I learned something about how BIAB works when I imported a MusicXML file of a Latin piece with syncopations and many short rests ... BIAB was just dropping the rests from the notation and even when I reinserted them manually, they would keep disappearing. In my case it was auto-hiding rests of a full 3/8 duration!

From another thread:
Originally Posted by Gordon Scott
I can only imagine that it's to hide subtle timing effects from the notation, i.e., when someone is playing ahead of or behind the beat. One doesn't want hundreds of 1/64 notes or rests all over the notation. If one looks at the underlying data for styles, it can look awful.
The notation in BIAB is normally, very sensibly, presented as it would be written, ignoring the subtleties of the played track.

Edit: BTW the omission of rests as per my imports can be controlled with an option "minimize rests", but of course it doesn't resolve the issue of stepwise/played input. A manual search should find it.

Last edited by Gordon Scott; 02/22/24 03:28 AM. Reason: addendum

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Gordon Scott #801194 02/22/24 03:53 AM
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Are we seriously arguing about the rigidness of step entry? Is no one understanding the problem here? The tune is in cut time! The time signature is wrong and can't be changed. The pulse of the song is wrong. Jesus, how does one enter the chords and melody, whether step entry or otherwise, so that the pulse is correct? Double the length of the notes and double the tempo of the tune? There seriously has to be a better way to deal with cut time. Is "Spain" not common enough a tune to warrant someone wanting to make a backing track?

This is like the twilight zone.


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Funkifized #801197 02/22/24 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Funkifized
Are we seriously arguing about the rigidness of step entry? Is no one understanding the problem here? The tune is in cut time! The time signature is wrong and can't be changed. The pulse of the song is wrong. Jesus, how does one enter the chords and melody, whether step entry or otherwise, so that the pulse is correct? Double the length of the notes and double the tempo of the tune? There seriously has to be a better way to deal with cut time. Is "Spain" not common enough a tune to warrant someone wanting to make a backing track?

This is like the twilight zone.

Quote
Jesus, how does one enter the chords and melody, whether step entry or otherwise, so that the pulse is correct?
That part can easily be undertaken. Forget step entry. Just connect your keyboard to your BiaB MIDI input, press Record and just play the song. When you play it back, it will be exactly as you have performed it, note-for-note, nuances and all.

Other solutions are above my pay-grade (which, by the way is free).

Another suggestion is to try support@pgmusic.com

Let us know how you go.
Good luck!


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Funkifized #801205 02/22/24 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Funkifized
Double the length of the notes and double the tempo of the tune? There seriously has to be a better way to deal with cut time.
BIAB's time signatures are all constructed from some subset and/or combination of 4/4 time. There are workarounds, but they're imperfect, e.g., 5/4 is done as a pair of bars 3/4 + 2/4.

On the Song Settings dialog there are options to allow some interpretation, notably the options "allow RealTracks Half-time/Double-time" (and also the general use of triplets for swing, 6/8 and the like). That may help your quest.


Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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