before i do that - but thanks Charlie - choosing a Hi q patch seems to load ok from the dialogue I get double clicking the patch dialogue but the output port on the mixer changes to S1 which I can't find anywhere on the right hand side of the mixer

the output meters show output but there's no sound - any idea of where it's going? the edirol hypercanvas shows as the default synth but RB seems to be loading the sforzando somewhere it just doesn't show up on the vst dialogue and the S1 port is going somewhere where its not sounding

and the patch description doesn't change in the tracks window