there are a gazillion YouTube jazz "music-playalong" channels which are little more than jazz standards rendered in BIAB - often with a video of the song chart chords as in BB,. But even if it was just the audio it's super easy to tell when a YouTube content creator has created their jazz backing tracks in BIAB instead ofby themselves using real double bassists - WHY? because the way BIAB stitches to gather real tracks MIDI bass parts fails to replicate how a real pro does it.
here is Woody
PG - plea finally fix this, maybe doable via neural nets LLMs etc now ?
Last edited by nonchai; 06/25/2409:30 AM.
Big Sur, Mac Mini i7 2018, 64GB RAM 2TB SSD Yamaha PSR SX 900, Cubase, Ableton, UNIFY, OPUS ORCHESTRATOR, MASCHINE, Vienna Ensemble Pro ,Audiofuse, L6 HELI, KOMPLETE, Komplete Kontrol 88 Lockdown beard, podgy face, beer belly, bald patch ... yadda yadda
My suspicion about why arranger keyboards don't do it well even when pre-programmed with the changes, is that the sequencer just sends each chord into the arranger engine at the right time ... the arranger engine remains without the "coming up next" cue.
It's harder to understand/appreciate why BIAB may not do well as it might, because it does know what and when the next chord will be wanted. Maybe it's just an expectation thing. Possibly even knowing the chords remains limiting because the chords don't say where the melody will go, though contra-motion is common enough. There are supposedly walking bass styles and "Chord Options" which specify walking bass. I have to say that I personally haven't thought very much about how well the bass behaves/responds.
I really think this doesn't need neural-networks, LLMs or any AI-type tools as the sequences are generally pretty logical.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
I think register jumping is the primary reason someone might complain about the bass line constructed by BIAB.
When you stitch together snippets of audio of varying lengths, how can the program know that the bass line ended on a low pitch, but the next snippet has the bass in a higher register?
Although I cannot play bass, I have played the bass book in a show using my wind controller. Ironically, if I hit the wrong octave button, all too easy to do on my old Yamaha wind controller, I get the same problem I described above. The note choice is right, but the pitch is not, because I'm in the wrong octave.
User Dzjang (spelling?) has made some technical posts here about what the bass chooses to play on complex jazz tunes, based on some careful testing. I think there is an issue there as well.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I'm actually impressed by what today's arranger keyboards can do. But I can also understand that accomplished musicians want even more. And in the coming years they will get more.
Composing on an arranger keyboard and seamlessly transferring an arrangement to your DAW for further production is likely coming soon. It’s not hard to imagine a keyboard that would allow the musician to compose a complete song by typing-in or voice activating a chord progression. He would then choose from a variety of AI-assisted styles and genres.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
This is one area where AI is likely to improve performance.
Straight “if this, then that” machine programming cannot know what experienced bassists will choose otherwise.
Although I’ll have a bass track when I export my BIAB projects, it’s never the one that the final version will have—ever. I’ve been playing since 1966, professionally since 1969. If I insert a little of, say… the Prometheus Overture or Sousa into a country or metal track, I know why it sounds good but there’s no machine or AI that could anticipate that.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
That was a really enjoyable video. Like Woody's approach and way of communicating his analysis. Agree that AI can/will improve performance in this area, and no doubt quite a few more. In the meantime, since I've been meandering with BiaB faking it for the last 30 years, think I'm good until those changes come. Ha!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
I think register jumping is the primary reason someone might complain about the bass line constructed by BIAB. When you stitch together snippets of audio of varying lengths, how can the program know that the bass line ended on a low pitch, but the next snippet has the bass in a higher register?
Agreed!
Big Sur, Mac Mini i7 2018, 64GB RAM 2TB SSD Yamaha PSR SX 900, Cubase, Ableton, UNIFY, OPUS ORCHESTRATOR, MASCHINE, Vienna Ensemble Pro ,Audiofuse, L6 HELI, KOMPLETE, Komplete Kontrol 88 Lockdown beard, podgy face, beer belly, bald patch ... yadda yadda
This is one area where AI is likely to improve performance.
Straight “if this, then that” machine programming cannot know what experienced bassists will choose otherwise.
Although I’ll have a bass track when I export my BIAB projects, it’s never the one that the final version will have—ever. I’ve been playing since 1966, professionally since 1969. If I insert a little of, say… the Prometheus Overture or Sousa into a country or metal track, I know why it sounds good but there’s no machine or AI that could anticipate that.
For sure AI might help - but it's also something that could be done via conventional well programmed algorithms - ie code! Why? because the "rules" needed for this - in music - and taught in music - especially jazz schools - are very clear and understandable,. Just like voice leading, closures and the rest.
the link between music and "maths" has been known and discussed for many centuries!
Last edited by nonchai; 07/30/2403:34 AM.
Big Sur, Mac Mini i7 2018, 64GB RAM 2TB SSD Yamaha PSR SX 900, Cubase, Ableton, UNIFY, OPUS ORCHESTRATOR, MASCHINE, Vienna Ensemble Pro ,Audiofuse, L6 HELI, KOMPLETE, Komplete Kontrol 88 Lockdown beard, podgy face, beer belly, bald patch ... yadda yadda
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