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I dislike smart tools as I find them confusing. A smart tool cursor is great for a user with experience with editing tracks in general, experienced with the software and familiar with the tracks in a song project. But I'm a novice at editing and find a smart tool is a distraction. I spend more time worrying about what tool is engaged on the smart tool. Is the smart tool set up to perform the task I want or is it in the wrong mode of operation. Generally speaking I perform tasks sequentially so a smart tool doesn't work for me.
My opinion is users new to track editing in general or new to Band-in-a-Box will find a smart tool a distraction.
However a smart tool really speeds up editing when a user has experience editing and uses a smart tool a lot.
For those reasons I hope that a Band-in-a-Box smart tool can quickly and easily be enabled and disabled as the user desires. For example an enable/disable toggle button on an editing tools toolbar.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Jim.
+1...
i agree with an option to turn them off.
happiness
om
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"My opinion is users new to track editing in general or new to Band-in-a-Box will find a smart tool a distraction."
Cakewalk people, including me love the tool. Why would you want to click around, finding tools, if the smart tool will "know" exactly what you want to do. I find it indispensable and a huge time saver. Jim, perhaps you didn't give it a chance? I tried most DAWs on the market. Cakewalk has the best smart tool hands down. You have Cakewalk. Spend 10-15 minutes with it, see if this will change your view.
"I hope that a Band-in-a-Box smart tool can quickly and easily be enabled and disabled as the user desires" - That exactly how it works in Cakewalk. +1
P.S. Smart tool doesn't prevent you working sequentially. You are not doing 2-3-5 tasks at once. Meaning, if you do selection, you can continue doing 20 separate selections and when you need to move track, you just point it on a different part of the track. In any case, I feel that it is a matter of taste, but I suggest giving it a chance.
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Thanks Misha but I've tried Cakewalk's smart tool and Audacity's multi-tool. I haven't taken a liking to either one. I guess I prefer selecting an editing tool rather than have the tool selection automatically change based on cursor position in a track. I "stole" the idea of enabling/disabling a smart tool from Cakewalk.  Both Cakewalk and Audacity have editing tool keyboard shortcuts and edit tool toolbars. The keyboard shortcut method of choosing an editing tool seems to work best for me but I really like having an edit toolbar available for use too.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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The Songs, Styles, RealTracks, RealDrums, UserTracks, MIDI SuperTracks, MIDI Tracks, MIDI Soloists, Melodists and Titles tabs each have a bunch of columns. I would like to see in the MultiPicker Library tabs listed above a pop-up hint detailing what data is in a column when my cursor hovers over a column header. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30089&filename=Clipboard07.jpg)
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Chord Sheet and Track View Header context menus: - Simplifies to pure context of where the mouse is. - MP Library has long sense replaced the needs for much of existing context menu options. (many just open MP anyway) - Removes things that are better supported in other places. - Removes some EOL things. - Not perfect as a few things could come or go in main and sub-context menus. - A 1) Track Event/Clip area, 2) Timeline area, and 3) NEW "Liner Chord Timeline" area in Track View, context menus are pending mockups... ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30090&filename=Chord and Track Context menus.jpg)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Here’s a rare case where I do like the older ways. I’m not a fan of a smart tool. I prefer a few tool icons side by side, and I’ll pick the one I want.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Here’s a rare case where I do like the older ways. I’m not a fan of a smart tool. I prefer a few tool icons side by side, and I’ll pick the one I want. Yes I agree. Edit: I might have been a bit hasty. I have not really used any smart tools in DAWs or music software so I don´t really know. It will probably be fine as long as it is intuitive (my first reaction to "smart tools" got me to think about my Android mobile and it drives me crazy).
Last edited by shlind; 01/30/25 01:31 PM.
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Here’s a rare case where I do like the older ways. I’m not a fan of a smart tool. I prefer a few tool icons side by side, and I’ll pick the one I want. Yes I agree. I agree too
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Here’s a rare case where I do like the older ways. I’m not a fan of a smart tool. I prefer a few tools icons side by side, and I’ll pick the one I want. Use drop-down menu for old icons/func. to save the space of main screen
Last edited by Vincente; 01/29/25 09:30 AM.
WIN11 OS build 23H2, 16MB, 1TG SSD.
BIAB2024, build 1113, MegaPaK
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Cakewalk has it both ways. A configurable Smart tool and standard tools. I don't believe it was suggested anywhere in the thread to replace one for another. I agree that both methods are needed. I kindly, ask not voting down something, that if by a very slim chance will get done - will not change your habits. Try to be constructive and suggest a feature or two, or improvement that you do want to see.
Thank you.
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Most of the time, I support change requests if they are optional. People sometimes need time to adapt. An example of how PG Music handled this well was the 2018 new GUI, leaving the older one available with a toggle Ctrl+T.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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In general, we have the same number of posts as the original PGM sponsored UI thread (~100) before a PGM reply, only divided into 5 sub threads. This gives PGM a next level detail on 5 out of the 25 ideas in the original thread.
There is still only the top ~10 contributors offering opinions and ~5 offering ideas.
There is the traditional divide found in the forum of "no change needed" and "radical change needed" camps. However, there are many suggestions not expanded on.
PGM has remained silent on their pinned sub threads as well.
If they want improved input, they will have to speak up.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Smart tools are used in lots of DAWs, IMO it's a modern standard that can dramatically improve the workflow if implemented well.
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Smart tools are used in lots of DAWs, IMO it's a modern standard that can dramatically improve the workflow if implemented well. In Studio One Pro the smart tools have numbers 1 on up as key switches for each smart tool. You can also select each smart tool by right clicking. Hopefully one or the other or both can be implemented in BiaB.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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The menus have to be streamlined. For example how many copy and paste options do we really need. IMHO the MS methods are all we need, i.e. right click copy and paste and Ctrt C and V.
Others have already mentioned my other thoughts.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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i think this thread and others re bb gui illustrate clearly what one person wants another might not. and theres nothing the matter with that. and i note the wider group of bb users has yet to comment...
which i hoped would occur rather than a few of us.
its a problem lots of devs wrestle with...ie how to make the most users happy.
correct me if i'm wrong but i think the above illustrates how important it is for any new gui to be very VERY user configurable.
even tho this might bloat the bb exe....and i really hope pg can pull it off without the new gui being 'cluttered'.
for example i like music apps that offer track views whereby i can maximise waveform real estate. a reason i like reaps v2 and rb.
i dont enjoy environments where i have to do a ton of mouse moves to do things....flitting around many different views.
i beg pg to make the new bb tracks view 'creation central' to make users more productive. in reaps and rb i can do most of my work in tracks view.
obviously the bb menus need a lot of re-thinking.
ive used bb for many years yet i still get confused tween 'is this feature in track actions' for example or 'do i use the top menus.'...????
very confuseing. even more so for a new user.
as to preferences they havent bothered me much but i can see why prefs might cause some confusion.
to be fair i think such was the result of many user requests over the years like other aspects of bb.
i'll throw this out there as its the 'elephant in the room' imho.
will you all be happy with a highly user configurable gui EVEN IF the exe might bloat more ? ie a user can basically design their own gui any way they want. useing a new bb gui user design module feature.
i'm curious re the answers.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/29/25 06:01 PM.
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OM, yes, I think you are correct. When a group of fewer than 10 could not agree, and now it’s been thrown out to the whole user base, I don’t hold out a lot of hope for uniform agreement. There are two ways forward. First, acknowledge that not everyone is going to agree, and second, make the interface configurable with lots of options. I’ll take the bloat to make that happen.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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OM, what you are saying makes little sense to me. Maybe it's the ESL thing.
It seems that you don't have the confidence in PGM. Nobody has to wrestle with anybody. They just have to modernize to the best of their ability, conforming to proven standards as much as possible rather than confronting them. Not sacrificing the future of BIAB to a dozen or two vocal users that are in favor of redundancy for the sake of very questionable personal comforts. Potentially losing hundreds if not thousands of newcomers.
Speaking to you directly. Instead of long write ups, give a clear suggestion for a feature or improvement. In the spirit of good manners, one specific feature / improvement per post. That is what is asked of these threads started by PGM staff. There are so many other forum sections to start a casual discussion...
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Transplanting panel view suggestion for Bar Settings - F5 from older conversation. The limit set for the amount of available tracks are 24. Which is quite a good number for arranging software. In my illustration, you can see that all 24 tracks comfortably fit full size screen. I believe F5 is an excellent candidate for a panel, as current execution is severely flawed with a separate drop down for "non legacy" tracks and should be redesigned for ease of use and notion that "All Tracks Are Equal". This suggestion also includes shortening Track names for viewing purposes to bare minimum. For example: "2429: Bass, Electric". Ideally, panel should be "Detachable" & free floating on demand. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/Nf8qXX9W/panelbar.jpg)
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 01/29/25 07:26 PM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
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PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
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Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
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